Firm Stance will pay long term Dividends

[murphster]

I am sure that a lot of Carlton supporters are as dissapointed as i am that we did not take 24 & 33 for Thornton however it now places Thornton with 1 of 2 decisions,

Choice 1:resign with Carlton and continue playing senior football,

Choice 2 : go in the PSD where we will redraft him defenietly now that Polak, Gardiner or any other descent players that may of been in the PSD are no longer going to be there, although taking that route he will not be playing senior football for the rest of his contract therefore ending his senior football career, a no brainer for Thornton IMO.

Carlton have sent a strong message that blackmail will not be tolerated at our Great Cub.

Our biggest priority now has to be resigning Russell, and for Port to have the gall to offer a 3rd round pick for him shows they thought that they could screw us over while we are down as payback for Nick Stevens, but with Hartlett, Gibbs and Kernahan getting in his ear and Pagan sitting down with him and telling him he will play a significant number of senior games next year as well as the other young players encouraging him to stay, plus the fact that he has no chance of getting to Port via the PSD i think him resigning is a given.

Not my ideal situation but considering the collusion and blackmail that was waged against us, we have made a bold statement in terms of don't mess with Carlton or you will lose out, this stance will hold us in good stead in future trade periods and gained us back some of our lost respect.

A win in terms of our future dealings with other clubs in later trade periods, as they now no we will go all the way.

Trust me Carlton have the whip hand now and a 90% chance that both will resign rather than choose the alternative.

Right now i am more than happy with where we are at although things could change i still think we will be the big winners this year and for years to come during trade week.

The Trade team have gotton us into the strongest position possible considering the circumstances we where faced with on day 1

 

[no. 4]

The fact we have pick 1 in the PSD will most likely scare both Thornton and Russell into re-signing. It's unlikely either of them would get past Carlton in the PSD unless both don't re-sign and then Russell will get past us. They might as well both re-sign so we can go for someone else in the PSD and try and strengthen the squad.

 

[SA Blue]

JR is a bir of the forgotten person in all of this. While we have not seen the best of him, and he may not turn out to be great, I wouldn't have wanted to lose him to pick 39.

IMO Port were never going to give pick 23, so we need to get in his ear and get him to re-sign. Home sickness can be overcome.

 

[BlueVision]

Well said Murphster - my only worry is that in a article I read somewhere stated that the teams in front of Port have indicated they would not draft Russell in the PSD giving him passage to Port.

 

[Beckers]

Carlton have sent a strong message that blackmail will not be tolerated at our Great Cub.

....but that deprevation of a players liberty is?

 

[murphster]

Well said Murphster - my only worry is that in a article I read somewhere stated that the teams in front of Port have indicated they would not draft Russell in the PSD giving him passage to Port.

Let me tell you any of the clubs before Port would snap Russell up in an instant, a no9 draft pick from 2 years ago that is coming along nicely (remeber not all players step up in there first or second years) some take longer to develop of which there is 100's over the years. Essendon for 1 need players with pace and foot skills that can play half back and then move into the middle later and the fact they are getting him for next to nothing, mark my words he will not get to Port's pick.

 

[AndrewJo]

I am sure that a lot of Carlton supporters are as dissapointed as i am that we did not take 24 & 33 for Thornton however it now places Thornton with 1 of 2 decisions,

Choice 1:resign with Carlton and continue playing senior football,

Choice 2 : go in the PSD where we will redraft him defenietly now that Polak, Gardiner or any other descent players that may of been in the PSD are no longer going to be there, although taking that route he will not be playing senior football for the rest of his contract therefore ending his senior football career, a no brainer for Thornton IMO.

Carlton have sent a strong message that blackmail will not be tolerated at our Great Cub.

Our biggest priority now has to be resigning Russell, and for Port to have the gall to offer a 3rd round pick for him shows they thought that they could screw us over while we are down as payback for Nick Stevens, but with Hartlett, Gibbs and Kernahan getting in his ear and Pagan sitting down with him and telling him he will play a significant number of senior games next year as well as the other young players encouraging him to stay, plus the fact that he has no chance of getting to Port via the PSD i think him resigning is a given.

Not my ideal situation but considering the collusion and blackmail that was waged against us, we have made a bold statement in terms of don't mess with Carlton or you will lose out, this stance will hold us in good stead in future trade periods and gained us back some of our lost respect.

A win in terms of our future dealings with other clubs in later trade periods, as they now no we will go all the way.

I am just interested in the PSD. Don't the players going into the PSD nominate their terms to be given a contract? Therefore Thornton nominates his contract that he wants. If Carlton pick him up they have to pay what he has demanded. How can you give that as a win for Carlton? They have been screwed by a player. If they don't take him and he is picked up by HAwthorn they are still losers. I think it is a win for Thornton.
On top of that they lose Russell in the PSD. You call that a good result??

