first test of the aussie summer 23/24

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Sep 15, 2011
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No doubt they want Green in the team sooner rather than later, and can't really drop Marsh on form.

But accommodating two batting all rounders is a bit difficult, unless they want to drop one of the bowlers and bat Carey at 8.
I love Mitch, but this isn't really true. He burst back into the team with a century, then a 50, then a 30, then teens and single figures. It really was a case of diminishing returns and has a career average under 30. A white ball player for mine, whereas Green is the future.
 
Jan 19, 2008
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I love Mitch, but this isn't really true. He burst back into the team with a century, then a 50, then a 30, then teens and single figures. It really was a case of diminishing returns and has a career average under 30. A white ball player for mine, whereas Green is the future.

Well Marsh played three Tests and averaged 50.

Green played three Tests and averaged 20.

So you would drop Marsh for Green?
 

Westend

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Well Marsh played three Tests and averaged 50.

Green played three Tests and averaged 20.

So you would drop Marsh for Green?

Maybe both could play?


That's coming from the coach..Its starting to grow on me before I was wanting an opener to replace davey at the top but if its out of Bancroft Renshaw Harris or Green to replace Warner...I would pick Greenie over those anyday of the week
 

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I don't know where this chatter of replacing Warner came from, we persisted with him when he could barely make a run, we're not going to drop him having found some form in the World Cup.

The only one banging down the door anyway is Bancroft - which would be some tremendous irony, but I couldn't be less excited about him as a possible replacement.
 
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I don't know where this chatter of replacing Warner came from, we persisted with him when he could barely make a run, we're not going to drop him having found some form in the World Cup.

The only one banging down the door anyway is Bancroft - which would be some tremendous irony, but I couldn't be less excited about him as a possible replacement.
Because Warner is retiring from Test cricket at the end of the Pakistan series. Someone is going to replace him for the West Indies series onwards.
 

Cainozz

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Green doesn’t seem like a natural opener to me. Also the fact that if we want him to be our 4th seamer then he needs to be in the middle order to manage his workload. To me it’s clear, Green is the future and we need to stick with him at no.6 ahead of Marsh. Marsh is great depth to have in the squad and to rotate Green out at the back end of a series. I can potentially see Green moving to number 4 once Smith retires with Head staying at 5 and playing his counterattacking style.
 
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Doesn't really send a great message to players who have performed.

Green needs to get runs and wickets to force his way back in.
Having "great" potential can only last so long.
Well, I'm kinda hoping he gets a bat and some runs in this game. But Mitch's form tailed off quite consistently after his heroic return. And in the starkest of terms, he averages 27 with the bat and 40 with the ball after 35 Tests, Green averages 33 and 36 after 24. It's not just potential but performance.
 

Tugga27

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Well, I'm kinda hoping he gets a bat and some runs in this game. But Mitch's form tailed off quite consistently after his heroic return. And in the starkest of terms, he averages 27 with the bat and 40 with the ball after 35 Tests, Green averages 33 and 36 after 24. It's not just potential but performance.
If it's performance, Marsh deserves to be there,
Green doesn't.

No point in bringing in averages over 35 tests.

Marsh has scored more runs in the last series and Green doesn't deserve to get in because he's younger.

I hope Green gets some in the Shield.
 

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Green doesn’t seem like a natural opener to me. Also the fact that if we want him to be our 4th seamer then he needs to be in the middle order to manage his workload. To me it’s clear, Green is the future and we need to stick with him at no.6 ahead of Marsh. Marsh is great depth to have in the squad and to rotate Green out at the back end of a series. I can potentially see Green moving to number 4 once Smith retires with Head staying at 5 and playing his counterattacking style.

I think he is more natural opening than at 6, where he just kind of plods around.
 

Westend

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If it's performance, Marsh deserves to be there,
Green doesn't.

No point in bringing in averages over 35 tests.

Marsh has scored more runs in the last series and Green doesn't deserve to get in because he's younger.

