Freo's trading and drafting

[Forward Press]

Funny, I thought it was a thread about Freo's trading and drafting. That would ordinarily mean a discussion of the positives as well as the negatives. Instead it's been allowed to degenerate into a general free for all Freo bashing contest.

I shouldn't have to report blatant trolling. A moderator worth his salt would tidy that crap up before threads turn into shit fights. I see Freo posters are starting to fall, while the West Coast trolls who goad them into stepping out of line carry on. Why am I not surprised?

There is absolutely zero benefit in me trying to have this addressed. You're having fun with it anyway, so knock yourself out.

1 - Thread don't have to be a 50:50 positive/negative split.
2 - Name the Freo posters that are falling. I'm happy to discuss with you moderation practice in this thread, for accountability purposes.
3 - If you think me or the other mods have time to read the 100s of new posts on this board every day, then you're mistaken.
4- If there is 'absolutely zero benefit', then why bring it up?

Thread was started by a Freo poster, by the way.

 

[estibador]

Lol, where are the Bond murmurs coming from?

Same place everything else he writes comes from - his fertile imagination.

 

[Moo]

1 - Thread don't have to be a 50:50 positive/negative split.
2 - Name the Freo posters that are falling. I'm happy to discuss with you moderation practice in this thread, for accountability purposes.
3 - If you think me or the other mods have time to read the 100s of new posts on this board every day, then you're mistaken.
4- If there is 'absolutely zero benefit', then why bring it up?

Thread was started by a Freo poster, by the way.

FP - take it off line ....this is Mr Commissioner's comedy hour.

Plus I thought the thread was started by Silent Alarm?

 

[Mr Commissioner]

Heard it from a colleague at Richmond who are sounding him out for a role at Tigerland.

 

[Forward Press]

FP - take it off line ....this is Mr Commissioner's comedy hour.

I was inclined to close this yesterday when it became an Eagles discussion, but for obvious reasons we'd rather leave threads open and ongoing on BF unless there is a compelling reason not to. Feel free to tear apart Mr Commissioner's posts - within the rules.

 

[Moo]

Heard it from a colleague at Richmond who are sounding him out for a role at Tigerland.

So not pushed out but being chased by another club?

Got it.

 

[Mr Commissioner]

So not pushed out but being chased by another club?

Got it.

I don't think he'll be there this time next year, one way or another....

 

[Moo]

I don't think he'll be there this time next year, one way or another....

...but not by being pushed out which is what you posted.

You really need to get your other personality proof reading your posts Comms, getting a bit embarrassing now.

 

[Mr Commissioner]

...but not by being pushed out which is what you posted.

You really need to get your other personality proof reading your posts Comms, getting a bit embarrassing now.

I feel terrible.

 

[Sully90]

What I can't fathom is the complete and utter contempt key position players seem to held in.

There two best ever key position players were both first round picks, they have both been fantastic players - why the delay in replacing them and the lack of creativity to position the club to the point where they can invest in quality young key position players at the draft in the early rounds?

It astounds me that this hasn't been addressed in the last 3 seasons - it shows a complete lack of foresight, list management and vision.

There are murmurs Bond is being slowly pushed out, perhaps it will take more time but I have noticed Sumich has been given a new role.

I'm not sure of your definition of contempt, but since 2012 Fremantle have drafted/rookie listed/traded in Alex Howson, Craig Moeller, Mathew Taberner, Jack Hannath, Tanner Smith, Thomas Vandeleur, Alex Pearce, Zac Dawson, Michael Apeness, Sean Hurley, Scott Gumbleton, Samuel Collins, and Mathew Uebergang all as KPFs, KPDs or ruckmen.

Furthermore they have made strong, well documented pushes to try and trade in Cameron Mccarthy, Lance Franklin, Travis Cloke, Harry Taylor, and Aaron Black.

The list gets comprehensively longer if I look further back into the Harvey era.

So through a mixture of trade, rookie selections, mid round draft picks, and speculative later pick, I would argue that they've been looking at trying to replace Pavlich, McPharlin and Sandilands every year that Ross Lyon has joined. For one reason or another it hasn't worked out. I'm not going to blame our development practices as alot of other players in different positions have come along nicely in that time. I will blame a lack of talent identification (although admitedly, precious few key position players have been found around those draft positions in the same timeframe), and the apparent lack of being able to sell ourselves as a decent trade destination.

