Religion Folau

[Cooldude]

Imagine knowing a bit of history of the homosexuals and Christianity, and somehow think the latter are the victims

 

[Evolved1]

As for the contract, we dont know if he was in breach. And Im not sure whether that will ever be answered because Im not sure if that is what will be contested.

We know that Folau breached the players code of conduct. We know that he was kindly asked to stop and back down from that bigotry merely days before his employment was terminated, with the promise of a slap on the wrist as disciplinary action. We know that he hid from his manager and employer. We know that he was sacked as a result of giving his employer no other alternative.

What we don't know is why so many Aussies took those facts and came to the conclusion that Folau is a victim and flag-bearer for their freedom, then threw $2 million towards any cause the ACL wishes to push as a result.

We're a dumb nation.

 

[CakeEater]

I think she should open her mouth more often. Removes all doubt about how ignorant she is.

And for someone so well travelled.

As for the contract, we dont know if he was in breach. And Im not sure whether that will ever be answered because Im not sure if that is what will be contested.

Hairy, You can take it to the bank that RA will run this “breach” through the case at F/work as it was the breach of the employment contract in RA’s eyes that led to termination of his employment.

So it will absolutely be contested by Israel’s side and Ra’s side

 

[Evolved1]

The good Christian folk who have rallied around Folau, I'm sure they mean well and really do believe in this Freedom-of-Speech thing and although they may not agree with him, they will fight for his right to say it.

Well that being the case, I reckon that all Priests/Pastors/Vicars etc, regardless of denomination, they are all screaming homosexuals and pedophiles. I reckon that all German people and those of German heritage, they are all Nazi's and when night falls, they go out and kill Jewish babies and eat them. I reckon that Jews are descended from the Devil and should be eradicated. All Greek men are homosexuals and if they have a wife, it's just a front for their sordid homsexual activities. All Aboriginal men are drunks, all Aboriginal women are whores and all Aboriginal men are pedophiles. All women who dress like call girls deserve to be r*ped, Muslim women who wear Hijabs are really Muslim men hiding from the authorities because they are planning mass suicide bombings of kindergartens.

Please good Christian folk, please fight for me to say these things and even though Israel Folau and others of the Pentecostal "faith", people like our esteemed Prime Minister, even though they reckon that your late father and late mother who were wonderfull and honourable Christians and your siblings and loved ones that have passed on, even if they too were the epitome of kindness and gave freely to help those that were in need and lived decent and righteous Christian lives, even though Messrs Folau, Morrison et al. believe with all their heart that all your loved ones that have passed away are now spending eternity in hell and that you too, will join them to burn in hell forevermore because you and they weren't "saved" whilst on earth, that's OK; they mean well. So onward Christian Soldiers and remember, next time we go to war to fight against, say, another Hitler or another ISIS, please think twice before you commit yourselves to war because after all, Hitler and Bin Laden, they too are entitled to Freedom-of-Speech: aren't they?

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to set up a GoFundMe page so all of you wonderful upholders of Freedom of Speech and Christianity can send me your donations so I can buy an aircraft to fly all over Australia and set up my soap box in the main shopping areas and pronounce to all and sundry that having sexual relation with minors is OK because there is nothing in the Bible that says it isn't OK and in my Christian faith, we have the "Sex-with-children Gospel". Just like the Pentecostals have the "Prosperity Gospels" to bring them closer to God, our "Sex-with-Children Gospels" also brings one closer to God. I am a Christian.

Thank you for your time, God bless you all, I'm a Christian.

I haven't felt this touched since I last spent time with George Pell. <shrugs>

 

[Chief]

2a) As if religious beliefs can be compromised by a bloody contract. It's absurd for any organisation to even make the implication.
2b) Did he promote those beliefs on the RA website?

The idea of corporations having freedom of expression restrictions over a persons social time is Orwellian. There are things greater than marketing in this life. Some of you folks make exceptional free market capitalists for purported liberals.

Another thing, does anyone have an actual copy of this contract that they can post?

It’s not the beliefs it’s the expression in a way that screws with the employer.

Pretty simple.

 

[HairyO]

Hairy, You can take it to the bank that RA will run this “breach” through the case at F/work as it was the breach of the employment contract in RA’s eyes that led to termination of his employment.

So it will absolutely be contested by Israel’s side and Ra’s side

It depends. Im sure Folau's argument will be that they simply had no legal right to terminate his employment, contract or not. And if that is the case he makes, then that is what RA have to respond to.

Sporting codes have all sorts of rules which are based on handshake agreements, not law. Drafting is absolutely a restraint of trade, but the players accept it because they make far more cash than they would otherwise get in any other legal job.

