Flashback: Dunstall or Carey

[DapperDon]

Thought I'd change up the polls board and go back in time.

Imagine you had a time machine, and you had the chance to go back and pick one of these Legends. You can only choose either of these players and only one. Once they are brought to the future you are guaranteed they'll replicate their careers (personal wise, not premierships)

Would you pick

Jason Dunstall - Best FF the game has seen.
A player guaranteed to kick a bag every second week
Games: 269
Goals: 1254
All Australian: 2 times
Coleman: 3 times
Best & Fairest: 4 times

Or would you go with

Wayne Carey - Best CHF the game has seen.
A player who'll dominate the offensive half of the ground throughout his career.
Games: 244
Goals: 671
All Australian: 7 times
Best & Fairest: 4 times
In short, I guess the question is. Would you rather the greatest FF we've seen or the greatest CHF we've seen.

 

[Drummer_19]

In todays game, Carey.

That's assuming you take them exactly as they were and don't adjust for Dunstall probably having a different body shape/fitter with the way things are run now.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I've always had Dunstall in the top 5 players I've seen, having said that, Carey easily. Regardless of how things ended, when he was playing he was the general. His onfield leadership, his sheer presence and his ability to just grab a game by the scruff of the neck and drag the team along with him.

Hawks didn't walk tall because Dunstall was playing, it was because of Brereton, Ayres etc etc.

Geelong may have snagged 3 or 4 flags during Carey's career. They already had a 100+ a year goal kicker in the side.

 

[Saintly31]

Carey clearly. (which is no knock on Dunstall who was an absolute champ)

The only past player that would be worthwhile having a poll with Carey in it would be Gary Snr - even if he didn't play forward his whole career, its the closest in terms of ability.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

It's funny as Carey always rates Dunstall as the best he has seen.

Carey is the best ever. Would have liked to Dunstall at the dome though. He wouldn't have missed a set shot ever.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Dunstall is a legitimate all-time-great, but Carey is the best player I've seen and played the more demanding position IMO. So Carey for me.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

And All-Australian captain multiple times... Carey.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

I reckon Dunstall would have fitted in ok in todays footy, though wouldn't have been quick enough, but he always did the forward pressure thing, gave off a lot of goals, great hands, and one of the best shots at goal the game has seen. In saying that, I would probably take Carey now, purely as he was a lot more mobile, and his marking would be a massive asset in todays footy. People rave about Cloke these days with his marking, Carey did that everyweek, for about 10 years straight.

 

[Old Skool]

Duck.

That's no sleight on Dunstall who is a champion in every sense of the word.

 

[footscore]

Dunstall was stronger, slightly better mark and a more accurate kick at goal.

Carey's impact in a game was a little more profound due to the position he played but when you look at both players and the opposition they had to play against every single week, Dunstall had to contend with much more difficult opponents and defenders who were often 2-4 inches taller than himself.

Carey had an unbelievable period between 93-96 but suffered chronic shoulder injuries which limited his ability to perform at the highest level only Carey could perform at.

I'd have to take Dunstall because his body would have held up much better and TBoyleSuperstar, your a Hawthorn supporter and say Dunstall wasn't quick?
Are you for real?
Dunstall was exceptionally quick off the mark...it's a major reason why he booted over 1200 goals.
He was explosive once he took off.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Dunstall was stronger, slightly better mark and a more accurate kick at goal.

Carey's impact in a game was a little more profound due to the position he played but when you look at both players and the opposition they had to play against every single week, Dunstall had to contend with much more difficult opponents and defenders who were often 2-4 inches taller than himself.

Carey had an unbelievable period between 93-96 but suffered chronic shoulder injuries which limited his ability to perform at the highest level only Carey could perform at.

I'd have to take Dunstall because his body would have held up much better and TBoyleSuperstar, your a Hawthorn supporter and say Dunstall wasn't quick?
Are you for real?
Dunstall was exceptionally quick off the mark...it's a major reason why he booted over 1200 goals.
He was explosive once he took off.

