Autopsy Frees in Port and other games

[mic59]

We are seeing here one thing that bad umpiring does to the game, particularly to its supporters. We played like s*** on the weekend but with even a half fair run from the umpires we would have won by 3 goals. After losing to the bottom team we and the players should be focused on how badly they did, instead it is the umpires. I am sure the Carlton supporters, the few that were there, would have enjoyed the run they were allowed to generate with a minimum of interference from the rules of the game, but as a spectacle it had one team that was allowed to play and one that was continually hamstrung in its efforts. There have been plenty of posters from other teams who have come onto this board and agreed that we were shafted.
The final insult came when Eddie described the coming win as one for "this iconic club", as if we were unimportant. Sure, Eddie, we've done nothing, just were invited in after all the flags we won.

 

[JohnHinckleyJr]

We are seeing here one thing that bad umpiring does to the game, particularly to its supporters. We played like s*** on the weekend but with even a half fair run from the umpires we would have won by 3 goals. After losing to the bottom team we and the players should be focused on how badly they did, instead it is the umpires. I am su
re the Carlton supporters, the few that were there, would have enjoyed the run they were allowed to generate with a minimum of interference from the rules of the game, but as a spectacle it had one team that was allowed to play and one that was continually hamstrung in its efforts. There have been plenty of posters from other teams who have come onto this board and agreed that we were shafted.
The final insult came when Eddie described the coming win as one for "this iconic club", as if we were unimportant. Sure, Eddie, we've done nothing, just were invited in after all the flags we won.

lol nonsense we were robbed everytime we had achance we were robbed you cant win when your cheated out of tge game

 

[El_Scorcho]

I didn't actually see the game because I was working, but the tipping point for me on whether the umpires cost us the game or not is the neutrals.

We've had heaps of them on here since the game telling us how badly we were screwed, and Facebook was full of bemused West Coast, Richmond and Brisbane fans posting about the screwjob.

That doesn't happen unless it's an exceptional level of bad umpiring.

 

[mic59]

lol nonsense we were robbed everytime we had achance we were robbed you cant win when your cheated out of tge game

Not sure what you mean, that is exactly what I was saying.

 

[Zakk Wylde]

I'm gonna say it, the majority of those are things that occur in every game that every supporter gets upset at. There were a couple of dodgy ones (Hartletts spoil, Wingard chopping arms, double free kick to Armfield) but that would be it.

Yep, in isolation you are correct.

But all those errors, collectively, in one game, against the same team..... Ba Bow.

The fix was in.

 

[Schulzenfest]

And it's simplistic to say that 'Carlton were the better team' as if that's the end of the discussion. They were the better team in the second and third quarters (although even that didn't come with umpire assistance), but we dominated them in Q4. Dominated them. If we'd been given a fair run of the umpiring in that quarter, we win the game.

 

[Wargreymon90]

This is the first game where I have been legit angry after a result. Every other game has been because we were awful or we were easily beaten. No one to blame but ourselves

 

[scotty13]

Im still furious... The AFL needs to publicly come out and sack these umpires for a month. They clearly through just 3 of their dodgy cheating decisions cost us 4 points, which if we miss the 8 by that game, or top 4 by that game the club should sue the AFL for incompetence in a professional field.
Incompetence from these umpires could result in massive life altering changes at PAFC with players being dropped and delisted, coaches being sacked at seasons end, members not renewing putting the club in financial trouble and what... these guys walk off with a smile on their face, collect their brown paper bag from VISY and go about life as if nothing is wrong?

 

[StrappingTape]

The ones that haven't been highlighted as poor decisions or uneven, trengove going back to take a mark and gets spoiled from front on, spillage results in a carlton goal.. front on interference disappeared there but then when hartlett cleanly spoils front on it was front on interference.. and last quarter where Boak was in the square and the ball was coming in the carlton guy stopped watching the ball runs back wraps up boak he gets one arm free but no free kick for interference in the contest.

Compare the last 5 minutes of umpiring we scored against Carlton to the Crows last quarter (using their game as it was eerily similar to how ours went play wise) against them. Umpiring can make a difference when it's going in your favour in a game like this, in their game they kept calling frees in our they shut up shop.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Yep, in isolation you are correct.

But all those errors, collectively, in one game, against the same team..... Ba Bow.

The fix was in.