 

[BlueFeaver]

The question that Jordan is going to have to answer is,"Can he get to Port in the PSD?
His reason for leaving is home sickness, chances are he would be drafted by another Vic club before Ports selection.
The club should say: Alright we know your a bit home sick and that you want to play more senior footy. How about you re-sign, have a big pre-season. Then play your guts out next year, after all we have no doubt you can play senior footy. If at the end of next year you still want to return home, we will do our very best to make that happen. All we ask is for you to give 100% effort for the next 12 months.

This may sound silly but I think he is frustrated more than home sick, it's a natural human condition to find a easy excuse.
My theory is he will have a good year and start enjoying his footy at CFC and will want to stay with a bunch of kids near the same age. As to date, I don't think he feels part of the team, he is after all pretty shy!

 

[kolchak]

Carlton have sent a strong message that blackmail will not be tolerated at our Great Cub.

I agree with this sentiment, but the easiest way out may have been the best option.

 

[btdg]

I am just interested in the PSD. Don't the players going into the PSD nominate their terms to be given a contract? Therefore Thornton nominates his contract that he wants. If Carlton pick him up they have to pay what he has demanded. How can you give that as a win for Carlton? They have been screwed by a player. If they don't take him and he is picked up by HAwthorn they are still losers. I think it is a win for Thornton.
On top of that they lose Russell in the PSD. You call that a good result??

Its an appalling result, your right. How anyone fails to recognise this is beyond me. Not only that, but we could have used our PSD pick to get another player to the club - now we use it on a guy we could have had anyway, just to prove a point?

Kind of explains why we are the bottom team, really

 

[SMOO]

....but that deprevation of a players liberty is?

Pot Kettle Black again. Jade Rawlings? You played the draft to its fullest quirks, well done, and got wot you wanted. So what is wrong with what we have done? PLay it, if it pays off, all good, if not well, thats the draft for you.

 

[murphster]

I am just interested in the PSD. Don't the players going into the PSD nominate their terms to be given a contract? Therefore Thornton nominates his contract that he wants. If Carlton pick him up they have to pay what he has demanded. How can you give that as a win for Carlton? They have been screwed by a player. If they don't take him and he is picked up by HAwthorn they are still losers. I think it is a win for Thornton.
On top of that they lose Russell in the PSD. You call that a good result??

First of all do you think Thornton, who will only further alienate Carlton. by nominating for the pre season draft knowing full well that carlton will re draft him regardless, and then having been further alienated Carlton might just let him play out the season for the Bullants Reserves in affect ending his career, i know i would be resigning to save my career.

And as i said previously Russell can go into the preseason draft if he wants to play for essendon or numerous other clubs ahead of port in the PSD pecking order, or he can resign with Carlton with the proviso that he gets more senior games and he gets to continue to play with the friends he has made since arriving at carlton 2 years ago.

Trust me Carlton have the whip hand now and a 90% chance that both will resign rather than choose the alternative.

Right now i am more than happy with where we are at although things could change i still think we will be the big winners this year and for years to come during trade week.

The Trade team have gotton us into the strongest position possible considering the circumstances we where faced with on day 1

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

....but that deprevation of a players liberty is?

Deprivation of liberty? Ha. He can nominate for the National Draft, he can quit the AFL for a season and try again. He is not handcuffed to the grandstand.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Its an appalling result, your right. How anyone fails to recognise this is beyond me. Not only that, but we could have used our PSD pick to get another player to the club - now we use it on a guy we could have had anyway, just to prove a point?

Kind of explains why we are the bottom team, really

And if they both re-sign and we get to use our PSD pick? What will that 'kinda explain'?

When people express frustration about how others fail to recognise the same situation they recognise, they sometimes are expressing their view of the current picture as they see it. The ones they are frustrated with realise it isn't over yet and we can still have a win from the situation. If both re-sign, we have won, stuck to our guns and gained some credibility.

After the spoon last year, people bemoaned the fact that we hadn't used our PSD leverage to attract a decent player. This year, we have utilised the PSD brilliantly to potentially retain a player we felt we couldn't afford to lose and weren't going to get a fair trade for, and people still complain.

If it all blows up on us, at least we kept some pride intact while losing debatable draft picks. If it all pans out for us, quite a few supporters are going to have some serious egg on their faces.

Honestly, who likes seeing Tarrant earn pick 8 while Thornton best earned pick 24, and Hay earns two picks better than that? Who would have jumped at Port's offer of pick 39 for a top 10 draft pick who has at least been developing in a forward direction and who could still realise that potential?

 

[btdg]

And if they both re-sign and we get to use our PSD pick? What will that 'kinda explain'?

