Religion Folau

[Masher]

^^^^This was sarcism ..

I would like to see everyone who disagrees with me lose their jobs ...was a dig at the hypocrisy

If offended people can demand Israel lose his job then why can't everyone demand those that offend them lose their job

 

[Hodgey09]

That's par the course for many religions....its been done for centuries for all sinners not just gays

Also some of the vilest abuse I have heard personally and on social media is by atheists towards religious folks. I had a atheist friend who would mock religious people mercilessly and bully them. I don't want atheists to lose their jobs over that and I can't recall religious people demanding they lose their jobs

There's a whole lot of hypocrisy and intolerance going around

Appreciate you replying diplomatically.

Can definitely appreciate that there would be people commenting on those of religious persuasion in a disrespectful and offensive manner and I don't support that at all.

But I'm curious, you state that comments like Folau's are "par for the course for many religions" and have "been done for centuries", do you think that means it's justified to say what he said?

Again I'm not remotely trying to get into it with you, we obviously are coming at this from different angles and I believe I can certainly learn something and grow from chatting with you and doing my best to respectfully and intelligently understand where you're coming from on this particular topic.

 

[Kwality]

But I would love to know how you'd feel if someone of influence stated that a person exactly like you should go to hell for being exactly who you are.

Irrespective of who says what, if I dont respect their view, its water of a ducks back. Although I do accept others arent of the same view & react very differently. In this case if you dont believe, I'm staggered that you can be offended, is that too simplistic?
My experience is most Christians have their own arrangements with their God, see attendances at Church of a Sunday even though the Bible is very prescriptive, same as the Koran.
If you are an atheist, indignation is hard to put on Folaus head. Pile on is a # sort of thing these days, popular of the unrepresentative twitterati it seems to me.
Where did Folau post, why would anyone follow him anyway?

 

[Masher]

Appreciate you replying diplomatically.

Can definitely appreciate that there would be people commenting on those of religious persuasion in a disrespectful and offensive manner and I don't support that at all.

But I'm curious, you state that comments like Folau's are "par for the course for many religions" and have "been done for centuries", do you think that means it's justified to say what he said?

Again I'm not remotely trying to get into it with you, we obviously are coming at this from different angles and I believe I can certainly learn something and grow from chatting with you and doing my best to respectfully and intelligently understand where you're coming from on this particular topic.

I'm not here to defend Israel 100% - he made a very tough posting and he needs to wear the angry reactions

If we want to live in a truly free and modern society we have to expect people will disagree with all of us.
As I said previously I would prefer to err of the side of free speech as long as it doesn't advocate violence or deliberate attacks on an individual to spew hate

History has shown that societies that end up with govt control of the masses start off with a pc agenda and it gradually gets worse

Free speech has its problems but it is preferable to the alternative and sadly western nations like England, America etc are seeing pc agenda crossing the line where the average citizen can be penalised for having a different opinion

 

[Hodgey09]

That's par the course for many religions....its been done for centuries for all sinners not just gays

Also some of the vilest abuse I have heard personally and on social media is by atheists towards religious folks. I had a atheist friend who would mock religious people mercilessly and bully them. I don't want atheists to lose their jobs over that and I can't recall religious people demanding they lose their jobs

There's a whole lot of hypocrisy and intolerance going around

I'm not here to defend Israel 100% - he made a very tough posting and he needs to wear the angry reactions

If we want to live in a truly free and modern society we have to expect people will disagree with all of us.
As I said previously I would prefer to err of the side of free speech as long as it doesn't advocate violence or deliberate attacks on an individual to spew hate

History has shown that societies that end up with govt control of the masses start off with a pc agenda and it gradually gets worse

Free speech has its problems but it is preferable to the alternative and sadly western nations like England, America etc are seeing pc agenda crossing the line where the average citizen can be penalised for having a different opinion

The only other thing I'm curious about is do you think stating that gays are going to hell should be defined as a hate-supporting statement toward those of a homosexual persuasion or not?

But other than that we absolutely agree on the importance of maintaining freedom of speech in general terms.