I tend to agree. In every game you have some bullshit decisions both ways, the home crowd boos, but it evens up over the course of a game.

When Carlton get what, 7 free kicks to 0 in the last quarter, on top of the touched mark and other incidents, when you lose by 4 points there can really only be one conclusion.

As i've repeatedly said, there have only been 3 games prior to this one where in my mind, umpires have been responsible for a Port Adelaide loss at AFL level. Bulldogs 2007, Essendon 2011 and 38-15. I haven't seen the game apart from highlights, but this one looks like it gets added to that list.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

Yep, in isolation you are correct.

But all those errors, collectively, in one game, against the same team..... Ba Bow.

The fix was in.

and also with the statment that theiy aim for 8.5 errors per game, and they counted 12 in ours. 12 is crazy low anyway, but regardless of that, they wouldnt normally expect them all to be disadvantaging the one team.

I keep expecting to log in and see that someone, somewhere has lodged a complaint, or somewhere in the media a storm is brewing. but nothing. Its a disgrace and a reminder that its a bullshit competition. Not only is the draw ridiculous and uneven, you also get this crap too. its a constant uphill battle.

yeah we played poor, but on even umpiring we still would have won by 5-6 goals. especially when you consider that there are at least 3 that had direct imact on scoring. Westhoff....the play on call returned, and the touched call. then of course there was the umire marking the ball which resulted in a goal for them. that one we had a chance to defend, but it was still umpire error that sent the ball in that direction.

 

[LeoMessi]

I tend to agree. In every game you have some bullshit decisions both ways, the home crowd boos, but it evens up over the course of a game.

When Carlton get what, 7 free kicks to 0 in the last quarter, on top of the touched mark and other incidents, when you lose by 4 points there can really only be one conclusion.

As i've repeatedly said, there have only been 3 games prior to this one where in my mind, umpires have been responsible for a Port Adelaide loss at AFL level. Bulldogs 2007, Essendon 2011 and 38-15. I haven't seen the game apart from highlights, but this one looks like it gets added to that list.

You are forgetting the famous one against North in Tassie in 2013 I think. It was something like 38-14

 

[El_Scorcho]

You are forgetting the famous one against North in Tassie in 2013 I think. It was something like 38-14

That's 38-15, mentioned after the Essendon game

That game is infamous enough that simply referring to it by it's free kick count should be enough. That was the worst umpiring i've personally ever seen. A 4 quarter onslaught of one set of rules for us, and another set of rules for North.

 

[LeoMessi]

That's 38-15, mentioned after the Essendon game

That game is infamous enough that simply referring to it by it's free kick count should be enough. That was the worst umpiring i've personally ever seen. A 4 quarter onslaught of one set of rules for us, and another set of rules for North.

 

[tribey]

I tend to agree. In every game you have some bullshit decisions both ways, the home crowd boos, but it evens up over the course of a game.

When Carlton get what, 7 free kicks to 0 in the last quarter, on top of the touched mark and other incidents, when you lose by 4 points there can really only be one conclusion.

As i've repeatedly said, there have only been 3 games prior to this one where in my mind, umpires have been responsible for a Port Adelaide loss at AFL level. Bulldogs 2007, Essendon 2011 and 38-15. I haven't seen the game apart from highlights, but this one looks like it gets added to that list.

And in isolation, 9-1. The Corey-Carlile decision with the game on a knifeedge.

But no, we were 4 goals up at halftime that night so it's our own fault derp.

 

[Adz2332]

and also with the statment that theiy aim for 8.5 errors per game, and they counted 12 in ours. 12 is crazy low anyway, but regardless of that, they wouldnt normally expect them all to be disadvantaging the one team.

I keep expecting to log in and see that someone, somewhere has lodged a complaint, or somewhere in the media a storm is brewing. but nothing. Its a disgrace and a reminder that its a bullshit competition. Not only is the draw ridiculous and uneven, you also get this crap too. its a constant uphill battle.

yeah we played poor, but on even umpiring we still would have won by 5-6 goals. especially when you consider that there are at least 3 that had direct imact on scoring. Westhoff....the play on call returned, and the touched call. then of course there was the umire marking the ball which resulted in a goal for them. that one we had a chance to defend, but it was still umpire error that sent the ball in that direction.

