Footy, Religion and Politics

[RogersResults]

There is some romance in the name but it is also clear that the nickname the kangaroos started being adopted more from the 1950s.

North has a mascot.

 

[RogersResults]

While sectarian divisions were rife in Melbourne, Geelong opted for Voodoo.​

President Jack Jennings prepares to bury the bomber fetish in the sacred mud at Kardinia Park in 1951.
Two feathered fetishes were to follow in coming years. (Old Corio Oval already had two magpies and a tiger totem buried beneath it.)
The practice died out in 2007 when it could not be decided which to bury, a pole or a point.

Source: Classic Cats.​

 

[steady2]

Church of Ireland are fake Prods, as are even Church of England.

You'll go to hell saying that! Everybody knows god is Church of England.

 

[Mero]

Just on the OP suggestion that Footscray's colours were in some way associated with Glaswegians and Protestantism.
I am going to say this is unlikely.
When Footscray was formed, there were very few alternatives for jumpers.
Clubs like Melbourne, Carlton, Essendon, wore Blue
The other option was for stripes (what we call Hoops today) of two colours.
Many clubs wore Blue and White, Geelong, North, South, and also Footscray adopted the same design.
Of other variations, only StKilda Black and Red hoops, and Albert Pk (later merged with South) Red and White hoops are listed amongst the variations.
All other Senior, Junior and School teams wore either Blue, or Blue & White.
Clubs would then decorate the rest of their uniforms to distinguish them from other clubs.
South & Essendon wore a Red sash, for instance. Richmond wore a Black and Yellow sash on their Blue jumper.
Footscray had a successful rowing club, and this team all wore Red caps.
So the football club adopted the Red cap as their way of not looking like every other team wearing Blue and White striped (hooped) jumpers.
Eventually when they got jumpers made, they first simply added the red to the design, but the next year had the stripes run up and down, like we think of stripes these days.
They then played with the Red, White and Blue a fair bit, changing the jumpers a fair bit from 1886 to 1901, having 7 different designs in 15 years.
In 1900 they ran a public competition for designs for the new century, and while it appears there was no winner, and that the board chose to their own design, that design is used today as the Home jumper, Blue with a Red and a White band.
All the designs can be seen on the Pre VFL/AFL page on the Footscray section of my website: www.footyjumpers.com

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I know that, but quite sure that Essendon were also "blood stained" of a different and much more offensive variety.

Correct. Very early days and not sure how "official" the nickname was.

Stemmed from the jumper obviously - red on black - as South were the "Blood Stained Angels", we were that.

The Same Olds was more predominant I think, and later obviously the Bombers became the official nickname.

 

[royals1922]

Correct. Very early days and not sure how "official" the nickname was.

Stemmed from the jumper obviously - red on black - as South were the "Blood Stained Angels", we were that.

The Same Olds was more predominant I think, and later obviously the Bombers became the official nickname.

Let's not get too hung up about the use of the word "n****r". While totally offensive today, I did a search of the newspapers in Trove of the word "n****r" prior to 1905. There were in excess of 48,500 references.

It was a common place term that became subsequently offensive as society changed.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Let's not get too hung up about the use of the word "n****r". While totally offensive today, I did a search of the newspapers in Trove of the word "n****r" prior to 1905. There were in excess of 48,500 references.

It was a common place term that became subsequently offensive as society changed.

Yeah I know. I'm not judging the people of the time, just answering the question.

 

[fabulousphil]

Let's not get too hung up about the use of the word "n****r". While totally offensive today, I did a search of the newspapers in Trove of the word "n****r" prior to 1905. There were in excess of 48,500 references.

It was a common place term that became subsequently offensive as society changed.

Totally correct, look what has happened to the word gay

The English language and meaning of words is always changing, new words coming and going, old words returning with a different meaning.

I remember watching 20 to 1 a while ago, when Bert Newton referred to Muhammed Ali, as "what a boy " or something similar, not as a insult that a American from the deep South might use as a racist insult, but he used it in a friendly way that an Australian would use.

Luckily for Newton, Ali after initially taking offense, saw that Newton was not having a go.

Depeding on who says it, etc, calling someone a n****r, darkie, choco, etc can also be a term of affection.

Choco Williams actually has a African background and his great great grandfather was was a slave.


