Religion Folau

[Slartibartfast]

Lol, where have I been the past 30 years? Please tell me exactly how you know for a fact what is contained in Folau’s contract of employment, because if you don’t you are really drawing some long bows with your claims.

Whilst you’re at it, please explain to me also what and how his tweet is discriminating against anyone? Do you know the meaning of the word?

He is also not in the slightest telling anyone they are going to burn in Hell, before you make such silly and ignorant remarks I suggest you go and reread his actual tweet and do a cursory google search on the common interpretation of that passage from Corinthians and how it is meant to be interpreted, scripture is allegory it is not meant to be interpreted literally.

Issy has associated homosexuality with hell. I dont need to read any fractured fairy tale to understand what Issy said.
He is saying it is bad, negative, wrong.
He signed a contract saying he would not discriminate on the basis of sexuality. No one in Australian can do this. Issy has the extra burden of being a celebrity whose social media plays a part of his workplace . He was told last year to stop, his arrogant and ignorant ways will be his downfall.
Issy broke his contract ! It is very simple. I am not saying he is going to hell fore this , though his hypocrisy may get him an invite but he is going to lose his job and rightfully so.
Stop living in denial and trying to manipulate the world to suit your own warped outlook on it.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Lol please, do yourself a favour and before bleating rubbish about these abitrary “rules” you might want to go and actually read up on what constitutes unlawful discrimination under the Acts you yourself have helpfully posted above, I’m assuming for what you think is my benefit but clearly you aren’t at all familiar with them yourself. Try not to confuse yourself either by lumping it in with your other “rules” like the criminal offences you have quoted, they’re in fact not the same at all.

I notice you ignored the Australian Human Rights Commission info which work base laws are based on.
In no workplace in Australia are you allowed to discriminate on the basis of sexuality.

 

[Lebbo73]

I notice you ignored the Australian Human Rights Commission info which work base laws are based on.
In no workplace in Australia are you allowed to discriminate on the basis of sexuality.

I’m pretty sure he didn’t do it in his workplace.

 

[FrakturedHalo]

I’m pretty sure he didn’t do it in his workplace.

Lol I’m pretty sure, actually no I’m certain considering this is my professional field, that he also hasn’t discriminated against anyone either, homosexual or otherwise

 

[Kummerspeck]

I would be very surprised if there was some kind of specific clause or item in his contract prohibiting him from expressing publicly his religious convictions, on social media or otherwise.

I imagine there would be one prohibiting him from discriminating against people based on their sexuality. Rugby Australia refers to this in their statement on Folau and stating that he was formally and repeatedly told about it.

 

[FrakturedHalo]

Issy has associated homosexuality with hell. I dont need to read any fractured fairy tale to understand what Issy said.
He is saying it is bad, negative, wrong.
He signed a contract saying he would not discriminate on the basis of sexuality. No one in Australian can do this. Issy has the extra burden of being a celebrity whose social media plays a part of his workplace . He was told last year to stop, his arrogant and ignorant ways will be his downfall.
Issy broke his contract ! It is very simple. I am not saying he is going to hell fore this , though his hypocrisy may get him an invite but he is going to lose his job and rightfully so.
Stop living in denial and trying to manipulate the world to suit your own warped outlook on it.

My friend, I feel you need to sit down and take a couple of slow deep breaths and maybe a Valium, and then try to attempt to post a rational argument in support of your claims specifically citing some applicable and relevant references that support the claims you are making, without the whole emotional thing you’ve got going on clouding your judgement. What you have posted above with regards to the Anti-discrimination act and Human Rights commission is in fact not even relevant to this discussion as it’s not applicable in this instance as there has been no observable case of discrimination that has occured? If you are in doubt as to what legally constitutes discrimination perhaps you’d like to read what’s on this page https://www.humanrights.gov.au/complaints/complaint-guides/what-you-can-complain-about/complaints-under-sex-discrimination-act

As for the rest of it, well you’ve already admitted you don’t want to entertain any explanation of how the quote Folau used in his tweet is commonly interpreted to mean as that contradicts your own claims that you in fact know exactly what it is he meant and the values he holds like you are inside his head and you KNOW his intention was to vilify and condemn, so there’s no real point trying to engage further with you in a rational and mature discussion. Has it occurred to you that by doing that you are displaying behaviours that are just as intolerant and blinkered as those you are condemning in him? If everyone wants to make snap judgements based not upon their knowledge (or lack thereof) of the context, subject material or person themselves but instead simply on their own perception of a 140 character sentence and not give any care nor consideration as to whether they’ve interpreted it correctly or not, then we are in no way heading towards being this inclusive and tolerant society that everyone likes to virtue-signal that they want us to be.