No doubting Dunstall's pace off the mark, more of a general quickness he would lack now in terms of getting the field to pressure etc. Look, it was a tough call between the two, but the OP was after who would be better now, so right now, I'd take the duck. And I can tell you, it wasn't easy to say. JD is one of my alltime favs

 

[mufassa]

No chopping of the arms and hands in the back rule - both would have enjoyed these 2 rules. Carey is the best I have seen.

 

[Saintly31]

Dunstall was stronger, slightly better mark and a more accurate kick at goal.

Carey's impact in a game was a little more profound due to the position he played but when you look at both players and the opposition they had to play against every single week, Dunstall had to contend with much more difficult opponents and defenders who were often 2-4 inches taller than himself.

Carey had an unbelievable period between 93-96 but suffered chronic shoulder injuries which limited his ability to perform at the highest level only Carey could perform at.

I'd have to take Dunstall because his body would have held up much better and TBoyleSuperstar, your a Hawthorn supporter and say Dunstall wasn't quick?
Are you for real?
Dunstall was exceptionally quick off the mark...it's a major reason why he booted over 1200 goals.
He was explosive once he took off.

Carey got the absolute best of opponents. Silvagni, Jakovich, Grant etc etc. Totally untrue statement.

As for the marking comment - maybe time to review some tapes as your memory is a little misguided. Dunstall wouldn't come close as a marking forward, even if he had his own brilliant qualities.

 

[footscore]

Carey got the absolute best of opponents. Silvagni

Silvagni very rarely played on Carey as I remember Sexton getting the job more often but I reckon apart from Jacovich, Roos, Neitz, Lynch...his direct opponent wasn't as good as some of the opponents full forwards had to face off against.

 

[footscore]

even if he had his own brilliant qualities.

I reckon you need to check a few more videos yourself mate.
Dunstall averaged just as many marks as Carey in his career and he had a vice like grip once the footy was anywhere near his palms.

Carey was more spectacular and took many more speccies but arguing one was a better mark than the other is almost pointless as both were extremely good in that area of their game.

Believe me, I saw much of Carey, we use to go almost every Friday night with my footy team just to watch the Friday night footy and most night's it was North Melbourne playing and watching Carey in his prime was awesome.
I certainly don't need to watch tapes of him even though I got many of them to judge his marking but I personally feel that Dunstall was just a brute of a machine who marked almost everything that came in his direction. I hate the guy because of his media work after football but my god he was an exceptional player.

 

[footscore]

one other thing about Dunstall was his finals record.

Often overlooked because of the other great players in the side at the time but exclude his first season for Hawthorn as he was in and out of the team all year long, he averaged 4 goals per match...that's just an amazing record and even in the most famous GF of them all '89', he kicked 4.3 and missed some absolute sitters.

 

[mufassa]

Silvagni very rarely played on Carey as I remember Sexton getting the job more often but I reckon apart from Jacovich, Roos, Neitz, Lynch...his direct opponent wasn't as good as some of the opponents full forwards had to face off against.

Who were the fullbacks that were so much better than the CHB's?

 

[Saintly31]

Silvagni very rarely played on Carey as I remember Sexton getting the job more often but I reckon apart from Jacovich, Roos, Neitz, Lynch...his direct opponent wasn't as good as some of the opponents full forwards had to face off against.

Please name these full back that played on Dunstall that you consider better than the names mentioned mate.

I reckon you need to check a few more videos yourself mate.
Dunstall averaged just as many marks as Carey in his career and he had a vice like grip once the footy was anywhere near his palms.

Carey was more spectacular and took many more speccies but arguing one was a better mark than the other is almost pointless as both were extremely good in that area of their game.

Believe me, I saw much of Carey, we use to go almost every Friday night with my footy team just to watch the Friday night footy and most night's it was North Melbourne playing and watching Carey in his prime was awesome.
I certainly don't need to watch tapes of him even though I got many of them to judge his marking but I personally feel that Dunstall was just a brute of a machine who marked almost everything that came in his direction. I hate the guy because of his media work after football but my god he was an exceptional player.

