Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8

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I think people have got to remember how many coaches we have had since 2004. We are kidding ourselves if we continue to just blame the coach. The consistent people that have been at the club the whole time are the people that should get the blame. Our CEO for one..

Rutten may not be the right person for the job but those who have been here since 2004 have proven that they are not capable. The only coach since 2004 that has shown capability to take this club forward was hird. Most likely because he had the power through members and the board to do whatever the hell he wanted. Somethings up at the club and it’s far bigger than the coach
 
cobra land said:
Well you have to play with the list you have unfortunately and as I've said previously it seemed to work last season, I thought we may have continued to implement that same style with a few minor tweaks ?
Instead we are back to the style that Worsfold had us playing.
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With all due respect, seems like you’re after a bob each way.

You want us to stick with the rubbish from last year that was essentially just dogs chasing a ball around a park but at the same time implement a game style to win more games.

This is how we get there. Break it down before it can be rebuilt, Rutten is still firmly breaking it down, and it wouldn’t surprise me if we stay in that phase for the next 12 months.

Modulate expectations to suit, you’ll sleep better.
 
boncer34 said:
No.

Taking the easy win for short term gains to please the supporter base has happened for the past 20 years.

It hasn't been fun.
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Please, we made the eight last season so it worked, just tweak it to suit our list.
They way we are playing at the moment is pathetic and we are losing supporters in droves, just read the comments on here.
I refuse to go and watch that crap they're playing at the moment and I have been a members for over 25 years and I can't remember ever feeling this way.
FWIW I'm not in the sack Rutten camp but he needs to change the way were playing because the club is a laughing stock at the moment.
 

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TheGrizz said:
No I wouldn't.

I would rather take a broom to the list and sweep out any player who wants to do his own thing and not give 100% effort and follow coaching direction.

I would also prefer to recruit to a strategy, with specific traits that winning teams have (competitiveness, effort, pressure, discipline) over speculative, talented types.

I would then afford the supposed two strategic architects of the most brutally efficient pressure team of the last 30 years the ability to coach up a team that is actually going to try and do what the coaches ask of them.

What I dont want is to play a bruise free, front running brand of footy because that is what the players want, then sack our 7th coach since Sheedy because we lost yet another bruise free final.
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At the risk of looking like mods patting each other on the back, ******* spot on
 
cobra land said:
Please, we made the eight last season so it worked, just tweak it to suit our list.
They way we are playing at the moment is pathetic and we are losing supporters in droves, just read the comments on here.
I refuse to go and watch that crap they're playing at the moment and I have been a members for over 25 years and I can't remember ever feeling this way.
FWIW I'm not in the sack Rutten camp but he needs to change the way were playing because the club is a laughing stock at the moment.
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Yes. It got us into the 8. And then it got wrecked week 1.

****ing lol at the "read the comments on here."

Usual suspects rocking up after a loss to have a sook. Oh no, how heartbreaking. Maybe they should grow up.
 
JayJ20 said:
I don't know why people cannot see that the players are the problem. Truck wants to base his brand of football on pressure and contested football. That's the right way to win a premiership. The players aren't following directions, particularly the senior mids. Unfortunately at the moment, we have no one on the list to replace underperforming senior players because we have no midfield depth.

What Rutten has to do is undo all the list management mistakes made by Dodoro, the rest of the list managers and the previous coaches (who gave into fan demand to win meaningless H&A games by playing attacking football that doesn't stand up in finals). He has to build a contested side through aggressive trading and clever drafting.

He's essentially at the beginning of where Hardwick was at Richmond and Goodwin was at Melbourne
The real test for Rutten is how he handles the off-season. I'm hoping for an aggressive off-season that fixes our midfield balance and adds more blue-collar type players to our list. We also desperately need to improve our marking ability around the ground.
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Agree with this. There are few who are willing and too many switch off. Perkins, Hobbs, Laverde, Caldwell, Durham, Redman consistently crack in.

As for marking, Draper needs to capitalise on his athleticism and we need to get Nic Cox out there.
 
Zach Package said:
With all due respect, seems like you’re after a bob each way.

You want us to stick with the rubbish from last year that was essentially just dogs chasing a ball around a park but at the same time implement a game style to win more games.

This is how we get there. Break it down before it can be rebuilt, Rutten is still firmly breaking it down, and it wouldn’t surprise me if we stay in that phase for the next 12 months.

Modulate expectations to suit, you’ll sleep better.
Click to expand...

Im going to take it that you were expecting us to be shit this year. Most aren't surprised us going backwards but sitting third last behind two shambles of football clubs, yeah, that's reason enough to begrudge what is going on.
 
Only got half the press conference coz Channel 7 likes the sound of their own voices better:
  • Comprehensively beaten, scoreboard flattered us. Contest work, pressure, tackling so much better than ours.
  • The night, ground, opposition demanded a contested high pressure tackling game and we weren't up for it.
  • Swans were up for the fight. Look across our squad/team didn't show the resolve or steely-ness to maintain that we needed to, got off track and didn't get back on it.
  • Near the contest it is easier to tackle because the ball is right there, but when you're further away and you're slow to react, second to the ball, it's harder. Lots of missed/broken tackles (this is his favourite stat I think)
  • sigh
  • Asked about Shiel: Yeah you're right, don't want to single players out. Game requires to run, tackle, win the ball, chase out after it, surging and .... [some other stuff I didn't catch]. Senior players have to get down and do the work and show the way. Tonight was a night that required it, didn't do it.
 