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...ndad-was-a-slave/story-e6frecj3-1225759390645

HE'S known as Choco, but the origin of Mark Williams' dark skin - and the family's athletic prowess - has always been a mystery...until now.
Research into the family bloodline has revealed that the Port Adelaide coach and SA's most successful football family are the descendants of an African-Jamaican slave

 

[Atch]

Totally correct, look what has happened to the word gay

The English language and meaning of words is always changing, new words coming and going, old words returning with a different meaning.

I remember watching 20 to 1 a while ago, when Bert Newton referred to Muhammed Ali, as "what a boy " or something similar, not as a insult that a American from the deep South might use as a racist insult, but he used it in a friendly way that an Australian would use.

Luckily for Newton, Ali after initially taking offense, saw that Newton was not having a go.

Depeding on who says it, etc, calling someone a n****r, darkie, choco, etc can also be a term of affection.

Choco Williams actually has a African background and his great great grandfather was was a slave.


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...ndad-was-a-slave/story-e6frecj3-1225759390645

HE'S known as Choco, but the origin of Mark Williams' dark skin - and the family's athletic prowess - has always been a mystery...until now.
Research into the family bloodline has revealed that the Port Adelaide coach and SA's most successful football family are the descendants of an African-Jamaican slave

So choco is part african, not aboriginal?

 

[sherbrook]

Let's not get too hung up about the use of the word "n****r". While totally offensive today, I did a search of the newspapers in Trove of the word "n****r" prior to 1905. There were in excess of 48,500 references.

It was a common place term that became subsequently offensive as society changed.

In the 1960s my friends and I used to enjoy a product called "N***** Boy Licorice" so it took a while to die out

 

[sherbrook]

Let's not get too hung up about the use of the word "n****r". While totally offensive today, I did a search of the newspapers in Trove of the word "n****r" prior to 1905. There were in excess of 48,500 references.

It was a common place term that became subsequently offensive as society changed.

In the 1960s my friends and I used to enjoy a product called "N***** Boy Licorice" so it took a while to die out

 

[Atch]

In the 1960s my friends and I used to enjoy a product called "N***** Boy Licorice" so it took a while to die out

my parents have talked about that licorice before, what a weird name to call it haha, i mean i would love to hear the marketing behind it?

 

[Hot Pocket]

We had a tube of "Sambo" toothpaste as recently as the 90's here. My folks are pretty keen racists though.

 

[royals1922]

Just did a search of the word "n****r" on Trove until 1940. There were 279,000 references to that word alone in newspapers to that time.

It is the bane of historical perspective.

 

[royals1922]

By the way, the supposed nickname of Essendon as the Bloodstained..... appears to be totally undocumented on Trove. Same Olds get a run but not the other name

 

[Hot Pocket]

By the way, the supposed nickname of Essendon as the Bloodstained..... appears to be totally undocumented on Trove. Same Olds get a run but not the other name

I dare say it was an unofficial nickname. It seems a lot of nicknames worked that way.

I think the Dees subbed themselves the Demons for a year or two before it became official. Definitely more intimidating than the Fuschias in any case.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

By the way, the supposed nickname of Essendon as the Bloodstained..... appears to be totally undocumented on Trove. Same Olds get a run but not the other name

Definitely was never an official nickname.

No nicknames were really official back in the older days, though some were quite well known and later adopted in an "official" capacity.

Heard a few older supporters talk of it - they can remember hearing about it in the crowd maybe as late as the early 1950s. Not out of the club itself.

 

[fabulousphil]

Definitely was never an official nickname.

No nicknames were really official back in the older days, though some were quite well known and later adopted in an "official" capacity.

Heard a few older supporters talk of it - they can remember hearing about it in the crowd maybe as late as the early 1950s. Not out of the club itself.

Same as the Shinboners, undocumented as well, but dates back to the very early years of North.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Definitely was never an official nickname.

No nicknames were really official back in the older days, though some were quite well known and later adopted in an "official" capacity.

Heard a few older supporters talk of it - they can remember hearing about it in the crowd maybe as late as the early 1950s. Not out of the club itself.

Just in addition, EFCs first indigenous player, Norm McDonald, debuted for the club in 1947.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The great US sports broadcaster Howard Cosell who worked on radio in the 1950's - was stopped working on TV because the ABC big wigs for almost a decade because they didn't like he was Jewish - then on TV from mid 1960's to late 1980's


The importance that our society attaches to sport is incredible. After all, is football a game or a religion? The people of this country have allowed sports to get completely out of hand.

 

[Michael Riley]

Finally finished my article on the introduction of the VFL Seconds and the inclusion of University in the league.