And social media policies is the big one of this decade. Companies do not own us when we are at work, and they certainly dont own us when we are not at work.

 

[Le Grille]

It depends. Im sure Folau's argument will be that they simply had no legal right to terminate his employment, contract or not. And if that is the case he makes, then that is what RA have to respond to.

Sporting codes have all sorts of rules which are based on handshake agreements, not law. Drafting is absolutely a restraint of trade, but the players accept it because they make far more cash than they would otherwise get in any other legal job.

And social media policies is the big one of this decade. Companies do not own us when we are at work, and they certainly dont own us when we are not at work.

No but if your actions publicly reflect poorly on the employer and causes potential damage through loss of sponsors/customers etc then it is reasonable that the employer sanctions the employee some way, then if it happens again termination is a potential remedy

 

[CakeEater]

It depends. Im sure Folau's argument will be that they simply had no legal right to terminate his employment, contract or not. And if that is the case he makes, then that is what RA have to respond to.

Sporting codes have all sorts of rules which are based on handshake agreements, not law. Drafting is absolutely a restraint of trade, but the players accept it because they make far more cash than they would otherwise get in any other legal job.

And social media policies is the big one of this decade. Companies do not own us when we are at work, and they certainly dont own us when we are not at work.

Hairy, having gone round on the F/work carousel before.

I can tell you categorically the breach will be discussed in the conciliation.

What happens is this:
1. Folau alledges adverse action and fills in a ream of paperwork
2. Ra responds outlining why the Folaus termination didn’t wasn’t an adverse action filling in more reams of paperwork ( outlining the breach of Folaus employment contract led to his termination)
3. In conciliation both sides “facts” are argued on ( using 1&2 to formulate their arguments)
4. If neither side can agree on a settlement in this instance arbitration occurs
5.repeat step 3 in arbitration obviously with witnesses being called
Btw Hairy- he can only claim adverse action as he can’t claim u/dismissal as he earns way too much money.

 

[AM]

 

[Crankitup]

Even Brian Houston has spoken against Folau's tactics, and he's probably the most respected spokesperson for born-again Christians in this country.

I have to say his stance doesn't surprise me considering what his father Frank used to get up to.

 

[Crankitup]

Homophobia is disgusting whether it comes from atheists, Christians, or Muslims. IOW Folau was sacked for repeatedly posting a disgusting bigoted belief on social media, regardless of the source of that belief.

I don't think the term homophobia is helpful here. The word technically means an irrational fear (or hatred) of homosexuals, or at least it started out that way. Folau isn't scared of homosexuals or their advocates. If he was, he would never have stuck his neck out and copped all the flak. He has a principled objection towards their behaviour but doesn't hate them and is concerned enough for what he sees as their fate in an unrepentant state to speak out and warn them.

Of course there are many liberal churches who say they love gays and welcome them with open arms, but if they truly loved them they would tell them the truth rather than (1) affirming their practice and (2) saying that the Bible does not see it as sin, which advice will see them shut out of heaven (1 Cor 7:9).

When eternal consequences are in the balance, the truth, even when it hurts, shouldn't be kept under a bushel.

Getting back to the term 'homophobia', maybe gaycism would be better?

 

[Snake_Baker]

I don't think the term homophobia is helpful here. The word technically means an irrational fear (or hatred) of homosexuals, or at least it started out that way. Folau isn't scared of homosexuals or their advocates. If he was, he would never have stuck his neck out and copped all the flak. He has a principled objection towards their behaviour but doesn't hate them and is concerned enough for what he sees as their fate in an unrepentant state to speak out and warn them.

Of course there are many liberal churches who say they love gays and welcome them with open arms, but if they truly loved them they would tell them the truth rather than (1) affirming their practice and (2) saying that the Bible does not see it as sin, which advice will see them shut out of heaven (1 Cor 7:9).

When eternal consequences are in the balance, the truth, even when it hurts, shouldn't be kept under a bushel.

Of course this is correct, but good luck educating the brainwashed.

 

[Crankitup]

IMO the majority of those donating to this cause and Folau himself are not coming from a compassionate empathetic position. I'll hazard a guess that it is coming from high on a horse based in a condescending and judgmental viewpoint.

If they thought they'd get away with it they'd call for conversion therapy centers.

With regard to your accusations of judgement and condemnation, have you considered how ironically judgmental and condemnatory they sound?

Anyway, to lighten the mood here's a totally unrelated picture. Enjoy.