There are none so blind as those who have eyes...

 

[Slartibartfast]

My friend, I feel you need to sit down and take a couple of slow deep breaths and maybe a Valium, and then try to attempt to post a rational argument in support of your claims specifically citing some applicable and relevant references that support the claims you are making, without the whole emotional thing you’ve got going on clouding your judgement. What you have posted above with regards to the Anti-discrimination act and Human Rights commission is in fact not even relevant to this discussion as it’s not applicable in this instance as there has been no observable case of discrimination that has occured? If you are in doubt as to what legally constitutes discrimination perhaps you’d like to read what’s on this page https://www.humanrights.gov.au/complaints/complaint-guides/what-you-can-complain-about/complaints-under-sex-discrimination-act

As for the rest of it, well you’ve already admitted you don’t want to entertain any explanation of how the quote Folau used in his tweet is commonly interpreted to mean as that contradicts your own claims that you in fact know exactly what it is he meant and the values he holds like you are inside his head and you KNOW his intention was to vilify and condemn, so there’s no real point trying to engage further with you in a rational and mature discussion. Has it occurred to you that by doing that you are displaying behaviours that are just as intolerant and blinkered as those you are condemning in him? If everyone wants to make snap judgements based not upon their knowledge (or lack thereof) of the context, subject material or person themselves but instead simply on their own perception of a 140 character sentence and not give any care nor consideration as to whether they’ve interpreted it correctly or not, then we are in no way heading towards being this inclusive and tolerant society that everyone likes to virtue-signal that they want us to be.

There are none so blind as those who have eyes...

You really are embarrassing yourself. You cannot discriminate on the basis of sexuality, has been this way for ages.
Please not the term, “being dismissed” where this can be used by an employer.
Your intolerance cannot be justified.
Take a bex and have a lie down then go to confessional in the morning and i guess all will be forgiven in your eyes.

When can this law be used?

You can use the SDA to get fair treatment in:

• Employment – getting a job, terms and conditions of a job, training, promotion, being dismissed.

Issy knew he was pushing buttons by making this statement on social media. Total disrespect and he deserves whats coming to him. He was warned after last years episode , they really tried to work with him but not Issy.
As for hypocrisy of posing for a photo with gay rugby players shows how shallow he is, all good to get the kudos for being inclusive posing for a picture but to then slate those players when they are not there to say are going to hell for just being who they are. What a pathetic human being.
I am shocked that people in this day and age think that it is ok to do this.
We have come along way in 2000 years , we know and understand so much more than we did back then. Shame some are not up to speed on the realities of this world.
He BREACHED his CONTRACT and he is out the door and so he should. End of story.

 

[Downhill Skier]

You really are embarrassing yourself. You cannot discriminate on the basis of sexuality, has been this way for ages.
Please not the term, “being dismissed” where this can be used by an employer.
Your intolerance cannot be justified.
Take a bex and have a lie down then go to confessional in the morning and i guess all will be forgiven in your eyes.

When can this law be used?

You can use the SDA to get fair treatment in:

• Employment – getting a job, terms and conditions of a job, training, promotion, being dismissed.

Issy knew he was pushing buttons by making this statement on social media. Total disrespect and he deserves whats coming to him. He was warned after last years episode , they really tried to work with him but not Issy.
As for hypocrisy of posing for a photo with gay rugby players shows how shallow he is, all good to get the kudos for being inclusive posing for a picture but to then slate those players when they are not there to say are going to hell for just being who they are. What a pathetic human being.
I am shocked that people in this day and age think that it is ok to do this.
We have come along way in 2000 years , we know and understand so much more than we did back then. Shame some are not up to speed on the realities of this world.
He BREACHED his CONTRACT and he is out the door and so he should. End of story.

Do you even know what you are saying. The bolded above only relates to Employee's and not employers. You still don't know what discrimination is

 

[FrakturedHalo]

Do you even know what you are saying. The bolded above only relates to Employee's and not employers. You still don't know what discrimination is

Imagine dear Slarti’s cognitive dissonance and subsequent meltdown when he finally has to come to terms with the fact that the only observable discrimination that can reasonably be claimed to have occurred - as defined by the very laws and “rules” he is so staunchly and deservedly quoting in some misguided attempt to support his own erroneous arguments - is that of Rugby Australia/NSW against IF?