I'm a journalism graduate so I've definitely done my fair share of looking into the effects of political correctness and the media and Australian media in particular is developing a dangerous tendency toward restricting a truly free and modern society, so I'm glad you wrote that post cause it certainly shows to me that we are absolutely agreeing on some points here.

We are discussing Folau in this thread obviously, but his case hits on some points far greater than this case alone.

 

[Masher]

The only other thing I'm curious about is do you think stating that gays are going to hell should be defined as a hate-supporting statement toward those of a homosexual persuasion or not?

Does Israel actually hate gays or any on that list ....my impressions is he doesn't
If he singled out gays only that would be unacceptable but he made a list of 8 and others have said it is a list he gets from the Bible.

It's what his religion believes and since he put it on his personal media I have no issue

We seem to tolerate anything Islamic far more than other religions and media and politicians will bend backwards to not offend Muslims but it has become very noticeable that other religions do not get the same courtesy.
BTW I believe most Muslims are decent people but I do wonder if a Muslim said this would there be there be the same outrage??

Another thing to consider religious beliefs are thousands of years old and many think they can wipe this way because we live in 2019
Look at the comments on here about footy clubs and the passion that flows over a sport and most clubs are not even 100 years old but people go crazy to defend their club.
Try to get a club to cease existing or change its jumper etc and you will see major emotionalism

This also would be interesting. What if an Indigenous person made similar comments because homosexuality was not part of their culture - would people be more reticent to comment as they would be accused of being racist.

Those who have said religious beliefs are crazy and intolerant would they say the same regarding Aboriginal beliefs from what Elders say below

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/rend...e/news-story/78299963aabd2c955b1d054efdcaa5ab

Despite the media grandstanding of gay and transgender members of the indigenous community, scores of Aboriginal elders have spoken out against same-sex marriage, claiming it is fundamentally opposed to indigenous community praxis.

Speaking to AAP recently, Peter Walker, an Aboriginal Elder from NSW, said that “the sacred and traditional union between man and woman is deeply part of our ancient and continuing culture across all of our communities”.

In 2015, Walker and dozens of elders from the indigenous community presented a bark petition backed by more than 46 indigenous groups and clans that urged members of federal parliament to oppose same-sex marriage.

 

[Hodgey09]

Does Israel actually hate gays or any on that list ....my impressions is he doesn't
If he singled out gays only that would be unacceptable but he made a list of 8 and others have said it is a list he gets from the Bible.

It's what his religion believes and since he put it on his personal media I have no issue

We seem to tolerate anything Islamic far more than other religions and media and politicians will bend backwards to not offend Muslims but it has become very noticeable that other religion do not get the same courtesy.

BTW I believe most Muslims are decent people and I do wonder if a Muslim said this would there be there be the same outrage

Another thing to consider religious beliefs are thousands of years old and many think they can wipe this way because we live in 2019
Look at the comments on here about footy clubs and the passion that flows over a sport and most clubs are not even 100 years old but people go crazy to defend their club.
Try to get a club to cease existing or change its jumper etc and you will see major emotionalism

That's cool, any information presented to any of us is subject to our opinion so I completely respect yours.

If I hear that all gays are gong to hell if they don't repent personally my take is that is hate speech, but you're completely correct in stating that gays are not the only group of people he comments on.

And also what I believe is as I said "my take", not fact at all.

Delving into muslim discussion is a different discussion, but that doesn't mean you're not raising a valid point.

All those aggressively going against Israel's take and religion should certainly address the fact that they should acknowledge all religious beliefs should be treated in an equal and balanced fashion and if other religious groups support a belief they do not agree with with regard to homosexuality they should approach it in the same way they are approaching Israels beliefs with regard to their commentary.

 

[Masher]

That's cool, any information presented to any of us is subject to our opinion so I completely respect yours.

If I hear that all gays are gong to hell if they don't repent personally my take is that is hate speech, but you're completely correct in stating that gays are not the only group of people he comments on.

And also what I believe is as I said "my take", not fact at all.

Delving into muslim discussion is a different discussion, but that doesn't mean you're not raising a valid point.