 

[Benny78]

Man what about those poor drug addicts. Is that comparison not way more offensive to them than gays? Both Folau and the left should be ashamed for using addicts in such contempt.

 

[M Malice]

With regard to your accusations of judgement and condemnation, have you considered how ironically judgmental and condemnatory they sound?

From my life experience re mixing with many many religious folk I stand by my post, the majority come from a judgmental condescending point of view with regards to homosexuality.

There was an instance very close to me a year or so ago which I posted about somewhere on this board of an adult child coming out to their parents and the reaction from these religious parents was shocking, this glaringly confirmed my above opinion as it came from close life long devoutly religious friends who I thought would be loving and compassionate, far from it unfortunately. It changed my opinion of them for the worse quite dramatically... sadly for our ongoing now not as close friendship.

 

[Monkey King]

I relate this issue to the Adam Goodes racism saga.

As a white heterosexual male, I can't relate to either issue on the basis of feeling personally offended.

I can relate to Folau’s comments. I am an unbeliever. I have lied. I have fornicated. I do not repent to Folau’s God. Folau just told me that I am going to hell.

My response - you’re a total dill Izzy for believing in a story concocted eons ago by ignorant flat-earthers; might as well have told me I’m Santa’s naughty list.

Fortunately, for the time being, I am equally free to speak my beliefs in response. There are those however, who would object to this freedom should my beliefs not fall on their side of an imaginary line though.

There is no special outrage reserved for one of the by-lines here. You’re either offended that Folau is telling people they’ll go to hell for mostly everyday acts, or you’re not. Only being offended for one “group” is just petty identity politics, the buy-in to which in my estimation, makes you as foolish as those who believe in the invisible man.

 

[Monkey King]

And the most important nation to do so in my opinion.

I don’t value your opinion. Had the French, British and Roman Catholic Church not condemned or outlawed slavery, the chances are that Christian groups in the U.S.A. would never have started pushing for abolition.

 

[Monkey King]

The ARU is explicit on its values - inclusivity being one of them, I.e making more people feel comfortable playing the sport.

That’s a 5 years strategy, not a charter. They’re not the founding principles of the institution. ARU “values” flap in winds of perceived public opinion. Religious beliefs do not. Your analogy is not at all tight.

 

[CM86]

I can relate to Folau’s comments. I am an unbeliever. I have lied. I have fornicated. I do not repent to Folau’s God. Folau just told me that I am going to hell.

You're a liar.
Nothing you post has any meaning because it's not true.

 

[Monkey King]

You're a liar.
Nothing you post has any meaning because it's not true.

I am an unbeliever too ... so sorry, but I don’t believe you.

 

[CM86]

I am an unbeliever too ... so sorry, but I don’t believe you.

You're an atheist?

 

[Monkey King]

Your an atheist?

My an atheist what?

EDIT: I am a possibilian.

 

[CM86]

I have lied. I have fornicated.

Past tense.
Aren't you married now?

Seems like you've changed your ways.


You actually do see the difference between "I have ..." and "I am a homosexual". But then confuse them again.




Here is the problem. One of those issues are heavily pushed as a sign (slippery slope) of "cultural Marcism" which is the catch-cry of the alt-right.

People boast about drinking and ****ing. Everyone admits they've lied at some point. Homosexuals are 'ruining the family unit', marriage, adoption.
Homosexuals somehow are also forcing us to use gender pronouns.
Homosexuals are part of why universities and colleges are taking away our free speech.
Homosexuals are part of why universities and colleges are teaching useless degrees in feminism and gender fluidity.
etc etc etc.

This is another attack on homosexuals, because it's linked to the 'left' having too much power.
It's linked to the erosion of 'western civilisation'.


It's an attack on homosexuals, not on religion.

 

[CM86]

My an atheist what?

EDIT: I am a possibilian.

Then the only one that you said "I am" about... wasn't even mentioned by Folau.


So you're not an atheist... You've lied in the past, and you are married now.

You have turned away from your sin... (acts)

Can you do the same as a homosexual?

 

[Monkey King]

Past tense.

You actually do see the difference between "I have ..." and "I am a homosexual". But then confuse them again.

It's an attack on homosexuals, not on religion.

No confusion here. I have lied. I will lie again. My acceptance of this as an inevitable human proclivity would make me a liar. I am an atheist in Folau’s eyes, as I do not believe in God. Neither defines me in my own eyes, but it may well in eyes of others. I accept however, that I can not control what others think. And honestly, that’s a far more mentally healthy place to be than getting all upset over some religious nuff saying I’m going to hell.

Btw ... I’m not married. I live in sin and fornicate like a rabbit. Hell awaits! Lol.