Freo's trading and drafting

[Mr Commissioner]

Re-watched the Hawks vs Dockers Prelim - not wanting to be a slanted football observer, but a couple of things were apparent.

Taberner had some really poor moments in the first quarter - dropped a sitter, failed to move off his line and allowed a Hawks player to intercept mark right on Freo's forward 50 and then a handball straight to Birchall.

His teammates see all of these things.

After a very strong start with fast ball movement, you can see Taberner actively being avoided by his teammates despite working to good spots on the ground.

Taberner aside Mayne had a howler - with Freo up by 2 goals 10 minutes into the first he has an uncontested mark 20 metres out directly in front and misses badly.

What is also evident is a lack of willingness by Fremantle players to pull the trigger on fast ball movement after the first 10 minutes.

Players are out leading to space on each wing and forward of the ball and rather than hit these targets with an element of risk, the players seem to go into their shell and look for targets square and behind the ball, the safe option.

Now, that's either a coaching directive, a skill based issue or a fitness problem.

Personally - looks like a combination of all three and that lies squarely at the feet of the players and coach.

The ball movement slows down and Fremantle look dreadful - they lose confidence in their targets forward of the ball and when they can't "get out the back" over the top of a defence, there's really no other strategy.

Once a side bolsters the back half and does not allow the easy one over the back Fremantle don't look like scoring - again - that's a coaching issue.

 

[Defacto]

Re-watched the Hawks vs Dockers Prelim - not wanting to be a slanted football observer, but a couple of things were apparent.

Taberner had some really poor moments in the first quarter - dropped a sitter, failed to move off his line and allowed a Hawks player to intercept mark right on Freo's forward 50 and then a handball straight to Birchall.

His teammates see all of these things.

After a very strong start with fast ball movement, you can see Taberner actively being avoided by his teammates despite working to good spots on the ground.

Taberner aside Mayne had a howler - with Freo up by 2 goals 10 minutes into the first he has an uncontested mark 20 metres out directly in front and misses badly.

What is also evident is a lack of willingness by Fremantle players to pull the trigger on fast ball movement after the first 10 minutes.

Players are out leading to space on each wing and forward of the ball and rather than hit these targets with an element of risk, the players seem to go into their shell and look for targets square and behind the ball, the safe option.

Now, that's either a coaching directive, a skill based issue or a fitness problem.

Personally - looks like a combination of all three and that lies squarely at the feet of the players and coach.

The ball movement slows down and Fremantle look dreadful - they lose confidence in their targets forward of the ball and when they can't "get out the back" over the top of a defence, there's really no other strategy.

Once a side bolsters the back half and does not allow the easy one over the back Fremantle don't look like scoring - again - that's a coaching issue.

on tabenar this is where you have to questions ross lyons coaching. drops him for the swans final then brings him back for the biggest game of the year... bizarre thinking

also did nothing to rejig that fwd line for pretty much 2 years

 

[rgauci]

Freo could sign Franklin and Kennedy tomorrow and would probably still only score 70-80 a game.

For curiosities sake. Care to elaborate.

 

[Sully90]

Re-watched the Hawks vs Dockers Prelim - not wanting to be a slanted football observer, but a couple of things were apparent.

Taberner had some really poor moments in the first quarter - dropped a sitter, failed to move off his line and allowed a Hawks player to intercept mark right on Freo's forward 50 and then a handball straight to Birchall.

His teammates see all of these things.

After a very strong start with fast ball movement, you can see Taberner actively being avoided by his teammates despite working to good spots on the ground.

Taberner aside Mayne had a howler - with Freo up by 2 goals 10 minutes into the first he has an uncontested mark 20 metres out directly in front and misses badly.

What is also evident is a lack of willingness by Fremantle players to pull the trigger on fast ball movement after the first 10 minutes.

Players are out leading to space on each wing and forward of the ball and rather than hit these targets with an element of risk, the players seem to go into their shell and look for targets square and behind the ball, the safe option.

Now, that's either a coaching directive, a skill based issue or a fitness problem.

Personally - looks like a combination of all three and that lies squarely at the feet of the players and coach.

The ball movement slows down and Fremantle look dreadful - they lose confidence in their targets forward of the ball and when they can't "get out the back" over the top of a defence, there's really no other strategy.

Once a side bolsters the back half and does not allow the easy one over the back Fremantle don't look like scoring - again - that's a coaching issue.

That's very good gameday analysis, but isn't this the Freo's drafting and trading thread?

