News Fraser off the hook again

[mdc]

Fraser was getting monstered by Brent Renouf. OKish is being fairly generous to him.

Renouf is not nearly as bad as some would suggest. I rate him alongside Wood as a tap ruckamn (although not as good around the ground). Jolly got beat as well.

And against Melbourne and the Dogs, I actually thought Fraser outrucked Jolly (mind you this says more about Jolly though).

But it's all largely irrelevant. If he only rucks 25%, the difference between good and shit is like 2-3 hitouts.

 

[smiddaz123]

Renouf is not nearly as bad as some would suggest. I rate him alongside Wood as a tap ruckamn (although not as good around the ground). Jolly got beat as well.

Renouf is hardly a dud, but he's a young ruckman. When I say monstered, I mean thrown around like he was a doll of some sorts. If Fraser can't match Renouf in that department, then he's going to really struggle most ruckmen. The very few he'll be able to outbody will be far more athletic and have a better jump than Fraser. Jolly was beaten, but obviously is more than able to hold his own body strength wise.

And against Melbourne and the Dogs, I actually thought Fraser outrucked Jolly (mind you this says more about Jolly though)
But it's all largely irrelevant. If he only rucks 25%, the difference between good and shit is like 2-3 hitouts.

I can handle Fraser not winning the tap if he's not just getting thrown to the side and letting the opposition ruckman casually palm it down. At the very least, he needs to be making life difficult for the opposition, but he isn't even doing that really.

FWIW, Malthouse on Fraser today.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/92831/default.aspx

“He’ll spend 50 per cent in the ruck and probably 25 to 30 per cent as another type of player, whether it be an additional midfielder, wing or forward", he said.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/92831/default.aspx

 

[danielnajdek]

told ya he won't drop fraser and probably leigh brown.

 

[the_fresh]

I've been on about it for years and most of you who are having a go at Fraser now were up in arms that someone could turn on one of our own.
The fact is he is not a ruckman, at best he's a tall wingman, he is a waste of the number 1 draft pick.

 

[Go Pies!!!!!]

fraser is playiong because he replacement ruckman is still finding form after only returning from injury last week.

Extract your head from your asses, its not about draft pick number, not about favorites, his replacment has only just returned from injury, get over it

^^^^ this

 

[Invigoration]

I've been on about it for years and most of you who are having a go at Fraser now were up in arms that someone could turn on one of our own.
The fact is he is not a ruckman, at best he's a tall wingman, he is a waste of the number 1 draft pick.

You know this thread is about Josh Fraser right? The big tall dopey looking one that has been maligned for virtually all his years at the club?

Trust me mate, you certainly weren't inventing the wheel or penning 1984 by saying what you did a few years ago, in fact by that stage the whole wagon had already been made and the band were all struggling to find a seat.

 

[surfer1]

Fraser is playiong because he replacement ruckman is still finding form after only returning from injury last week.

Extract your head from your asses, its not about draft pick number, not about favorites, his replacment has only just returned from injury, get over it

Thnak god for some sanity and logic

 

[Mickaman]

Has to play this week at least if not another couple due to Wood just returning. If anything Josh should be inspired after last years comments by Grant Thomas about the Anzac Day match. If that can't spark or ignite Josh then he might be a lost cause. I actually think he was not that bad on the day. But when you are called out for dogging it well at least he has something to prove as he did against the bombers in our second match.

 

[dswan]

Time to give Shae a game!

 

[Bluey64]

Dawes's will be out the door if he misses out after last weeks VFL game he won't be wanting to watch dopey Fraser trying to get a kick, does this mean when Wood gets a game he will be given "time" to settle in and OH don't worry Cam if you kick a pie floater --come back next week!!!!and have another jog around the park --- Pathetic

 

[Brodeywa]

I'm still concerned about the development of our tall defenders and forwards. They need to play this year in the AFL - 1. To find out if they are up to the level and 2. Development, otherwise we are wasting our time. I dont think Dawes, N.Brown and Reid can develop much more in the VFL than they already have, i could be wrong but im thinking the next phase is to be getting use to the pace of the AFL not the VFL.