I hope Green gets some in the Shield.
We must also remember Green wasn't dropped Tuggs he was injured and Marsh came in and took his opportunity by scoring the ton which was fantastic.

and in greenie's last test he took 2 for 60 odd with the ball and mitched bowled 9 overs for 57 that game when the poms amassed 500 plus. Also I thought the way Cummins used greenie as a bowler that series was pathetic IMO....telling him to bowl bouncers every ball was stupid...but thats for another topic

And both Marsh and Green where both denied the opportunity to score match saving centuries due to the rain ..;)

But I do agree that Marsh should not be dropped with the form that he has shown.

What does concern me though and going back to the bowling....is that I worry that Mitch hasn't got 10 overs in him during a daysplay..and backing up the next day

Yes we might get away with it this summer as the opponents are not that flash but come India with a gun batting lineup on good batting decks in Australia on hot days...it concerns me Mitch will not be able to bowl the overs needed ..and we will need that bowling insurance if the main quicks are struggling..

But I am starting to warm to the theory that both can play that Ronnie was sort of alluding to on SEN the other day....if the replacements for Warner are Bancroft Renshaw or Harris I am very happy for Green to be picked over them and us to rejig the batting order ...with Head to open and greenie to bat 5
 

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Tugga27

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We must also remember Green wasn't dropped Tuggs he was injured and Marsh came in and took his opportunity by scoring the ton which was fantastic.

and in greenie's last test he took 2 for 60 odd with the ball and mitched bowled 9 overs for 57 that game when the poms amassed 500 plus. Also I thought the way Cummins used greenie as a bowler that series was pathetic IMO....telling him to bowl bouncers every ball was stupid...but thats for another topic

And both Marsh and Green where both denied the opportunity to score match saving centuries due to the rain ..;)

But I do agree that Marsh should not be dropped with the form that he has shown.

What does concern me though and going back to the bowling....is that I worry that Mitch hasn't got 10 overs in him during a daysplay..and backing up the next day

Yes we might get away with it this summer as the opponents are not that flash but come India with a gun batting lineup on good batting decks in Australia on hot days...it concerns me Mitch will not be able to bowl the overs needed ..and we will need that bowling insurance if the main quicks are struggling..

But I am starting to warm to the theory that both can play that Ronnie was sort of alluding to on SEN the other day....if the replacements for Warner are Bancroft Renshaw or Harris I am very happy for Green to be picked over them and us to rejig the batting order ...with Head to open and greenie to bat 5
I don't think both can play TBH.
Yep, we need more overs from MM.

I wouldn't be moving Trav from 6 to opener.
He can get away with it with the white ball, not sure about a test opener.

Anyway, hope him and Banners score big in the Shield game.
 

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I think he is more natural opening than at 6, where he just kind of plods around.
I don't think he's a natural opener at all, he struggles massively with a moving ball - often facing the new ball batting at 6.

To me he's more a natural 4 or 5, probably 5 at this point. He's too slow to be a 6 and often doesn't have time to construct a proper innings.

Fwiw at this point in his career I don't think he should be in the team over Marsh regardless, in fact I'm not even convinced he should be in if Marsh wasn't around as he hasn't provided a whole lot with bat or ball lately, so it's a moot point afaic. He should be out on form and not just because Marsh has been solid - it helps that Marsh has been solid though.
 

Coops93

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At this point I'm not convinced Carey gets into the team either, after another failure for the Redbacks. I get the test team is different to the short forms, but his test form has been pretty poor for a while as has his overall form. 2 50s in his last 17 innings with a HS of 66* and especially post Bairstow his keeping dropped off. Could be in a dodgy spot if he doesn't get runs for SA in the 2nd innings.
 
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It concerns me Mitch will not be able to bowl the overs needed ..and we will need that bowling insurance if the main quicks are struggling..

But I am starting to warm to the theory that both can play that Ronnie was sort of alluding to on SEN the other day....if the replacements for Warner are Bancroft Renshaw or Harris I am very happy for Green to be picked over them and us to rejig the batting order ...with Head to open and greenie to bat 5

Agree about Marsh and overs, although it is not like Green puts in a heap of work bowling unless someone is hurt.

Again this idea, the logic doesn't work for me. We have no good opening options (true enough) so we move a player who is performing at a high level to a position he is not suited to in order to accommodate someone who isn't performing at a high level.

Smith is our best batsman, why don't we have him open and Green can bat at 4?
 
Doesn't really send a great message to players who have performed.