Whether or not Folau’s legal team will be able to present enough compelling arguments to overcome the diversionary tactics RA’s silks will no doubt employ in presenting it to be simply a straightforward matter of contract law, does anyone seriously believe this is the case? Does anyone actually think that Alan Joyce, CEO of Qantas, multi multi millionaire, champion of the public campaign for the push for marriage equality, savvy political and corporate wheeler dealer would really be so annoyed that Folau is allegedly in breach of his legal contract that it has caused him to reportedly - as RA’s principal sponsor - involve himself in the administrative affairs of another organisation and be putting the screws on rugby administrators behind the scenes to make a strong statement condemning such views...if it was simply a contract matter?
The truth is that Folau is to be sacked because the beliefs of his particular church and faith leads him to hold views that conflict with the leftist-progressive movement in which ‘diversity’ and ‘tolerance’ demands that we all think the same way about sexuality and gender. Australia has made great advances in protecting individuals and groups from certain forms of behavior. Anti-discrimination laws have rightly made illegal actions that exclude or demean people as they go about their lives. But now instead of being used to secure protections for vulnerable people that need them, our idea of ‘tolerance’ has been hijacked by progressive SJW types who are wielding it as a weapon to impose a new moral order that demands total acceptance and compliance from everyone. The freedoms we take for granted living in a liberal democracy are being forcibly eroded by militant self-appointed moral stasi who insist we all believe and behave in the same way as them. Anyone who dares to transgress from their homogenised version of tolerance - which really just means we will tolerate you as long as your opinions and beliefs are in line with ours - faces instant and vindictive public vilification. Isn’t that just the definition of tolerance?!

 

[nobbyiscool]

Imagine dear Slarti’s cognitive dissonance and subsequent meltdown when he finally has to come to terms with the fact that the only observable discrimination that can reasonably be claimed to have occurred - as defined by the very laws and “rules” he is so staunchly and deservedly quoting in some misguided attempt to support his own erroneous arguments - is that of Rugby Australia/NSW against IF?

Whether or not Folau’s legal team will be able to present enough compelling arguments to overcome the diversionary tactics RA’s silks will no doubt employ in presenting it to be simply a straightforward matter of contract law, does anyone seriously believe this is the case? Does anyone actually think that Alan Joyce, CEO of Qantas, multi multi millionaire, champion of the public campaign for the push for marriage equality, savvy political and corporate wheeler dealer would really be so annoyed that Folau is allegedly in breach of his legal contract that it has caused him to reportedly - as RA’s principal sponsor - involve himself in the administrative affairs of another organisation and be putting the screws on rugby administrators behind the scenes to make a strong statement condemning such views...if it was simply a contract matter?
The truth is that Folau is to be sacked because the beliefs of his particular church and faith leads him to hold views that conflict with the leftist-progressive movement in which ‘diversity’ and ‘tolerance’ demands that we all think the same way about sexuality and gender. Australia has made great advances in protecting individuals and groups from certain forms of behavior. Anti-discrimination laws have rightly made illegal actions that exclude or demean people as they go about their lives. But now instead of being used to secure protections for vulnerable people that need them, our idea of ‘tolerance’ has been hijacked by progressive SJW types who are wielding it as a weapon to impose a new moral order that demands total acceptance and compliance from everyone. The freedoms we take for granted living in a liberal democracy are being forcibly eroded by militant self-appointed moral stasi who insist we all believe and behave in the same way as them. Anyone who dares to transgress from their homogenised version of tolerance - which really just means we will tolerate you as long as your opinions and beliefs are in line with ours - faces instant and vindictive public vilification. Isn’t that just the definition of tolerance?!

This is an outstanding attempt at the sweep in RWNJ bingo, well done.

 

[FrakturedHalo]

This is an outstanding attempt at the sweep in RWNJ bingo, well done.

Lol, yes and yours is also a textbook example of the rather clumsy strategy employed by those who consider themselves to be morally and intellectually superior based on which ideological “side” they identify with, to minimise and publicly ridicule those who they perceive to pose a threat or oppose their own views and values by denouncing them as right wing/conservative/neoliberal/republican redneck nutters.

Seriously, if you want to engage or you have something to contribute I welcome and am interested in hearing it, but if poor attempts at psychological bullying is all you’ve got, please

 

[nobbyiscool]

Lol, yes and yours is also a textbook example of the rather clumsy strategy employed by those who consider themselves to be morally and intellectually superior based on which ideological “side” they identify with, to minimise and publicly ridicule those who they perceive to pose a threat or oppose their own views and values by denouncing them as right wing/conservative/neoliberal/republican redneck nutters.