When people express frustration about how others fail to recognise the same situation they recognise, they sometimes are expressing their view of the current picture as they see it. The ones they are frustrated with realise it isn't over yet and we can still have a win from the situation. If both re-sign, we have won, stuck to our guns and gained some credibility.

After the spoon last year, people bemoaned the fact that we hadn't used our PSD leverage to attract a decent player. This year, we have utilised the PSD brilliantly to potentially retain a player we felt we couldn't afford to lose and weren't going to get a fair trade for, and people still complain.

If it all blows up on us, at least we kept some pride intact while losing debatable draft picks. If it all pans out for us, quite a few supporters are going to have some serious egg on their faces.

Honestly, who likes seeing Tarrant earn pick 8 while Thornton best earned pick 24, and Hay earns two picks better than that? Who would have jumped at Port's offer of pick 39 for a top 10 draft pick who has at least been developing in a forward direction and who could still realise that potential?

If they both re-sign, the best case scenario is we re-sign them for slightly more than they are worth. In the mean-time, which players are available in the PSD? No-one significant at this stage, with the biggest obvious target (Polak) gone. We couldn't strike a deal there, though, because we were "brilliantly using our pick in the PSD to potentially retain a player we felt we couldn't afford to lose and weren't going to get a fair trade for".

Lets face it, if these guys wanted to play for Carlton, and we wanted them that badly, we could have re-signed them this week anyway. If it all blows up, we've lost 2 players for nothing. If it all works out, we're exactly where we were at the end of last season - rock bottom. From where we are, it just makes more sense to take 80 cents in the dollar, rather than gamble and lose it all - we just don't have the player depth to lose guys for nothing.

And regardless of whether they re-sign or not, Hawthorn and Port have shown other clubs that you can target our players, and potentially get them for nothing; no risk of giving up a second round draft pick who could end up a star and make you look like a fool down the track. If we don't deal at all, clubs will continue to make plays for our guys in the knowledge that in the worst case scenario, they don't have anything to lose. Best case scenario - they get a talented player for nothing...

And there is no way we can use last year's trade for Hay as a basis for comparison for what a fair trade is. On North's part, it was arguably the worst trade ever made! At least in the Tarrant situation, Freo have managed to get some compensation for losing Polak (who could have gone for nothing) - not only that, but they got potentially the best player in the deal (Tarrant). Richmond filled a gaping need, and Collingwood got a great draft pick. Everyone has a chance to win there. We have no chance to win - end of story

 

[Johnny_3]

I am sure that a lot of Carlton supporters are as dissapointed as i am that we did not take 24 & 33 for Thornton however it now places Thornton with 1 of 2 decisions,

Choice 1:resign with Carlton and continue playing senior football,

Choice 2 : go in the PSD where we will redraft him defenietly now that Polak, Gardiner or any other descent players that may of been in the PSD are no longer going to be there, although taking that route he will not be playing senior football for the rest of his contract therefore ending his senior football career, a no brainer for Thornton IMO.

Carlton have sent a strong message that blackmail will not be tolerated at our Great Cub.

Our biggest priority now has to be resigning Russell, and for Port to have the gall to offer a 3rd round pick for him shows they thought that they could screw us over while we are down as payback for Nick Stevens, but with Hartlett, Gibbs and Kernahan getting in his ear and Pagan sitting down with him and telling him he will play a significant number of senior games next year as well as the other young players encouraging him to stay, plus the fact that he has no chance of getting to Port via the PSD i think him resigning is a given.

Not my ideal situation but considering the collusion and blackmail that was waged against us, we have made a bold statement in terms of don't mess with Carlton or you will lose out, this stance will hold us in good stead in future trade periods and gained us back some of our lost respect.

A win in terms of our future dealings with other clubs in later trade periods, as they now no we will go all the way.

Trust me Carlton have the whip hand now and a 90% chance that both will resign rather than choose the alternative.

Right now i am more than happy with where we are at although things could change i still think we will be the big winners this year and for years to come during trade week.

The Trade team have gotton us into the strongest position possible considering the circumstances we where faced with on day 1

i think trade week was win win,, there is absolutely no chance at all that if both players resign that they'll be getting to there allocated clubs no matter what the other clubs say there not stupid either (wait scratch that, maybye essendon)... i think the club defiently thought of this before there no trade bargaining and it will pay off. Hopefully they both resign before the PSD so we can have a crack at another player eg ferguson

 

[sput1956]

Congratulations on the way your club held its nerve in trade week.

I am confident they will both re-sign.

 

[Blue Thunder]

Cogratulations on the way your club held its nerve in trade week.

I am confident they will both re-sign.

Thanks Sput - it's good to receive support from other supporters. I also think it is the right approach long term.

Also well done on North not trading the early picks this year, in such a strong draft I think you guy's will really benefit from picking up some young talent.

 

[sput1956]

No worries.

Just remember the little guys when you guys get big again.