 

[Moo]

I feel terrible.

 

[Mr Commissioner]

I'm not sure of your definition of contempt, but since 2012 Fremantle have drafted/rookie listed/traded in Alex Howson, Craig Moeller, Mathew Taberner, Jack Hannath, Tanner Smith, Thomas Vandeleur, Alex Pearce, Zac Dawson, Michael Apeness, Sean Hurley, Scott Gumbleton, Samuel Collins, and Mathew Uebergang all as KPFs, KPDs or ruck men.
.

Howson - Rookie List
Moeller - NSW Rookie list
Taberner - Rookie List
Hannath - Rookie List
Smith - 3rd round pick or second, now rookie.
Vandeleur was a flanker for South Fremantle, not KP at all.
Alex Pearce - only prospect at the club for mine - good pick.
Dawson - Body spoiler who cannot kick, free so probably breaking even here.
Apeness - Only first round pick in a key position for some years - also coming off a ACL. Wish him all the best. Don't see it.
Hurly - no idea who that is.
Gumbleton - never got going because of injury - enjoyed the meal ticket before retiring.
Collins - Rookie
Ubergang - Rookie.

It doesn't scream KP priority and it is a glaring issue in the home stretches. No targets to kick to. No presence forward of the ball which leads to static, slow ball movement into the forward 50.

 

[ronpingwins]

Who would you have picked up Mr Commissioner

 

[estibador]

I blame Ross Lyon. His complete and utter contempt for losing has cost us valuable draft picks like the #4 we used on Pav and the #1 we used in the McPharlin trade.

I pine for the good old days when I was able to joyously watch us lose every week knowing we would win the real prize - being able to brag about winning the draft on bigfooty with top 5 KPP picks.

 

[Mr Commissioner]

Who would you have picked up Mr Commissioner

Heaven and Earth for Hogan - Heaven and Earth.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

1 - Thread don't have to be a 50:50 positive/negative split.
2 - Name the Freo posters that are falling. I'm happy to discuss with you moderation practice in this thread, for accountability purposes.
3 - If you think me or the other mods have time to read the 100s of new posts on this board every day, then you're mistaken.
4- If there is 'absolutely zero benefit', then why bring it up?

Thread was started by a Freo poster, by the way.

1 - I didn't say it did.
2 - He might deserve it for some of his views on the Freo board, but I doubt sproketman gave himself a red uppercut. If it wasn't served up by you, I stand corrected, but it is consistent with your modus operandi.
3 - You've used that excuse before. You'd think it would be hard to miss considering it occurs when you're posting in the thread and some of the posts are yours. What precisely is referring to Stephen Hill as Naitanui-lite if not bait?
4 - OK then, there is some benefit. It makes me feel better to get it off my chest publicly precisely because doing anything else has proved pointless in the past.

Your assessment of what constitutes a Freo poster is questionable. Let us decide that.

 

[ep2018]

Better make sure they don't do their usual yo-yo trick before you get too excited.

They're probably due for one of their bottom 4 finishes next year.

Yes the 2013 season where we fell on our faces is still on my mind. But I think we're well placed to at least make the finals again next season.

 

[Sully90]

Howson - Rookie List
Moeller - NSW Rookie list
Taberner - Rookie List
Hannath - Rookie List
Smith - 3rd round pick or second, now rookie.
Vandeleur was a flanker for South Fremantle, not KP at all.
Alex Pearce - only prospect at the club for mine - good pick.
Dawson - Body spoiler who cannot kick, free so probably breaking even here.
Apeness - Only first round pick in a key position for some years - also coming off a ACL. Wish him all the best. Don't see it.
Hurly - no idea who that is.
Gumbleton - never got going because of injury - enjoyed the meal ticket before retiring.
Collins - Rookie
Ubergang - Rookie.

It doesn't scream KP priority and it is a glaring issue in the home stretches. No targets to kick to. No presence forward of the ball which leads to static, slow ball movement into the forward 50.