Green needs to get runs and wickets to force his way back in.
Having "great" potential can only last so long.

lol and bwahaha… Marsh got 30 tests without performing.
 

Jim Prideaux

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I can't see all of starc cummins hazelwood playing due to workload think Morris is a huge chance to make his test debut
Would love to see Morris get a couple of tests, perfect chance to see what he’s got at this level.

I think Boland will play a couple, with Neser a chance if there is an injury.

Murphy hasn’t had a great shield season to date, but wouldn’t hate it if he gets a run, think it will be good in the long term. Just hope they don’t drag him around ‘in the squad’ if he’s not going to play.

Think a rest for Green wouldn’t be the worst thing, with the caveat that he must play domestically/locally and not be a glorified water boy - if he’s in the squad he plays. Marsh deserves a few games.
 

Jim Prideaux

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Probably worth noting that Australia really need to be winning all 5 of these matches to give themselves a chance at making the WTC final given the over-rate point deductions from the Ashes as well as the matches that come after this.

Hopefully management are aware of this and play the best XI available rather than using a Test match as a development tool.
Surely we can do a bit of both, even with a few development selections we should be able to sweep both series barring weather intervention.
 

Westend

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Another thing to consider when Warner goes...is we are going to be losing that dynamic player at the top .

If we go a Bancroft or a Renshaw....we are having two players who like to grind out an innings...pair that with Usman whose job is to bat all day....well strike rate is going to be pretty low

That's why I am warming to Head opening ....he is dynamic and has the ability to score a ton in a sess......that's a weapon to have at the top. Plus it could work with Ussie ....a dasher and a grinder work well together.

I understand the arguments that Head is going fantastic at 5 but we have moved middle order players to opener in the past and its worked.

Langer Katich Watson to name a few ...I would back Head to do the job
 
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Another thing to consider when Warner goes...is we are going to be losing that dynamic player at the top .

If we go a Bancroft or a Renshaw....we are having two players who like to grind out an innings...pair that with Usman whose job is to bat all day....well strike rate is going to be pretty low

That's why I am warming to Head opening ....he is dynamic and has the ability to score a ton in a sess......that's a weapon to have at the top. Plus it could work with Ussie ....a dasher and a grinder work well together.

I understand the arguments that Head is going fantastic at 5 but we have moved middle order players to opener in the past and its worked.

Langer Katich Watson to name a few ...I would back Head to do the job

Hey WE, always good to chat cricket with you.

Are we really losing a dynamic opener though? Or are we losing the idea of one, it's been a long long period of poor returns from Warner.

However agree about batting style, it is going to be a very grindy opening pair with either Bancroft or Renshaw (seems Bancroft by form).

With Head I just worry that he is not technically suited to the job, will lose form and confidence and find himsefl out of the team. Then we have gone from having a gun number 5 and captaincy option to having none of those things and also short an opener.
 

Westend

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Hey WE, always good to chat cricket with you.

Are we really losing a dynamic opener though? Or are we losing the idea of one, it's been a long long period of poor returns from Warner.

However agree about batting style, it is going to be a very grindy opening pair with either Bancroft or Renshaw (seems Bancroft by form).

With Head I just worry that he is not technically suited to the job, will lose form and confidence and find himsefl out of the team. Then we have gone from having a gun number 5 and captaincy option to having none of those things and also short an opener.
Yo bro..

Yeah I think we are losing the dynamic opener that Warner provides ..when he is in form and at his best.

That's why Warner was selected his ability to bring that high tempo at the top.....and yes I agree we have had long periods of poor returns from him. But I think its important that we have a batter at the top that puts pressure on the opposition. With the field up the bowler knows if he stuffs up he is going to go the distance....If we have two grinders up there and take nothing away from Ussie who has been brilliant...just think it will be the wrong tempo...and both Bancroft and Renshaw are grinders

I see the reservations with Head and I understand them at 5 which he is very good at but he opens in the white ball I reckon he can do it Test level. Look at Sehwag...not a great technique you can argue as an opener but an absolute gun who can take the game away from you in a sess Head we have seen can do the same IMO

He can still be a captaincy option opening....look at Tubby Taylor .G Smith M Atherton
 

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