On-field leadership seems like more of an issue than the coach.
 

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BomberManU said:
Is Rutten really going to be given the time to turn over the list? It's the only sane course of action, but will take a long, long time. Footy clubs aren't the most patient organisations.
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Nail. Hammer. Head.

Well said.
 
cobra land said:
Well you have to play with the list you have unfortunately and as I've said previously it seemed to work last season, I thought we may have continued to implement that same style with a few minor tweaks ?
Instead we are back to the style that Worsfold had us playing.
Click to expand...
You do realise that Woosha did what you want Rutten to do right? Made finals in 2017 playing an attacking brand of football. Regressed at the beginning of 2018 trying to teach and implement a defensive element to our game. The players started learning the brand by the end of the year. Completely abandoned defence in 2019 because we started shit. The rest is history.
cobra land said:
Please, we made the eight last season so it worked, just tweak it to suit our list.
They way we are playing at the moment is pathetic and we are losing supporters in droves, just read the comments on here.
I refuse to go and watch that crap they're playing at the moment and I have been a members for over 25 years and I can't remember ever feeling this way.
FWIW I'm not in the sack Rutten camp but he needs to change the way were playing because the club is a laughing stock at the moment.
Click to expand...
What he needs to do is change the list, not revert to an attacking brand of football that won't stand up in finals. The way we're currently playing is not his direction. Last year, we were by far the best tackling team in the competition. The players have decided that they don't want to tackle anymore. I'm 100% certain that Rutten didn't tell them to stop tackling.
We need a coach that sticks to his guns and actually sees his vision through. Otherwise, the whole club will continue to be bereft of leaders.
 
BomberManU said:
Is Rutten really going to be given the time to turn over the list? It's the only sane course of action, but will take a long, long time. Footy clubs aren't the most patient organisations.
Click to expand...
I was at a function last week where Simon Madden (Board Member) spoke. He said it will be “a tough 3-4-5 years” of development / pain

The board think it or know it. The pressure will become immense if the team continues this way. It will be interesting who goes first, the board or the coach.

Personally, I think we have good talent on our list. Why they are playing like fairy floss, I don’t know.
 
JayJ20 said:
You do realise that Woosha did what you want Rutten to do right? Made finals in 2017 playing an attacking brand of football. Regressed at the beginning of 2018 trying to teach and implement a defensive element to our game. The players started learning the brand by the end of the year. Completely abandoned defence in 2019 because we started shit. The rest is history.

What he needs to do is change the list, not revert to an attacking brand of football that won't stand up in finals. The way we're currently playing is not his direction. Last year, we were by far the best tackling team in the competition. The players have decided that they don't want to tackle anymore. I'm 100% certain that Rutten didn't tell them to stop tackling.
We need a coach that sticks to his guns and actually sees his vision through. Otherwise, the whole club will continue to be bereft of leaders.
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Yep keep the excuses coming, we have gone backwards which ever way you dress it.
Good coaches will change the style of play if it's not working but hey nothing to see here, we are flying.
 
bacon buster said:
I was at a function last week where Simon Madden (Board Member) spoke. He said it will be “a tough 3-4-5 years” of development / pain

The board think it or know it. The pressure will become immense if the team continues this way. It will be interesting who goes first, the board or the coach.

Personally, I think we have good talent on our list. Why they are playing like fairy floss, I don’t know.
Click to expand...
I can tell you right now.
 
Bombermania said:
The problem with Clarko is when he coached Hawthorn there was an ingrained culture that demanded success and if it wasn't delivered guys like Dermie and Jason would not hesitate to poke the finger.
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Hawks had been a bunch of soft ***** for 20 odd years before Clarko even started. Took Mark Johnson rag dolling one of their boys to really set Dermie alight

Similar to us right now really
 
The Bomb said:
Blue collar = Mills 13 tackles
Neeld and Tim Watson level coaching.
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Parish 1, Merrett 1, McGrath 2, Shiel 2...

Not sure you can blame the coach for the effort/ missed tackles but I am keen to know why players are zoning rather than going man on man and why we seem to be allowing players to run into position unchallenged week in, week out. Why does our structure keep falling over and why do we continue to allow opposition teams to dissect our defence so easily? it kind of reminds me of the Matthew Knights era. \

Is it a game plan issue?
 
DERO said:
Parish 1, Merrett 1, McGrath 2, Shiel 2...

Not sure you can blame the coach for the effort/ missed tackles but I am keen to know why players are zoning rather than going man on man and why we seem to be allowing players to run into position unchallenged week in, week out. Why does our structure keep falling over and why do we continue to allow opposition teams to dissect our defence so easily? it kind of reminds me of the Matthew Knights era. \

Is it a game plan issue?
Click to expand...
It's a players having a sook at being told to be accountable and not play bruise free football issue.

Exactly like Knights actually.
 
Would be very happy for him to drop all the senior players that aren’t doing what’s asked/expected of them, even if we don’t have the players to replace them. Players like McBride or Mcdonagh can take Shiel and co’s positions and we can lose every game by 100 points for all I care. Don’t let them play unless they’re prepared to play the way they’re expected to.
 

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Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8

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