I dont know if we can overtake the top 2 sides (cats and saints) without deveolping another option up forward and i think thats the frustrating part of the fraser and L.Brown saga. We need to give someone else a chance, to see if it may well be better and improve us again to go from the good side to a great side. Geelong dont die wondering, why dont we...

 

[TradeDraft]

I'm still concerned about the development of our tall defenders and forwards. They need to play this year in the AFL - 1. To find out if they are up to the level and 2. Development, otherwise we are wasting our time. I dont think Dawes, N.Brown and Reid can develop much more in the VFL than they already have, i could be wrong but im thinking the next phase is to be getting use to the pace of the AFL not the VFL.

I dont know if we can overtake the top 2 sides (cats and saints) without deveolping another option up forward and i think thats the frustrating part of the fraser and L.Brown saga. We need to give someone else a chance, to see if it may well be better and improve us again to go from the good side to a great side. Geelong dont die wondering, why dont we...

Agree I think Those 3 can't get much better for AFL playing in the VFL, They need to play AFL or might as well Trade Them

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Dawes can ruck, and did better at it than Leigh Brown in his 2 brief rucking stints.

I don't agree that Fraser's down on form actually - when he's been in the ruck he's been okish as usual. It's just he's bloody hopeless as a forward, which has nothing to do with form, but more the fact that he's a slow timid 200cm player who can't mark overhead.

If Fraser were to ruck close to 50%, I think it'd be worthwhile keeping him in the team. Right now, he's rucking maybe 25-30%. It's just not enough to justify keeping him in the team over an actual forward.

Yes, agree on all counts.

 

[esc0bar]

I'm still concerned about the development of our tall defenders and forwards. They need to play this year in the AFL - 1. To find out if they are up to the level and 2. Development, otherwise we are wasting our time. I dont think Dawes, N.Brown and Reid can develop much more in the VFL than they already have, i could be wrong but im thinking the next phase is to be getting use to the pace of the AFL not the VFL.

I dont know if we can overtake the top 2 sides (cats and saints) without deveolping another option up forward and i think thats the frustrating part of the fraser and L.Brown saga. We need to give someone else a chance, to see if it may well be better and improve us again to go from the good side to a great side. Geelong dont die wondering, why dont we...

If you look around the afl a bunch of EX geelong VFL, now AFL made players are running around the park. Mumford, Prismal, and about 4 other i can't remember the name of are. They couldnt get games at their repsective clubs because of the depth and opted to be traded. This kind of supports your argument... However....

One reason that Geeling have the ability to test player is because they have a list of superstars that can win regardless if they try a few positions around the ground of under performing on the edge players.

We dont have the depth yet we rely on all player around the ground. We will die if we start to wonder.

 

[Brodeywa]

If you look around the afl a bunch of EX geelong VFL, now AFL made players are running around the park. Mumford, Prismal, and about 4 other i can't remember the name of are. They couldnt get games at their repsective clubs because of the depth and opted to be traded. This kind of supports your argument... However....

One reason that Geeling have the ability to test player is because they have a list of superstars that can win regardless if they try a few positions around the ground of under performing on the edge players.

We dont have the depth yet we rely on all player around the ground. We will die if we start to wonder.

Fair call, but you get the list that geelong have by developing it and playing your talent at AFL level. I'm interested to see what takes place over the year with the 3 i mentioned. Taking a longer view is when Presti, Fraser and L.Brown leave in a few years we are going to have to play them then, i'd like to see it now while we have the capacity/experience around them to do so...

 

[Mickaman]

I'm still concerned about the development of our tall defenders and forwards. They need to play this year in the AFL - 1. To find out if they are up to the level and 2. Development, otherwise we are wasting our time. I dont think Dawes, N.Brown and Reid can develop much more in the VFL than they already have, i could be wrong but im thinking the next phase is to be getting use to the pace of the AFL not the VFL.