All those aggressively going against Israel's take and religion should certainly address the fact that they should acknowledge all religious beliefs should be treated in an equal and balanced fashion and if other religious groups support a belief they do not agree with with regard to homosexuality they should approach it in the same way they are approaching Israels beliefs with regard to their commentary.

I followed up and added a news report on my previous post about Aboriginal Culture and what Elders say -

 

[Hodgey09]

I followed up and added a news report on my previous post about Aboriginal Culture and what Elders say -

Yeah sorry man,

Didn't catch that until just before.

Appreciate it, interesting reading.

 

[Slartibartfast]

He wrote what he believed was sin
People are free to agree or disagree in a true modern society

The new comrades/fascists want to silence everyone except their own bigotry

I would like to see everyone who disagrees with me lose their jobs

Keep on hating masher.

You do understand comrades (communists) and fascists are poles apart???haha

Now back to Issy, his hate causes so much pain. Totally unnessessary , hopefully loses his job for his pathetic grandstanding.
ASCICS have dumped him, are they fascists or communist???

When he says they are sins and going to hell this has an effect on the youth who are gay. I understand you have no concept or care about this group of people buy they suffer , they question the society they live in , they contemplate suicide when role models like Issy dismiss who they are so flippantly . But you feel it is more important for Issy to be able to say what he likes than care about the vilifying of these people.
Issy can say what he likes but the community should be able to hold him accountable for his words if they deem them offensive.

Shame he did not learn his lesson last year when he was warned of what would happen if he vilified people again.

 

[HairyO]

You do realise that Joyce is as camp as a row tents.

Openly gay.

Which is why it highlights who he really is when he signs agreements with countries where being gay is illegal.

Yes , 7 of them were things done by choice.
1 was not a choice but how the person was made.
Big difference.
Being gay is not a sin.

Its a sin punishable by prison, execution, or just being thrown off a building in a whole heap of countries where QANTAS has business deals.

But apparently a quote on Twitter is far more dangerous.

 

[Strange Cat]

OK, but what happened to the respect of his religion and beliefs?

No one is banning him from believing in what he believes in...he just ignored the previous warnings of his workplace not to post that sort of thing in the social media

He ignore it

He gets the sack

Nothing to do with his beliefs, it just a case of a ****head ignoring his workplace code of conduct. You think he would be bright enough enough after his previous warning to pull his head in...but no everyone is making it out to be a religion issue

 

[aflfootyfanatic]

Stupid beliefs don't deserve respect.

well clearly you're an atheist

 

[Gralin]

Folau named 8 sins according to what he believes but 7 are ignored and notice the main focus is on gays.

It doesn't take Einstein to work out that gay's are now a protected class but you can tell everyone else to go to hell... that is the very definition of hypocrisy and the brave new world

I accept this is your comment on a post, can I ask, should equality = tolerance?

Intolerance clearly at play here, Folau repeating his previously well publicised comments is not tolerated ... are the offended of the view that they had closed down his right to speak, & the current indignation reflects that failure, double down & scream louder.
Why is one side right & the other wrong, I can handle both, offence is a bit self indulgent in my experience, disagree & get on with it.
Perhaps its me ..

Is this really about Folau views?
Is any imputed criticism of the gay community unacceptable? No one has leapt to the defence of liars, fornicators, et al .... is it Folaus views OR a well oiled PR machine with its elbows up.
Tell you whats absent here: respect & neither party gives a continental about the other.

Same answer for both of you.
The reason homosexuality is being picked up as the one to worry about is because the rest are choices, you choose to drink, lie, cheat, steal, etc

You don't choose your sexual orientation. Saying I think people who drink alocohol are bad is an opinion on someone else's choices. Saying I think people who engage in same sex relationships are bad is not an opinion on someone else's choice, it's saying they were born wrong.

Why should we tolerate a view that says that?

 

[Gough]

Does Israel actually hate gays or any on that list ....my impressions is he doesn't
If he singled out gays only that would be unacceptable but he made a list of 8 and others have said it is a list he gets from the Bible.

It's what his religion believes and since he put it on his personal media I have no issue

We seem to tolerate anything Islamic far more than other religions and media and politicians will bend backwards to not offend Muslims but it has become very noticeable that other religions do not get the same courtesy.
BTW I believe most Muslims are decent people but I do wonder if a Muslim said this would there be there be the same outrage??