Seriously, if you want to engage or you have something to contribute I welcome and am interested in hearing it, but if poor attempts at psychological bullying is all you’ve got, please

Way to trivialise serious and legitimate issues with a self-pitying whinge.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Imagine dear Slarti’s cognitive dissonance and subsequent meltdown when he finally has to come to terms with the fact that the only observable discrimination that can reasonably be claimed to have occurred - as defined by the very laws and “rules” he is so staunchly and deservedly quoting in some misguided attempt to support his own erroneous arguments - is that of Rugby Australia/NSW against IF?

Whether or not Folau’s legal team will be able to present enough compelling arguments to overcome the diversionary tactics RA’s silks will no doubt employ in presenting it to be simply a straightforward matter of contract law, does anyone seriously believe this is the case? Does anyone actually think that Alan Joyce, CEO of Qantas, multi multi millionaire, champion of the public campaign for the push for marriage equality, savvy political and corporate wheeler dealer would really be so annoyed that Folau is allegedly in breach of his legal contract that it has caused him to reportedly - as RA’s principal sponsor - involve himself in the administrative affairs of another organisation and be putting the screws on rugby administrators behind the scenes to make a strong statement condemning such views...if it was simply a contract matter?
The truth is that Folau is to be sacked because the beliefs of his particular church and faith leads him to hold views that conflict with the leftist-progressive movement in which ‘diversity’ and ‘tolerance’ demands that we all think the same way about sexuality and gender. Australia has made great advances in protecting individuals and groups from certain forms of behavior. Anti-discrimination laws have rightly made illegal actions that exclude or demean people as they go about their lives. But now instead of being used to secure protections for vulnerable people that need them, our idea of ‘tolerance’ has been hijacked by progressive SJW types who are wielding it as a weapon to impose a new moral order that demands total acceptance and compliance from everyone. The freedoms we take for granted living in a liberal democracy are being forcibly eroded by militant self-appointed moral stasi who insist we all believe and behave in the same way as them. Anyone who dares to transgress from their homogenised version of tolerance - which really just means we will tolerate you as long as your opinions and beliefs are in line with ours - faces instant and vindictive public vilification. Isn’t that just the definition of tolerance?!

You are totally blind to the damage Issys comments have, you have complete disregard to the LGBIT community and it is you who expects people to conform to your wacko beliefs.
Ther harm that is done by leaders in the community saying flippant comments like you are going to hell just for being the person you were born as.
This is horrendous and your endorsement of this only Adds to their pain. Actually your attitude is abysmal.
At no stage have you showed one iota of compassion for the gay community , you have not even acknowledged them.

Workplace laws are well entrenched, you can not discriminate on the basis sexuality.
Issys is a public figure, his social media is well recognised in the public domain and as such part of his workplace environment. This was reinforced to him after he did this last year .

He made a choice to discriminate and he will pay the price.
YOUR lack of tolerance is typical of a religions who care only for themselves and alienate anyone who is not a part of it.
Issy could believe what he likes but when he wants to bring down people who have no say in their sexuality for the sake of him making a stand, his disregard for the suicide rates within this effected community oozes ignorance which you embrace .

Stop playing the victim, your defence of Issy is pitiful and warrants correcting. As for your interpretation of the laws, how can discriminating against gays be fair comment????

 

[Dixie Normous]

Has Issy thrown any instashade at the Sri Lankan bombing perpetrators yet?

 

[Evolved1]

I’m not being capricious; I’m confused. Folau didn’t keep his thoughts inside his head - he wrote them down on his computer & published them. If he was a private individual sharing his thoughts with a few mates it wouldn’t have caused much fuss.

He hasn’t been convicted of a crime anyway. Many people have been convicted when publishing their thoughts via the libel laws. Obviously these don’t apply to Folau as he’s got it in for the entire human race rather than individuals.

Having read some of the insightful opinions in this thread, I’ve changed my mind and decided that he should keep his job. We all have views that others find objectionable. Compassion and mercy are in short supply in this increasingly polarised world. we’re only just getting to grips with social media and the internet. 20 years ago this wasn’t even a thing.

Folau was given a formal warning and education of his expectations as an employee of RA regarding social media use about a year ago after a previous transgression. That's compassion and mercy.

The first time may have been an accident. The second time, there's no excuse.

If he posted that black people deserve to be burned eternally in flames because of the colour of their skin, would you have the same view? I see no difference; your sexuality isn't a choice either.

Publishing thoughts in media is an act. Your thoughts are yours alone until you choose to share them. The laws in place are for the betterment of society and protection of the freedoms of all, which is a balancing act of course. Freedom of religion and speech end where they impinge on the rights of others.

If I used my freedom of speech to post deeply offensive words online in such a way that they adversely affected the public image of my employer, I'd probably be sacked too.