No its not. Carey was clearly a superior mark to Dunstall IMO at his best, especially as he usually had more than one opponent which was different to Dunstall. That doesnt make Dunstall a bad mark, but going against arguably the best mark of all time is a tough ask.

one other thing about Dunstall was his finals record.

Often overlooked because of the other great players in the side at the time but exclude his first season for Hawthorn as he was in and out of the team all year long, he averaged 4 goals per match...that's just an amazing record and even in the most famous GF of them all '89', he kicked 4.3 and missed some absolute sitters.

Agree with that for sure.

 

[Necromancer Beth]

Dunstall because I'm biased. Dunstall was probably in the top 7 or 8 greatest players ever from all reports. I know Carey & Matthews are regarded as the games greatest two players, so I would expect Carey to win this hands down.

 

[footscore]

Who were the fullbacks that were so much better than the CHB's?

Frawley, McKenna, McIntosh, Fletcher, Silvagni, Danihers, Smart, Hart, Ayres/Langford (yeh same team but great defenders no doubt), Martyn, Pert and then some players I never saw play but were suppose to be pretty decent in Wight, Champion, G. Brown, Kellaway, Dunkley, Gasper....man there just off the top of my head but could go on and on.

Don't have to get offended but I'm just saying that full back's had it pretty tough against quality opponents as well.

 

[Dan]

It's tough one, which do you rate more in terms of the position they played what they delivered for their side. Dunstall a consistent goal machine at FF or Carey not as many goals as Dunstall obviously but provided that important target at CHF, arguably a much tougher position to play than FF. Carey could easily play FF and pinch hit at CHB, could Dunstall?

I'd go with Carey but Dunstall's a champ, that's a given.

 

[mufassa]

Frawley, McKenna, McIntosh, Fletcher, Silvagni, Danihers, Smart, Hart, Ayres/Langford (yeh same team but great defenders no doubt), Martyn, Pert and then some players I never saw play but were suppose to be pretty decent in Wight, Champion, G. Brown, Kellaway, Dunkley, Gasper....man there just off the top of my head but could go on and on.

Don't have to get offended but I'm just saying that full back's had it pretty tough against quality opponents as well.

Not offended - especially after you named players that were not full backs and players you never saw play.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Frawley, McKenna, McIntosh, Fletcher, Silvagni, Danihers, Smart, Hart, Ayres/Langford (yeh same team but great defenders no doubt), Martyn, Pert and then some players I never saw play but were suppose to be pretty decent in Wight, Champion, G. Brown, Kellaway, Dunkley, Gasper....man there just off the top of my head but could go on and on.

Don't have to get offended but I'm just saying that full back's had it pretty tough against quality opponents as well.

Out of the 19 players you've named there, there's ten that may have regularly played at fb. Frawley, McIntosh, Fletcher, Silvagni, Anthony Daniher, Martyn, Pert, Dunkley and perhaps Gasper (Scott Turner at Tiges), Wight (Danny Hughes was Melbourne's fb) and Champion. Shit you may as well add James Hird and Derek Kickett who both had a crack at fb the day Ablett kicked 14 in the losing side in '93. Ablett himself even played fb on Dunstall at one point.

Why add all the others to pad the numbers out?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Please name these full back that played on Dunstall that you consider better than the names mentioned mate.



No its not. Carey was clearly a superior mark to Dunstall IMO at his best, especially as he usually had more than one opponent which was different to Dunstall. That doesnt make Dunstall a bad mark, but going against arguably the best mark of all time is a tough ask.



Agree with that for sure.

I reckon Snr had him and everyone else covered in that department. Big Buckets Loewe wasn't too shabby either.

 

[pacman]

Wouldn't swap Dunstall for the world, but we are comparing Carey who is top 3 in the greatest ever players with Dunstall that is 4th - 15th in the greatest players.