 

[Mr Commissioner]

That's very good gameday analysis, but isn't this the Freo's drafting and trading thread?

Well yes, and all it does is add weight to the argument that Fremantle can't compete without a demanding presence in the forward half.

 

[Scotland]

For curiosities sake. Care to elaborate.

Everyone harps on about Freo's lack of forward options but it's their game plan which focuses on defensive spread that keeps their scores low. The Dogs kicked more goals in less games and their top 3 forwards other than Stringer (who's awesome but not really a key forward) were Dickson, Crameri and Redpath.

If you look back at St Kilda under Ross Lyon they had Riewoldt, Kozi and Milne and they still weren't really a high scoring team.

I obviously don't have a stat for it but on gut feel Freo would have the highest percentage of goalkickers leading towards goal of any team, IMO. It's a result of pushing numbers up to the middle and the wings that your ards are often leading back towards goal than at the ball carrier.

 

[Sully90]

Well yes, and all it does is add weight to the argument that Fremantle can't compete without a demanding presence in the forward half.

Which was not the question of the OP. This thread is all about it's recruiting (or lack thereof) of a competent key forward. If you want to comment about the practices of the players on gameday, start a different thread. Otherwise stop trying to dilute the argument by posting any anti-Fremantle comment that you can think of.

 

[Mr Commissioner]

Which was not the question of the OP. This thread is all about it's recruiting (or lack thereof) of a competent key forward.

You've just agreed with what I said.

 

[Sully90]

You've just agreed with what I said.

How so?

 

[Mr Commissioner]

How so?

 

[rgauci]

Everyone harps on about Freo's lack of forward options but it's their game plan which focuses on defensive spread that keeps their scores low. The Dogs kicked more goals in less games and their top 3 forwards other than Stringer (who's awesome but not really a key forward) were Dickson, Crameri and Redpath.

If you look back at St Kilda under Ross Lyon they had Riewoldt, Kozi and Milne and they still weren't really a high scoring team.

I obviously don't have a stat for it but on gut feel Freo would have the highest percentage of goalkickers leading towards goal of any team, IMO. It's a result of pushing numbers up to the middle and the wings that your ards are often leading back towards goal than at the ball carrier.

Not bad insight, it can't be just game plan because we were elite for half a year, burying teams with whirlwind football. We often got big leads by 1/4 time which isn't elite fitness.

It's ball movement IMO. It's sloppy, which is more players than game plan. That's why I think Bennell will be so useful, also the skills of youngsters like Weller, Blakeley and Langdon are top shelf. At some point they'll replace the encumbants which are holding us back.

 

[The Joker]

Sydney done well with poaching Franklin. They have one of, if not the, best foward line in the game but just because you have them doesnt mean its naturally going to happen...

That forward line got dismantled in '14 by that same Hawks team that took Freo apart in '15.

 

[XXRL]

not wanting to be a slanted football observer

LOL!! I assume that's a joke.

Other than that, I agree with most of your points about that game: Mayne's miss was very costly, Tabs was poor early and often our ball movement lacks risk and particularly precision.

As mentioned, however, this isn't a game analysis or a 'bag Ross Lyon's game plan' thread (of which there are already more than plenty).

 

[dcutter]

And what of the other 21 positions in the team that he helped fill, does that then reek of competence?

they've unearthed some good ones no doubt. But 15 years w/o a key forward is ridiculous.

And you won't win one without a few. As Freo fans, continually find out.

 

[Whatname]

Well yes, and all it does is add weight to the argument that Fremantle can't compete without a demanding presence in the forward half.

Your analysis contradicts this statement though your analysis is very good.

Freo's ball movement cost it all season and yes the slingshot football we played in the first hals of 2015 got found out.
But a demanding presence in the fwd half is not going to improve our ball use.

The hawks are the benchmark at the moment yet they have lost Frankiln and Roughies output is not what is was circa 2012/13.
Who cuts you up when you play Hawks, Bruest, Gunston, Smith and Rioli.

If Freo want to take the next step recruiting Bruce, Casboult, or whichever second string fwd you want to throw up is not going to help.
We must execute our skils better, we must spread out over the ground better and we must play players who make the right decison with the ball.

 

[Whatname]

they've unearthed some good ones no doubt. But 15 years w/o a key forward is ridiculous.

And you won't win one without a few. As Freo fans, continually find out.

Thats incorrect, Pav has won a couple of his AA's as a key forward.