 

[Evolved1]

No I’m not too young to understand it, unfortunately it seems some people lack the faculties to be able to take the main concept of the book that Orwell was communicating, that being that the danger totalitarianism poses to society and the degree of control a regime can acquire by seeking to rid people of independent thoughts and beliefs and obtain complete power over them by acquiring total belief and love for their sanctioned propaganda messages, and apply it to a modern day scenario

The ARU's social media policy seems standard for any large organisation. Do they not have the right to shape their public image, encourage an inclusive culture, and protect sponsorship deals that were paying Folau's massive salary?

That's the cost of professionalism in sport. As Folau seemingly didn't agree to the contractual expectations of his employer, I don't understand why he signed a massive long term contract with them.

I'm sure he can find a job elsewhere with an employer who values his sporting skills enough to overlook his bigoted views. Sponsor funding will be a little lighter, and that will be reflected in his pay cheque.

The market will decide his worth, which is the essence of economic freedom.

 

[Harro59]

What is strange is that the ARU would have known about Izzys religious beliefs as this is not then first time he has stated his opinion. So you ask the question, is he the best person as the face of your sport, considering you have had a few ahhh previous issues.

 

[Evolved1]

What is strange is that the ARU would have known about Izzys religious beliefs as this is not then first time he has stated his opinion. So you ask the question, is he the best person as the face of your sport, considering you have had a few ahhh previous issues.

He agreed to keep his trap shut, accepted the bags of silver like a good Judas, then...you know the rest.

It's funny to see the fundie crowd hold him up for his heroics. Lol

 

[Socrates2]

This article sums things up pretty well

Aussie UFC star Tai Tuivasa slams Israel Folau as a hypocrite: ‘I’ve seen you out blind as a skunk’
RUGBY
April 12, 2019 7:02pm
by STAFF WRITERS
Source: FOX SPORTS
Gloves off: Tai Tuivasa and Israel Folau.
Gloves off: Tai Tuivasa and Israel Folau.Source: FOX SPORTS

Australian UFC star Tai Tuivasa has lashed Israel Folau as a hypocrite, claiming he’s seen the rugby superstar “blind as a skunk” and carrying on like a “f**ing idiot” on a night out.
Joining the chorus of backlash against Folau’s anti-gay remarks, Tuivasa told the Daily Telegraph Folau needed “a hiding”.

“I know what I’ve seen that idiot do when he’s out and about”,” UFC heavyweight Tuivasa said.

“... I’ve seen you out blind as a skunk carrying on now you wanna be all churchy?

 

[Gough]

It's all plastic with Folau, a man of real faith would follow former All Black Michael Jones and refuse to play on a Sunday even if it meant missing a World Cup semi final. Issy is just posturing for the crowd in the cheap seats.

 

[pluggeranddoc]

This article sums things up pretty well

Aussie UFC star Tai Tuivasa slams Israel Folau as a hypocrite: ‘I’ve seen you out blind as a skunk’
RUGBY
April 12, 2019 7:02pm
by STAFF WRITERS
Source: FOX SPORTS
Gloves off: Tai Tuivasa and Israel Folau.
Gloves off: Tai Tuivasa and Israel Folau.Source: FOX SPORTS

Australian UFC star Tai Tuivasa has lashed Israel Folau as a hypocrite, claiming he’s seen the rugby superstar “blind as a skunk” and carrying on like a “f**ing idiot” on a night out.
Joining the chorus of backlash against Folau’s anti-gay remarks, Tuivasa told the Daily Telegraph Folau needed “a hiding”.

“I know what I’ve seen that idiot do when he’s out and about”,” UFC heavyweight Tuivasa said.

“... I’ve seen you out blind as a skunk carrying on now you wanna be all churchy?

Pretty sure Folau didn't claim to be the perfect example for Christians to follow!

 

[Socrates2]

Pretty sure Folau didn't claim to be the perfect example for Christians to follow!

?? So he wants to send himself to hell?

 

[Dunger]

?? So he wants to send himself to hell?

I'm not a christian but I'm guessing folau 'repents' on a regular basis so he can absolve himself of actions that would otherwise send him to 'hell'.

 

[Downhill Skier]

I'm not a christian but I'm guessing folau 'repents' on a regular basis so he can absolve himself of actions that would otherwise send him to 'hell'.

He has not always been deeply religious , he was a party boy and has openly admitted it but has changed his ways .

 

[spenze]

It's all plastic with Folau, a man of real faith would follow former All Black Michael Jones and refuse to play on a Sunday even if it meant missing a World Cup semi final. Issy is just posturing for the crowd in the cheap seats.

Well, you wouldn't be a true christian unless you picked and chose the aspects of it that appealed to you and disregarded the parts that were...just a touch inconvenient