 

[Blue Thunder]

No worries.

Just remember the little guys when you guys get big again.

Yeah might be a little while though

 

[trueblue_91]

Congratulations on the way your club held its nerve in trade week.

I am confident they will both re-sign.

Thanx Sput you don't usaully complement us so this must be something special.

And you guys also handled it pretty well by keeping ur draft picks and ull now aquire a gun in gibbs hansen or gumby

 

[mediumsizered]

The most important outcome of the decision not to trade either Thornton or Russell is that we have bought ourselves two months in which to convince both boys to stay.

As I understand it, Fev had a chat and lunch with T-Bird yesterday and you can guarantee many of the club's leaders as well as some of the youngsters will be having a chat and some lunch with T-Bird & JR over the coming weeks.

In addition pre-season training will commence for most clubs in early November and this will be a further opportunity for the players to remind T-Bird & JR that they are wanted at the club. As well, particularly for JR, any pre-season training missed as a result of any standoff will be detrimental for their prospects of having a good season next year, whether at Carlton or anywhere else.

IMO the club have done the right thing by ensuring there is every opportunity to keep these two in the Navy Blue & White. Once you trade them, there is no going back.

 

[LuvMyHawks]

Well done for sticking to your guns..But word has it that he may take Carlton to court for "restriction of trade". He would have a very good chance of winning, and as a solicitor stated, he was OUT of contract. It will be very interesting to see how the AFL deal with this latest.What right did Carlton have to hold him? If I was out of contract I would like to think it would be MY decision as to whether I would re-sign or not re-sign..Surely you would want that decision too..Would you like to be told that even though you are out of contract it is NOT YOUR decision to remain or leave your employment, and that you would not have a say in it...This is a crazy situation. If he still had a year to go on his contract I could understand you wanting to keep him, just as we did with Everitt, but look what happened with him this year...It was quite obvious he did not want to be there, and in retrospect I wish we had of let him go last year, even though he still had a year to go..I can see the same thing happening with Thornton..and I would just like to add one more thing..if you were offered a great deal more money in another job, wouldn't you want to leave and work there? Would you like to be told you can't leave??I know I sure wouldn't...and we also have top facilities at Waverley, he lives close to there as well, why wouldn't he want to leave, we have a greater chance of playing in finals in the next few years too..I feel for him...I would hate to be tied somewhere I didn't want to be....

 

[mediumsizered]

Well done for sticking to your guns..But word has it that he may take Carlton to court for "restriction of trade". He would have a very good chance of winning, and as a solicitor stated, he was OUT of contract. It will be very interesting to see how the AFL deal with this latest.What right did Carlton have to hold him? If I was out of contract I would like to think it would be MY decision as to whether I would re-sign or not re-sign..Surely you would want that decision too..Would you like to be told that even though you are out of contract it is NOT YOUR decision to remain or leave your employment, and that you would not have a say in it...This is a crazy situation. If he still had a year to go on his contract I could understand you wanting to keep him, just as we did with Everitt, but look what happened with him this year...It was quite obvious he did not want to be there, and in retrospect I wish we had of let him go last year, even though he still had a year to go..I can see the same thing happening with Thornton..and I would just like to add one more thing..if you were offered a great deal more money in another job, wouldn't you want to leave and work there? Would you like to be told you can't leave??I know I sure wouldn't...and we also have top facilities at Waverley, he lives close to there as well, why wouldn't he want to leave, we have a greater chance of playing in finals in the next few years too..I feel for him...I would hate to be tied somewhere I didn't want to be....

If Thornton even considers going down the restraint of trade road, the whole basis of the AFL competition will be under threat. It is a well known fact that the current scenario involving national drafts, priority picks, pre-season drafts, lack of free agency etc. would not stand up in a court of law. The reason they survive? The clubs know that the alternative would see the competition go into a major tailspin, and perhaps crash & burn, therefore the gentlemen's agreement between the clubs not to challenge the AFL's rules relating to player movements stands firm.

There will be no legal challenge by T-Bird or any other player in the near future. The competition would not survive in its present form. Most of all, though, we don't want to see a repeat of the Silvio Foschini court action that saw him get to St Kilda. Our game should be played out on the playing fields, not in courtrooms. Any players not happy with the system should maybe look at another sport. Maybe rugby league or soccer, where there is far more flexibility when it comes to player movements.

 

[LuvMyHawks]

I would hate to see things go down that track too, but would you like to be in the position where you had no say in your future??? I don't think so..Put yourself in his shoes (or boots) Would you put your heart and soul into a job where you were forced to stay, and hated it? I don't think so..and believe me when I say the Hawks have seen what happened to Everitt this year..nobody won in that deal..I hope that whatever happens in the next few weeks that Bret is the winner out of all this, no matter who he ends up with...my thoughts are with him..