See now you're doing that thing again where you can't look at a situation from both sides of the fence. You're initial position was that Fremantle do not value the Key position players enough based on your preconceived notion that we haven't done enough to develop any. Pay attention now to our situation now in each draft year:

2012:

First pick: Josh Simpson
Second pick: Tanner Smith

Between these two players, there was no successful key position player selected. I repeat, from the 2012 draft, the most successful key position player selected from between our first pick to our second pick, is the player that we selected with our second pick. I defy you to find a better key position solution available to us from this draft. We followed this up by only selecting key position players with our three rookie selections. From these three selections, one has shown potential (Taberner).

2013:

First pick: Michael Apeness
Second pick: Alex Pearce

Fremantle went into this draft targeting Mccarthy who went to GWS three picks before their first selection. They used their first two picks on the best Kep position players available. The only other successful key position picks from this draft are Ben Brown and Daniel McStay. Talent identification could have been better here, but that is really too hard to tell two full seasons after this draft. Still the clear intention towards key position players was obvious here. We also traded in Gumbleton, who despite never overcoming his injuries, had a substantial amount of time and effort put into him to get him onto the field which he very nearly did. You may write him off as a meal ticket (how by the way, do you know the guy?) but once again, the intent was their by the club to address the key forward deficiency, this time through a trade.

2014:

First pick: Lachie Weller
Second pick: Connor Blakely
Third pick: Ed Langdon.

Ok I'll give you this one, maybe Dockers could have gone for Durdin (yet to play a game) and definitely should have gone for Lever. After these early selections though, there are no further key position players selected in the draft. Aside from that, Apeness and Taberner were coming off very promising second halves of 2014, with Apeness yet to do his ACL. They were showing every sign of continuing on into their second years. We also brought in Sean Hurley. I know you have no idea who he is, but a quick google search will tell you that he is an international selection, who spent his first year on an AFL list by developing nicely as a centre-half back for their WAFL affiliate.

So there is our drafting history from since Lyon taking over as coach. While you may think that this plus all of our trade and free agency attempts isn't enough I would be welcome to hearing your suggestions as to how we could have gone about it differently. Please don't just answer with "Hogan" as he has yet to come out of contract since being drafted, and would also cost us Fyfe.

 

[Mr Commissioner]

Apeness tore his ACL prior to being drafted..

And you're completely missing the point - moving heaven and Earth to land Hogan in the mini draft was the best possible route but rather than showing some foresight Fremantle shunned the opportunity to move on players for a mini draft pick.

 

[Sully90]

Apeness tore his ACL prior to being drafted..

And you're completely missing the point - moving heaven and Earth to land Hogan in the mini draft was the best possible route but rather than showing some foresight Fremantle shunned the opportunity to move on players for a mini draft pick.

He tore his ACL as a 16 year old, playing a different sport. His ACL had been untorn for a full 18months prior to being drafted. It still doesn't take away from the fact that Fremantle key position player when there were better, safer midfield options around that pick. This is the original point that your argued against.

With regards to Hogan, the mini pick cost Melbourne draft picks 3 and 14. Fremantle held draft pick 17. Which players on Fremantle's list do you think would have demanded a top 10 draft pick in a trade? Please keep in mind we had not yet recruited Neale, Sheridan, Crozier, Weller, Blakely, Langdon, Balic, and Tucker by this stage.

How else should Fremantle have gone about securing key position players? Is your only answer Hogan? Would you have based your whole forward line strategy around one 18 year old? You seem very keen to take pot shots at Fremantle's recruiting strategy but have so far offered no viable improvement to what I have listed in my previous posts.

 

[Mr Commissioner]

He tore his ACL as a 16 year old, playing a different sport. His ACL had been untorn for a full 18months prior to being drafted. It still doesn't take away from the fact that Fremantle key position player when there were better, safer midfield options around that pick. This is the original point that your argued against.

With regards to Hogan, the mini pick cost Melbourne draft picks 3 and 14. Fremantle held draft pick 17. Which players on Fremantle's list do you think would have demanded a top 10 draft pick in a trade? Please keep in mind we had not yet recruited Neale, Sheridan, Crozier, Weller, Blakely, Langdon, Balic, and Tucker by this stage.