Yer they accept 8.5 errors a game..... but making 4.25 errors each team.... i dare say the 12 (which in itself is a joke) is more like 11 errors to 1 with us being on the wrong end of it

 

[malph]

Saying umpires are a protected species is ridiculously unfair. Go to any football match, supporters will say some of the worst things about umpires that I have ever heard in my life. The language and abuse to often foul. Even on this thread you can read back and see some of the vile things said. Yet, have you ever seen a moderator on this site warn someone or ban someone for abusing another human being in that matter? Have you ever seen a a security guard evict someone for it? Turn the umpire into Adam Goodes however, and the world makes it into WW3.

I've only really felt the urge to lurk on this site this season, but I really wanted to quote this post. I used to umpire district basketball at a fairly senior level some years ago, and to ref any sport you need a much thicker skin than any player out there. I reckon I've posted something like this before, but to see a 12 or 13 year old girl just learning the craft have her looks, weight, even sexuality questioned during something as comparatively meaningless as an U16 div 5 match by parents who don't happen to like her standard of officiating, it's no wonder it's so hard to find great umpires at the top levels of any sport. That girl didn't last long, and there are always many more with similar stories. That sort of behaviour is ingrained at most every level of sport. It's cultural, it's accepted, and it's a disgrace.

Banning public complaints on umpires and umpiring in the AFL is a brilliant idea. Just brilliant. To try and create cultural change in this area, even if from the top-down, is absolutely worth it. There are other ways that the clubs can make their thoughts known. Better, more constructive ways. And as for the fans, just bitching and moaning that they "need to be accountable" is not helping. They are accountable, but to drop every umpire who has a bad day would probably lead to bedlam. butchyboy101 would know more than me, but I suspect that there just aren't enough quality umpires to make that feasible. I stand to be corrected on that, but there's a proverb that says something like: "when the Gods wish to punish us, they grant us our wishes." I would hate to see how people react when too many umpires who aren't ready or qualified are thrust forward in a quest to make current AFL umpires "more accountable."

In my experience, the vast majority of umpires, and I mean VAST majority, do not want to be noticed. And here's the thing that most people don't understand or accept, but umpires have bad days, and they usually know that they having a bad day. They might drop concentration for a couple of seconds and miss a crucial free. Blow the whistle too early when they've assumed something is going to happen, but doesn't. I can tell you, that "Oh shit" moment is one of the worst feelings in the world, but sometimes you have to go along with it and bluff like you've done nothing wrong, because if you lose control of the game, that's it. You can bee seen as biased, unfair, whatever. But if you as the umpire are not in control of the game, you've failed rule number one. It's not fun, but umpires are human. They see unbalanced foul or free kick counts, and yes, sometimes they even-up. I did it from time to time so that neither team could accuse me of bias. I have decided in the heat of the moment that it was better to have both teams hate me than think I was favouring someone. That's not necessarily good umpiring, either, but the funny things is, people would expect it, and wait for it to happen, and they were more fine with that than the alternative. Sometimes, you get the umpiring that you ask for.

We were absolutely, categorically reamed by the umpires on Saturday. They put the whistle away in a close one, and sometimes we prefer that. But they happened to put the whistle away during a quarter we dominated, and we were unfairly treated as a result. However, to say that there was a fix, that umpires were paid or that there was a conspiracy, well, that's horseshit. Nicholls may hate us, he has form. But I don't believe, for even a fraction of a second, that there is even a remote possibility that three AFL umpires were actively conspiring to see us lose.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

The club asking the league about umpiring decisions won't do anything.

The standard response will always be 'we were wrong'. Doesn't change the outcome, doesn't change future outcomes, pointless thing to do really.

 

[Chrizzt]

We were absolutely, categorically reamed by the umpires on Saturday. They put the whistle away in a close one, and sometimes we prefer that. But they happened to put the whistle away during a quarter we dominated, and we were unfairly treated as a result. However, to say that there was a fix, that umpires were paid or that there was a conspiracy, well, that's horseshit. Nicholls may hate us, he has form. But I don't believe, for even a fraction of a second, that there is even a remote possibility that three AFL umpires were actively conspiring to see us lose.

I agree that it's ridiculous to say that Carlton paid the umpires, or even that there was a specific directive to make us lose, but given how the AFL schemes so much to prop up the supposed "Big 4 Vic" clubs I can certainly see the umpires to be advised to cut Carlton some slack at their home game at the MCG when things are looking absolutely up the proverbial creek for them. This combined with badly inept umpiring, and a possible bias from Nicholls against us all culminated in an umpiring display that comes off looking like outright cheating.