Plus at one stage in the mid 2000's we had Pav, Tarrant and Longmuir up forward.

 

[dcutter]

Thats incorrect, Pav has won a couple of his AA's as a key forward.

Plus at one stage in the mid 2000's we had Pav, Tarrant and Longmuir up forward.

Pav they've had since 99. He's played a lone hand for the better part of 6-7 years now.

Tarrant hasn't been there since 09 - even then he was being played down back.
Longmuir, seriously? pretty sure he kicked his last goal in about 2006.

 

[Whatname]

Pav they've had since 99. He's played a lone hand for the better part of 6-7 years now.

Tarrant hasn't been there since 09 - even then he was being played down back.
Longmuir, seriously? pretty sure he kicked his last goal in about 2006.

You said we haven't had a key forward for the better part of 15 years, pretty sure that means from 2000 onwards.

 

[Sully90]

they've unearthed some good ones no doubt. But 15 years w/o a key forward is ridiculous.

And you won't win one without a few. As Freo fans, continually find out.

My comment was more to do with the point that Bond had failed due to failing to unearth a key forward. He hasn't been around for those 15 years first of all.

If you want an indication as to the true worth of his work, look at the list overhaul that he oversaw in 08/09. Those are the drafts from which he and others built our team.

 

[estibador]

Something tells me Bond would have had slightly more success at attracting a key forward if he was working for a big Victorian club.

AFL clubs don't operate in a vacuum where each one has the same pros and cons. Being based in Perth may have some advantages - like a nice little home ground advantage for instance - but being a prime destination for eastern states stars who have multiple offers on the table from their home state isn't one of them.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Everyone harps on about Freo's lack of forward options but it's their game plan which focuses on defensive spread that keeps their scores low. The Dogs kicked more goals in less games and their top 3 forwards other than Stringer (who's awesome but not really a key forward) were Dickson, Crameri and Redpath.

If you look back at St Kilda under Ross Lyon they had Riewoldt, Kozi and Milne and they still weren't really a high scoring team.

I obviously don't have a stat for it but on gut feel Freo would have the highest percentage of goalkickers leading towards goal of any team, IMO. It's a result of pushing numbers up to the middle and the wings that your ards are often leading back towards goal than at the ball carrier.

agree entirely

 

[Forward Press]

Sydney done well with poaching Franklin. They have one of, if not the, best foward line in the game but just because you have them doesnt mean its naturally going to happen...

That forward line got dismantled in '14 by that same Hawks team that took Freo apart in '15.

As the classic saying goes, no point having the best forward line in the country if your midfielders can't get it to you in the right positions.

We've also won a flag with players like Steven Armstrong and Ashley Hansen leading the way up front.

Freo definitely could do with a proven KPF but if they win a flag next year with Pav and Taberner not performing, suddenly the hindsight heroes will proclaim that forward lines are overrated. It's all a team game.

 

[Scotland]

Something tells me Bond would have had slightly more success at attracting a key forward if he was working for a big Victorian club.

AFL clubs don't operate in a vacuum where each one has the same pros and cons. Being based in Perth may have some advantages - like a nice little home ground advantage for instance - but being a prime destination for eastern states stars who have multiple offers on the table from their home state isn't one of them.

Hey, you got Colin Sylvia. And Danyle Pearce. And Zac Dawson.

 

[The Joker]

if your midfielders can't get it to you in the right positions.

This is the key to it all. Towards the end of the season Pavlich was out on great leads only to see the ball kicked over his head or along the ground, time after time.

With the exception of Hill, Mundy and now Bennell, the rest of the team needs to work on the delivery skills. For a man that gets so much of the football around the 50, D Pearce is one campaigner that needs to use it much better.

 

[Forward Press]

This is the key to it all. Towards the end of the season Pavlich was out on great leads only to see the ball kicked over his head or along the ground, time after time.

With the exception of Hill, Mundy and now Bennell, the rest of the team needs to work on the delivery skills. For a man that gets so much of the football around the 50, D Pearce is one campaigner that needs to use it much better.

Which, to risk a derailment, is a key reason why we improved so much in 2015. Forget the web and Sheppingham, our midfielders started to actually make the inside 50s count. Kennedy winning the Coleman and the other forwards chipping in to make our side the second most attacking side in the league is evidence of that.

If Bennell, Hill and Pearce can take advantage more often, Freo will suddenly be a 4 goal better side. I still think Lyon needs to keep shifting from his traditional defensive focus and adding Bennell must surely be an indicator of that.