Another thing to consider religious beliefs are thousands of years old and many think they can wipe this way because we live in 2019
Look at the comments on here about footy clubs and the passion that flows over a sport and most clubs are not even 100 years old but people go crazy to defend their club.
Try to get a club to cease existing or change its jumper etc and you will see major emotionalism

This also would be interesting. What if an Indigenous person made similar comments because homosexuality was not part of their culture - would people be more reticent to comment as they would be accused of being racist.

Those who have said religious beliefs are crazy and intolerant would they say the same regarding Aboriginal beliefs from what Elders say below

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/rend...e/news-story/78299963aabd2c955b1d054efdcaa5ab

I'd say the concept of a giant rainbow serpent forming the landscape of outback Australia is every bit as absurd and laughable as Folau's views or the suicide bomber who thinks he's going to be furnished with a whole bunch of virgins in the afterlife.

 

[Del191229]

Alan Jones on this matter is just hilarious.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Alan Jones on this matter is just hilarious.

Most of Alan Jones views are less than hilarious i would say.
The mans a joke and a attention seeker and a numpty and has zero street credit.

 

[Chief]

Does Israel actually hate gays or any on that list ....my impressions is he doesn't
If he singled out gays only that would be unacceptable but he made a list of 8 and others have said it is a list he gets from the Bible.

It's what his religion believes and since he put it on his personal media I have no issue

We seem to tolerate anything Islamic far more than other religions and media and politicians will bend backwards to not offend Muslims but it has become very noticeable that other religions do not get the same courtesy.
BTW I believe most Muslims are decent people but I do wonder if a Muslim said this would there be there be the same outrage??

Another thing to consider religious beliefs are thousands of years old and many think they can wipe this way because we live in 2019
Look at the comments on here about footy clubs and the passion that flows over a sport and most clubs are not even 100 years old but people go crazy to defend their club.
Try to get a club to cease existing or change its jumper etc and you will see major emotionalism

This also would be interesting. What if an Indigenous person made similar comments because homosexuality was not part of their culture - would people be more reticent to comment as they would be accused of being racist.

Those who have said religious beliefs are crazy and intolerant would they say the same regarding Aboriginal beliefs from what Elders say below

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/rend...e/news-story/78299963aabd2c955b1d054efdcaa5ab

Those beliefs expressed by those elders are intolerant.

But they don’t have employment contracts telling them it is a breach if they post those beliefs on social media.

 

[Del191229]

Most of Alan Jones views are less than hilarious i would say.
The mans a joke and a attention seeker and a numpty and has zero street credit.

I meant it kind of sarcastically, you're right, he's awful.

 

[CheapCharlie]

Sales rise and fall, 3% would be within the standard deviation. In case you hadn't noticed people don't buy razors every week, usually once every couple of months (especially if they buy an 8 pack), so fluctuations would be normal.

But hey, I'm just using sound logic, not right wing rage.

3% sales decline is massive for a company like Gillette dealing in hundreds of millions units every quarter.
Not within standard deviation at all

 

[Masher]

A man or woman is born with gay desires so has gay sex

Why can't a man or woman be born with a desire to not be monogomous and therefore fornicates with many people???

What about a bisexual does he/she have a choice or can they be born that way???

 

[Aussie in exile]

I do wonder if there will be knock on effect of people of PI descent playing RU in Australia who share similar views to Izzy.

 

[Mike Smyth]

BigFooty's conservatives are brain damaged. Homophobia with impunity is over.

Good luck convincing your Muslim comrades of this.

 

[Masher]

I'd say the concept of a giant rainbow serpent forming the landscape of outback Australia is every bit as absurd and laughable as Folau's views or the suicide bomber who thinks he's going to be furnished with a whole bunch of virgins in the afterlife.

Those beliefs expressed by those elders are intolerant.
.

Will Slartibartfast be equally mocking of Aboriginal customs against homosexual lifestyle as he is of religion in general?

 

[Bomberboyokay]

MUSLIMS

You're about 3 people late.