 

[tribey]

I agree that it's ridiculous to say that Carlton paid the umpires, or even that there was a specific directive to make us lose, but given how the AFL schemes so much to prop up the supposed "Big 4 Vic" clubs I can certainly see the umpires to be advised to cut Carlton some slack at their home game at the MCG when things are looking absolutely up the proverbial creek for them. This combined with badly inept umpiring, and a possible bias from Nicholls against us all culminated in an umpiring display that comes off looking like outright cheating.

A friend of mine put forth a theory that the mindset began with giving the underdog the benefit of the doubt, before subconsciously turning into a home-crowd fairytale avalanche.

 

[malph]

I agree that it's ridiculous to say that Carlton paid the umpires, or even that there was a specific directive to make us lose, but given how the AFL schemes so much to prop up the supposed "Big 4 Vic" clubs I can certainly see the umpires to be advised to cut Carlton some slack at their home game at the MCG when things are looking absolutely up the proverbial creek for them. This combined with badly inept umpiring, and a possible bias from Nicholls against us all culminated in an umpiring display that comes off looking like outright cheating.

"Comes off looking," not "is." I have suspicions about Nicholls, though it might just be confirmation bias from a few noticeably bad performances. Nobody has exactly analysed his performances empirically. It was an incompetent display on Saturday, and the umpires may have let emotion get the better of them. They are passionate about the game, that's why they do it. It's no excuse for performing badly, but it's not quite match-fixing, either.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Yep, in isolation you are correct.

But all those errors, collectively, in one game, against the same team..... Ba Bow.

The fix was in.

exactly

 

[OneGreatClub]

Im still furious... The AFL needs to publicly come out and sack these umpires for a month. They clearly through just 3 of their dodgy cheating decisions cost us 4 points, which if we miss the 8 by that game, or top 4 by that game the club should sue the AFL for incompetence in a professional field.
Incompetence from these umpires could result in massive life altering changes at PAFC with players being dropped and delisted, coaches being sacked at seasons end, members not renewing putting the club in financial trouble and what... these guys walk off with a smile on their face, collect their brown paper bag from VISY and go about life as if nothing is wrong?

I also am furious, as should the club be if they have any guts at all.

 

[Smithy7]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...#8217; hard tackle on Gray&itmt=1434949917218
Rucci did not take too long to do a story about the umpires lol
But of all the controversial issues — such as Port Adelaide midfielder Sam Colquhoun being denied a mark in the last term and Carlton swingman Lachie Henderson being handed a mark on a bounced ball in the same quarter — Kennedy is listing only one call as a howler.
It even includes YouTube posted in thread by PortWTF, sorry if that wrong name
More ........
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...#8217; hard tackle on Gray&itmt=1434949917218

 

[Malibu#27]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-umpiring-coach-hayden-kennedy-counts-too-many-errors-in-port-adelaide-carlton-game/story-fnia6ojc-1227408818706#itm=newscomau|sport|ncam-story-body-link|4|http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-umpiring-coach-hayden-kennedy-counts-too-many-errors-in-port-adelaide-carlton-game/story-fnia6ojc-1227408818706|story|Wingard backs Gibbs’ hard tackle on Gray&itmt=1434949917218
Rucci did not take too long to do a story about the umpires lol
But of all the controversial issues — such as Port Adelaide midfielder Sam Colquhoun being denied a mark in the last term and Carlton swingman Lachie Henderson being handed a mark on a bounced ball in the same quarter — Kennedy is listing only one call as a howler.
It even includes YouTube posted in thread by PortWTF, sorry if that wrong name
More ........
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-umpiring-coach-hayden-kennedy-counts-too-many-errors-in-port-adelaide-carlton-game/story-fnia6ojc-1227408818706#itm=newscomau|sport|ncam-story-body-link|4|http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/afl-umpiring-coach-hayden-kennedy-counts-too-many-errors-in-port-adelaide-carlton-game/story-fnia6ojc-1227408818706|story|Wingard backs Gibbs’ hard tackle on Gray&itmt=1434949917218

But in typical Rucci style hes also seemed to be having a crack at Port fans blaming umpires in his rip