I am sure that there are many factors for the selection of University in the League, but Class must have been one of the major factors.
The relationship between the VFL and MJFA changed dramatically from all love in 1908 to anger soon after.

I would say that that prior to 1908 there is a clear indication that the VFL's decision to include St Kilda and Univeristy and cozy up to the MJFA were very much aspects of a class based elitism, but by 1910-11 there was a new view that professionalism was the key. Rather than take decisions to support University or to continue their integration with the Amateurs, University was dumped and the amateurs also dumped as the VFL set up their own seconds competiton.

To me this seems to have been much more than just a period where player payments were finally accepted, but rather a point where the philosophy of the League had a big change in direction.

Class and Warfare: The MAFA and the VFL Seconds

 

[Aut Vincere Aut Mori]

The problem with deducing what people thought and felt from public utterances is that, in an atmosphere of patriotic hysteria, they were never likely to say anything that implied they weren't patriotic. There was also sometimes a desire to use the symbolism of Anzac in ways that were subversive. A classic example is of when the government tried to ban the St Patrick's Day march by passing a regulation that all public processions has to be preceded by the Union Jack. In Melbourne they got around this by getting all the Irish/Australian VC winners to ride in front of them in full uniform and on horseback holding giant Irish flags. Then, in front of them, they paid the shabbiest looking dero they could find to hold a tiny Union Jack and plied him full of whiskey so that he could drunkenly stumble in front of the procession.

It was Collingwood's John Wren that organised the VC's, all on brilliantly white horses. The man with the Union Jack was a poorly dressed drunk. Daniel Mannix knew how to manipulate the regulations to fulfill any statutory obligations and also to make a political point.

 

[Aut Vincere Aut Mori]

Finally finished my article on the introduction of the VFL Seconds and the inclusion of University in the league.

I am sure that there are many factors for the selection of University in the League, but Class must have been one of the major factors.
The relationship between the VFL and MJFA changed dramatically from all love in 1908 to anger soon after.

I would say that that prior to 1908 there is a clear indication that the VFL's decision to include St Kilda and Univeristy and cozy up to the MJFA were very much aspects of a class based elitism, but by 1910-11 there was a new view that professionalism was the key. Rather than take decisions to support University or to continue their integration with the Amateurs, University was dumped and the amateurs also dumped as the VFL set up their own seconds competiton.

To me this seems to have been much more than just a period where player payments were finally accepted, but rather a point where the philosophy of the League had a big change in direction.

Class and Warfare: The MAFA and the VFL Seconds

The VFL were planning to introduce their own Junior Football League prior to the 1st world war but this was delayed. It commenced in 1919 while the MAFA (VAFA) was still in recess. It included a number of teams from the MAFA. The intention was that each VFL Club would have a team representative of their district. Richmond Districts, Leopold (later SM reserves), University A, University B (Melbourne reps), West Melbourne (Essendon's Rep), Collingwood Districts, Fitzroy Juniors, and Carlton Districts. The Beverley Football Club was meant to be the Richmond team but it failed to reform after the war recess. Their choice to join the VJFL may have been more to do with the fact that the MAFA was still in recess in 1918 rather than any other consideration. Leopold were always quite proud that they were a purely amateur club so it was not to do with professionalism. I get the impression that the VJFL (later to become the VFL seconds in 1925) was the VFL's attempt to be a rival to the VJFA that seemed to be aligned with the VFA. The VJFA commenced in 1886 as a second tier competition to the more serious VFA. It eventually became the VFA 2nd XVIII competition in 1928.
Rather than dumping University in the post war period, they embraced two University teams in the newly formed VJFL. The VFL also considered admitting a Public Service team which had been successful in the VFL Sub Districts competition. The team would have included members of the Fire Brigade, Police etc. not just PS clerks. The VFL and VFA were in a battle for the political control of the game and class or religious considerations were peripheral.

 

[Todman]

Sectarianism was so bad in Albury that they did something drastic. The towns two leading clubs were Albury and St. Patricks. St Patricks formed in 1919 and made the Grand final nearly every year. This team drew all the Catholics in town. Albury wasn't as successful until 1927 drew the rest. Violence was rife whether in the crowd at games of within the town.
There were pubs you couldn't safely walk into if you had the wrong beliefs.

1929.
They solved this problem by disbanding both Albury and St Patricks and creating two new teams East Albury and West Albury. Players were tied to either team by residency and no exceptions were allowed. Enforcing multiculturalism though football.

East and West Albury merged in 1933 to form Albury. North Albury was formed in 1946.