Opinion Flag or flop #3

[Chinacats]

Cats are 13-4 and top of the ladder( top 4 at rounds completion).
I first did the flag or flop thread in 2019 after the cats hit the bye at 10-1. After finals flops in 2016, 17 & 18 not to mention failures in 2013 & 14 from top 4 finishes it was time the cats franked their almost perennial top 4 finishes and win the flag.
They topped up with Dangerfield, Hendo, Touhy, S Selwood then Ablett.
In that 2019 season they went 6-7 post bye, fluffed the qualifying final against woods and lost prelim to tigers after controlling the first half. It was a finals flop!
2020 we made the top 4 again and had the seemingly beneficial shorter quarters for an ageing group. They failed again in the qualifying final against Port and controlled the tigers till half time again before the tigers bullied them in the second half again! It was a finals flop!
Now again the cats top up with Jez Cameron, Isaac Smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

37

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

and Higgins for yet another flag tilt for this ageing group. All chips are in!
They sit in the top 4 again with their finals nemesis of recent years seemingly out of flag contention .
You can’t finish top 4 every year and not win it! Since 2013 the cats have finished top 4 six times for no flag. Reached the prelim or better 5 times for no flag!
If it’s another top 4 finish for no flag then that’s a flop!
If cats don’t win the flag this year then it’s a flop in my eyes.
So yet again cats it’s flag or flop time!
Must win it from here !

 

[#6 Thorp #7 Selwood LOL]

Of course it is, because it always is. We're never playing for 2nd place. I feel daft having to type that out.

At the same time, if we don't win it this year, we'll butter up and go for it again next year. Because what else would we do, just fold the football club?

 

[Chinacats]

Of course it is, because it always is. We're never playing for 2nd place. I feel daft having to type that out.

At the same time, if we don't win it this year, we'll butter up and go for it again next year. Because what else would we do, just fold the football club?

Yes true, but our win % is around 33.3% in finals after finishing top 4 six times since 2013. That’s clearly a fail.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

If it’s another top 4 finish for no flag then that’s a flop!
If cats don’t win the flag this year then it’s a flop in my eyes.
So yet again cats it’s flag or flop time!
Must win it from here !

Oh ok sourpuss ( pardon the pun ) but im past all that rubbish - why dont you just sit back and enjoy last nights win

Geel made last years GF - unfortunately ran into Rich the past 2 seasons - who have clearcut been the outstanding side of the past 4 years

Last night as usual - recorded the game - found out the result - beautiful - sat back and watched it - lovely

This year is very tight - 4-5 teams with a show - injuries /availabilty to key players of all competing teams will be a factor - yet you make the statement now ( 6 weeks to go - not knowing that fact )- that it is either a flag or a disaster

I get alot of joy from the week to week wins

 

[#6 Thorp #7 Selwood LOL]

Yes true, but our win % is around 33.3% in finals after finishing top 4 six times since 2013. That’s clearly a fail.

Ok, and?

Do we all have choose another club to support if that drops below 30%?

Just not entirely sure what your point is here.

 

[Gunf]

I vote we lock this thread until finals and then maybe start thinking about flags or flops etc

Still need to get through the rest of the year yet

 

[dazbroncos]

I vote we lock this thread until finals and then maybe start thinking about flags or flops etc

Still need to get through the rest of the year yet

I’m thinking closely about it - they just end up as shitfights and Arguments about previous years and little about the current year.