How else should Fremantle have gone about securing key position players? Is your only answer Hogan? Would you have based your whole forward line strategy around one 18 year old? You seem very keen to take pot shots at Fremantle's recruiting strategy but have so far offered no viable improvement to what I have listed in my previous posts.

Anyone worth their salt in the recruiting space knew Hogan was a generational talent - he will be this centurys Carey - an utter freak - he was right under the nose of Fremantle, FFS he trained with Fremantle for 2 weeks as an AIS academy member.

You can't get anywhere sitting on the fence "hoping" talent will come your way.

Fremantle baulked at the idea of offloaded ready made players - Barlow was in the discussion, nice story, ok player but you'd hold onto him rather than snare a key position prodigy - conservatism that has back fired to the point where Matt Taberner is now the number one KP option.

You seem to get lost in this "a player wasn't there by the time our pick came up " mentality and it's echoed by your football department.

If you want to move up the order you need to be willing to get creative, if a player fits your needs to position yourself accordingly.

How - find other clubs with a requirement, package picks/players to ensure you move up the line, why Fremantle saw fit to snaffle 5 ruck men is anyones guess, and then not use them as bargaining chips - stupidity in the most extreme terms.

 

[Sully90]

Anyone worth their salt in the recruiting space knew Hogan was a generational talent - he will be this centurys Carey - an utter freak - he was right under the nose of Fremantle, FFS he trained with Fremantle for 2 weeks as an AIS academy member.

You can't get anywhere sitting on the fence "hoping" talent will come your way.

Fremantle baulked at the idea of offloaded ready made players - Barlow was in the discussion, nice story, ok player but you'd hold onto him rather than snare a key position prodigy - conservatism that has back fired to the point where Matt Taberner is now the number one KP option.

You seem to get lost in this "a player wasn't there by the time our pick came up " mentality and it's echoed by your football department.

If you want to move up the order you need to be willing to get creative, if a player fits your needs to position yourself accordingly.

How - find other clubs with a requirement, package picks/players to ensure you move up the line, why Fremantle saw fit to snaffle 5 ruck men is anyones guess, and then not use them as bargaining chips - stupidity in the most extreme terms.

Of course you do your best to move up the order where it's justified, which is what we did. In 2012 we traded pick 58 and Broughton for pick 36 (used on Tanner Smith), we also traded to a better position for the 2015 draft. Aside from these, I'm not sure of where this could be achieved aside from moving up two spots to get Mccarthy at 14. Fremantle clearly thought he would be available at 17 anyway (an error in judgement, not intent). Perhaps you could enlighten me as you are so confident of this scenario? To get decent key position prospects from from 2012-2015 would have required us to move into the top 10 for either draft. Of the four surplus ruckmen we have held, which one of Hannath, Clarke, Moeller, and Griffin could have been worth such a trade.

You're quite right regarding the potential of Hogan, which is why Melbourne sold the farm for him. Are you suggesting we should have traded with Melbourne for their pick 3? Do you think Barlow and pick 17 would have been accepted by them knowing full well that they had their eyes on Hogan? There were other young decent players on our list at the time admittedly in Hill and Fyfe. Fyfe for obvious reasons is off the table as he is a once in a generation talent all on his own. Maybe we could have packaged Hill, Barlow, and pick 17 for Pick 3 or something similar, but then we are going into a year where we fully intend to challenge for a Premiership with Mundy and Fyfe as our only A or B grade midfielders kicking to a veteran and a first year player.

I'm sorry but the simple fact of the matter is we have not had the same opportunity as other clubs over the past few seasons to draft or trade in quality key position prospects, but have shown with the options available to us, our focus has been mainly on acquiring key position players, and developing them to the best of our ability.

 

[2006_Eagles]

There aren't enough popcorn gifs in the world for this thread

 

[JamFrank]

who says you even need a forward line?

 

[Defacto]

Better make sure they don't do their usual yo-yo trick before you get too excited.

They're probably due for one of their bottom 4 finishes next year.

But freo are amped for another shot at the flag.... riggghhhttt.... literally cannot make this shit up