I dont know if we can overtake the top 2 sides (cats and saints) without deveolping another option up forward and i think thats the frustrating part of the fraser and L.Brown saga. We need to give someone else a chance, to see if it may well be better and improve us again to go from the good side to a great side. Geelong dont die wondering, why dont we...

Great post. We are not going to elevate ourselves to the next level with our older players that are treading water. We need to see what these younger players can do in the AFL. They might not be up to it but we need to find out, if not we are only running on the spot.

 

[Bluey64]

Great post. We are not going to elevate ourselves to the next level with our older players that are treading water. We need to see what these younger players can do in the AFL. They might not be up to it but we need to find out, if not we are only running on the spot.

Exactly what Adelaide are paying for now with perservering with their "older" players they are treading water and will flounder before the year is out while they persist in playing them and holding back the younger ones ie: Taylor Walker

 

[Optimax]

Exactly what Adelaide are paying for now with perservering with their "older" players they are treading water and will flounder before the year is out while they persist in playing them and holding back the younger ones ie: Taylor Walker

We are markedly younger side then that of Adelaide

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Sounds like Fraser gets another reprieve from MM for his pathetic start to the year and rewarded with an Anzac game -- those busting their G--ts to break into the side must be wondering what they have to do - when it appears he could probably float thru the year and not get another touch and still be named!!! MM TAKE OFF YOUR ROSE COLOURED GLASSES

The real question here is when did guts become a swear word? So confused....

Leroy should go before Fraser. At least Fraser can kick and occasionally plays a good game. Also, at least he has some talent and a little upside in his new role.

Leigh Brown is in the team because he has the ability to play a number of positions really badly and growls occasionally. Although it's an impressive growl it's not gonna get you far unless you're a lion. He'd be a star around zebras, worthless around footballers unless you ask him to eat somebody.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Exactly what Adelaide are paying for now with perservering with their "older" players they are treading water and will flounder before the year is out while they persist in playing them and holding back the younger ones ie: Taylor Walker

Terrible post.
O'Brien, Pendlebury, Thomas, Beams, Wellingham, Sidebottom, Brent Macaffer, Wood, Dick (when fit), Toovey, Cloke are all in the side at the moment or would be best 22 if they were fit. Add to that; Reid, Dawes, Brown, McCarthy, Blight, Buckley, Blair, etc who all either have or are a realistic chance of playing games this year.

They are all very young to young players. Our problem is not about a refusal to pick youngsters, it is about a refusal to drop players who are out of form.

If we "blooded" the youngsters so we don't "flounder" as you suggest we'd be Richmond. We are not even a risk of turning into Adelaide. FWIW, their older players they're persisting with are better players than ours. I love Tarkyn, loved O'Bree but they are hardly in the McLeod, Goodwin or Edwards class. Adelaide's problem is that they haven't developed youngsters around them until a year or two ago - we've developed heaps. We have developed players capable of taking the spot of a senior player, i.e. Wood for Fraser, Reid for Brown, Macaffer for Lockyer, Beams for O'Bree, etc and MM needs to be more wiling to turn the "perceived pressure" of strength in depth into real pressure.

 

[didaka]

Yeah and wood and blight are your favourites

Every one from coaches to fans have them

P.S I only did the second thumb because I thought I needed more characters to post, but after reviewing I don't.

Luckily for you I am lazy and can't be bothered removing the second thumb so it still looks like 2 thumbs up.

I understand typing these couple of sentences is more effort than deleting the thumbs up, so I'm going to stop now.

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

LOL from the AFL website:-

Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Fremantle and Richmond will name their final sides (22 plus three emergencies) from 5pm AEST on Friday.

Carlton and the Geelong Cats will name theirs from 4pm AEST on Saturday.

24 more hours of speculation, innuendo, untruths, bias and vitriol

 

[sr36]

Last year MM was a joke, who was playing favourites because he only selected one ruckman and used Brown to pinch hit in the ruck. This year he is joke, who is playing favourites, because he is playing favourites because he is selecting two ruckman and not playing Brown in the ruck.

fraser is disappointing because early on most of us believed he would become a star. but at the end of the day he is a serviceable second ruck.