Go Catters

 

[Chinacats]

I vote we lock this thread until finals and then maybe start thinking about flags or flops etc

Still need to get through the rest of the year yet

Well if we don’t finish top 4 from here then that’s a flop too. Haha

 

[Chinacats]

Oh ok sourpuss ( pardon the pun ) but im past all that rubbish - why dont you just sit back and enjoy last nights win

Geel made last years GF - unfortunately ran into Rich the past 2 seasons - who have clearcut been the outstanding side of the past 4 years

Last night as usual - recorded the game - found out the result - beautiful - sat back and watched it - lovely

This year is very tight - 4-5 teams with a show - injuries /availabilty to key players of all competing teams will be a factor - yet you make the statement now ( 6 weeks to go - not knowing that fact )- that it is either a flag or a disaster

I get alot of joy from the week to week wins

Well yes I enjoy the week to week wins too. As for tigers let’s not forget post 19 it was if we had Duncan & Hawkins we would’ve won. 2020 we had those two … so then it became if it wasn’t for Dusty & tigers are a dynasty team etc.
well Richmond are out of it now..
I only post this thread because we should win it really. Dees have forward issues, dogs have ticker and back issues, lions never play at MCG and hipwood out. Swans are kids, port are flakey. We should win it TBH.

 

[Chinacats]

I’m thinking closely about it - they just end up as shitfights and Arguments about previous years and little about the current year.

Go Catters

It’s a legitimate question that creates discussion. Don’t know why it would be closed? Anyway it’s on the main board too for those interested in opposition fans views.
Would be weird if it was closed on the cats board but left open on the main board. Interesting …

 

[Chinacats]

Ok, and?

Do we all have choose another club to support if that drops below 30%?

Just not entirely sure what your point is here.

Don’t understand the point??? If you finish top 4 basically every year since 13 and don’t win the flag then it’s a flop. Very easy to understand.

 

[jim boy]

Yes true, but our win % is around 33.3% in finals after finishing top 4 six times since 2013. That’s clearly a fail.

Yeah, but that stat is a bit of a crock.

In one year the eventual premiers have to win a minimum 3 finals. If we were to exclude them, then that means there are six matches to be won out of the other 7 teams. And then there is the second team etc. Bottom dollar is the premiers have at worst a 75% winning record and the runners up at worst 50%, every other team will have a 'poor' finals record and statistically we are no better or worse than most other teams of recent, except Richmond obviously

 

[Chinacats]

Yeah, but that stat is a bit of a crock.

In one year the eventual premiers have to win a minimum 3 finals. If we were to exclude them, then that means there are six matches to be won out of the other 7 teams. And then there is the second team etc. Bottom dollar is the premiers have at worst a 75% winning record and the runners up at worst 50%, every other team will have a 'poor' finals record and statistically we are no better or worse than most other teams of recent, except Richmond obviously

Yes if one year were to be taken in isolation . Then agree. If it’s over 3, 4, 5, 6+ years and still don’t get better than 50% then that’s a fail.

 

[DanA]

I just think we didn't have the side and really overachieved finishing the Home & Away season as high as we did all those years. It was probably only 2013 and 2020 where we potentially had the right makeup to do something in the finals, but even those sides had some pretty major flaws. The ruck situation in 2013 was dreadful, and last year, limitation in ball movement down back was probably our undoing.

IMO we've built on last years Grand Final losing team with our style much more sustainable. We've replaced O'Connor and Taylor down back with Touhy and Atkins. It means we are less aerial dominant but have significantly improved ball movement and plus O'Connor has helped make us more accountable in the middle which was a minor weakness last season too. Adding to the better ball down back is Isaac Smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

37

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

and his gut running while Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

32

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

when playing, is a more reliable lead up target as foil to Hawkins.

I'd also say we are playing nowhere near our potential at present. If we ever get everyone on the field and operating close to 100% I think things go up a gear. We've seen injury curb the influence of Danger, Guthrie, Cameron, and Duncan. Those guys aren't just best 22 players, they are difference makers and if fit and firing.....we have the team and game plan for a flag. Ruck is still a little bit of a liability but i'm more comfortable with the current options we've seen (Blicavs/Ratugolea), and even Fort (based on VFL form) looks to have taken a step forward, we don't necessary have to rely on Stanley to shoulder the load which is probably a good thing. It's still not great and maybe Gawn is our undoing, but IMO the rest of the side and game plan is better.

 

[dazbroncos]

It’s a legitimate question that creates discussion. Don’t know why it would be closed? Anyway it’s on the main board too for those interested in opposition fans views.
Would be weird if it was closed on the cats board but left open on the main board. Interesting …

because it starts a a legit question and degenerates into anything but... and then then Trent West, 2014 SF, dropping Stanley for weather, the no Menzel stuff starts and its all been done to death.

So when it happens again, you'll know why its closed.

GO Catters

 

[Chinacats]

I just think we didn't have the side and really overachieved finishing the Home & Away season as high as we did all those years. It was probably only 2013 and 2020 where we potentially had the right makeup to do something in the finals, but even those sides had some pretty major flaws. The ruck situation in 2013 was dreadful, and last year, limitation in ball movement down back was probably our undoing.

IMO we've built on last years Grand Final losing team with our style much more sustainable. We've replaced O'Connor and Taylor down back with Touhy and Atkins. It means we are less aerial dominant but have significantly improved ball movement and plus O'Connor has helped make us more accountable in the middle which was a minor weakness last season too. Adding to the better ball down back is Isaac Smith and his gut running while Jeremy Cameron when playing, is a more reliable lead up target as foil to Hawkins.

I'd also say we are playing nowhere near our potential at present. If we ever get everyone on the field and operating close to 100% I think things go up a gear. We've seen injury curb the influence of Danger, Guthrie, Cameron, and Duncan. Those guys aren't just best 22 players, they are difference makers and if fit and firing.....we have the team and game plan for a flag. Ruck is still a little bit of a liability but i'm more comfortable with the current options we've seen (Blicavs/Ratugolea), and even Fort (based on VFL form) looks to have taken a step forward, we don't necessary have to rely on Stanley to shoulder the load which is probably a good thing. It's still not great and maybe Gawn is our undoing, but IMO the rest of the side and game plan is better.

Certainly a quality ruckmen could be our undoing again. But doesn’t fall into the excuse bracket as we’ve had years to sort that out.
All things being equal with injuries I can’t see how demons, dogs , swans or lions being better than cats.
From this point we should finish top 4 even though we could lose one more or even two. Definitely hotting up in the kitchen and we have much experience in the kitchen.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Don’t understand the point??? If you finish top 4 basically every year since 13 and don’t win the flag then it’s a flop. Very easy to understand.

Performances in past years are irrelevant to the merits of performances this year & vice versa .
Very easy to understand.
Haha.

 

[Chinacats]

Performances in past years are irrelevant to the merits of performances this year & vice versa .
Very easy to understand.
Haha.

Yes true but gain valuable finals experience each time too.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

I'm on record as predicting flag, but I still feel we need something from out of the box.

2011 Hawkins (young building player who puts it all together for the first time in Finals)
2014 Langford (Genuine spud who for 6 weeks becomes prime Cameron Ling)
2017 Graham/Townsend (late season additions of young/terrible players who perfectly find a role and unlock everything else the team wants to do)
2018 Schofield (Injury replacement who plays career best Football)

A few examples of pieces that came together very late in the season that really helped push a team over the edge.
We could see O'Connor do 3 straight amazing lock down jobs in Finals
We could see Quinton Narkle

19

Quinton Narkle

Age

28

Ht

182cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

6.9

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

3.0

5star

G

0.6

4star

D

11.4

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

6.0

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.6

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

12.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.8

4star

decide to average 28 touches and a goal for the final 6 weeks of the season
Adding Jarvis and De Koning might solve all our problems
Maybe Jenkins replaces somebody up forwards and kicks 4 in a GF.

Who ****ing knows, but I feel we need something a bit weird to push us over the top. Maybe it's just Luke Dahlhaus

40

Luke Dahlhaus

Age

33

Ht

179cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.8

5star

K

9.2

4star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

G

0.7

4star

D

13.0

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

7.9

4star

M

2.9

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.6

4star

D

14.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

7.6

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

3.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

and Higgins remembering they used to be good and bringing last nights form to Finals.