No Oppo Supporters General AFL Discussion #10 - Carlton Posters ONLY!

[Jimmae]

What do you do for the other 30 hours of the week?

Match day, plus training, plus video review, plus strategy and development meetings probably already make up 30 hours (and thus part time).

The extra time would probably provide for recovery sessions and additional skills training.

 

[thylacine60]

The sooner umpies get more respect the better the game will be. For the 40 Billionth time let me lay it out: our game is virtually un-umpirable now. The speed, the grey areas in the rules, the pressure, the cameras, the divers.....even people who adjudicate at kid's level say it ain't no walk in the park. Umpires love the game too - the game has to love em back.

 

[ESKIE]

Yeh but can we have the rub of the green for Once ... ffs

 

[thylacine60]

get up him, kochie.....

Koch slams Kennett over Hawthorn's reliance on pokies

 

[thylacine60]

A 34-round season? The idea's no Gaff

 

[PrinceCharles]

A 34-round season? The idea's no Gaff

He must have been sick the day they taught proof-reading.

 

[JustaBattler]

The sooner umpies get more respect the better the game will be. For the 40 Billionth time let me lay it out: our game is virtually un-umpirable now. The speed, the grey areas in the rules, the pressure, the cameras, the divers.....even people who adjudicate at kid's level say it ain't no walk in the park. Umpires love the game too - the game has to love em back.

I agree with you that AFL is a very difficult game to umpire.

I also agree that the rules have become almost impossible to officiate over with easy consistency. My two bugbears are the handball or incorrect disposal rule which is frequently ignored and the in the back rule which seems to be arbitrarily applied.

Still, the game is so fast and frenetic these days and so much congestion around contested ball and players so well drilled - that it is virtually impossible for an umpire to see everything from every angle. This almost forces umpires to make decisions about the relative merits of this player's infraction versus the other player's infraction - often occurring coincidentally.

In many ways, what makes AFL so great to watch is also what makes AFL so difficult to officiate over. There is no concept of offside rule so the action is coming from every direction and every angle.

Should field umps be FT professionals?

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Should field umps be FT professionals?[/QUOTE]

Yes they should and well renumerated. It is such a frenetic and fast paced game that umps need eyes in the back of there head. I will tell you one thing from sitting at the back of umpire video review sessions and observing (This is at junior level) They put a lot of there unpaid time into it and try to be the very best they can be! Fair crack of the Sav I say.

 

[thylacine60]

JaB's point on disposal is valid. If they drew a line now and started paying incorrect disposal, the game would see a definite slow down and supporters would be screaming. Fact is we are throwing the ******* thing nowadays.

 

[BlueGum]

S**** me. Fundamental distinctive feature of our game was the handballing. Skill.

 

[JustaBattler]

JaB's point on disposal is valid. If they drew a line now and started paying incorrect disposal, the game would see a definite slow down and supporters would be screaming. Fact is we are throwing the ******* thing nowadays.

Very hard to officiate in congestion the old throwing rule....also encourages 'correct tackling form' to lock a player's arm(s) and throw them to the ground - because what other choice is there if umps don't pay fast frees? Umps are on a hiding to nothing with this silly rule - let em 'throw' a ball for up to 5 meters say...and un congest the game.

 

[thylacine60]

Carlton Storm

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Imo we need to police/enforce less numbers around the ball sort of like zones, possibly 6 in each third per team maybe..? This would allow for more one on one contested style footy and possibly bring back the big Jezza's. Just my two cents and thanks for reading/listening

Spectators I feel would sacrifice some pace in the game for the above.

 

[AceAndy]

Imo we need to police/enforce less numbers around the ball sort of like zones, possibly 6 in each third per team maybe..? This would allow for more one on one contested style footy and possibly bring back the big Jezza's. Just my two cents and thanks for reading/listening

Spectators I feel would sacrifice some pace in the game for the above.

I think something has to be done to stop the rolling maul that seems to follow around the ground stoppages. Surely it wouldnt be too difficult for umpires to clear the space around a ball up so you only have a ruckmen and one other in a 15 m square.

I feel like i am in a minority but i dont want to see anything that slows down the game. i would support 6 interchange players and no cap.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Carlton Storm

17 finals series in a 20 year history .... I'de take that.

 

[BluStreak]

Going with the incorrect disposal comments. Why could it not be that you have two options of disposal by hand or foot.
If you don't do either than reward the tackler. If the ump does not see it then call play on.
if the player has not taken control of the ball then it would be holding the man.
Frees that quickly scatter the players and we do not have rolling mauls.

 

[footyfan1978]

17 finals series in a 20 year history .... I'de take that.

I do not know how many top 4's or 5's we made for finals from 1968 to 1988 but tipping it would come close to that. Funny how people in media talk about making finals so many years in a row now but forget to make the final 8 is not as hard as making finals when it was only top 4 or 5. I remember a season like 1984 I felt a complete failure. We still finished 4th. Nowadays the average supporter thinks that is actually good.

 

[thylacine60]

there were a third fewer clubs back then

 

[footyfan1978]

Imo we need to police/enforce less numbers around the ball sort of like zones, possibly 6 in each third per team maybe..? This would allow for more one on one contested style footy and possibly bring back the big Jezza's. Just my two cents and thanks for reading/listening

Spectators I feel would sacrifice some pace in the game for the above.

I think something has to be done to stop the rollingmaul that seems to follow around the ground stoppages. Surely it wouldnt be too difficult for umpires to clear the space around a ball up so you only have a ruckmen and one other in a 15 m square.

I feel like i am in a minority but i dont want to see anything that slows down the game. i would support 6 interchange players and no cap.

Yeah, nah, * that. It really is a simple solution to rolling mauls. Remove the source of the cause. The mid 1990's they went from 2 interchange players and doubled it to 4. In time full time coaches worked out to use the extra players as a rotation system and not a pure interchange system. In time that lead to clubs training players to run up and down the ground as their main thing to learn and get good at tackling in big numbers. This takes a lot of energy hence they just rotate the freshest 18 players out of 22 on field at any moment and hey presto we arrive at the rolling mauls we have now. Now before the interchange system became abused as a rotation system in the new century we probably had no more than 20 to 30 interchanges a game when it was just 2 on bench going up to about 1992 or 93.

So either we take it back to 2 on bench OR we limit the number of interchanges to around 30 maximum a game. I believe that in time will mean the coaches will notice the scope to use it as a rotation system no longer exists and therefore this game style of invade other teams forward territory on mass will not be sustainable. When that sinks in coaches will condition players to play more positional based as players with little access to rest on bench cannot keep running up and down the ground as they do now with luxury of knowing they can rest on bench for 3 or 4 minutes in games which been the trend for last 10 to 15 years. Their way of maintaing their ability to play out 120 minute matches will be less running up other end of ground and look more after your area of ground and let guys up other end take care of their area with help from the ruckmen, wingers and followers.

It is no accident flooding tactics started to begin again around 1996 year with a Rodney Eade Swans team first made use of the extra interchange players to make use of rotating everyone to keep them fresh to achieve that regular flooding tactic. As a whole it took a good decade or more for all clubs to master this basic tactic. At the same time the training started to focus more and more on tackling and becoming rugby like and using kicking backwards tactics etc etc.

2, 4 or 5 on bench. Not that fussed. But 30 interchange transactions a match should be plenty for a coach to use for positional strategies and injury maintenance but no be able to use rotation as a ways and means to turn a game of 18 v 18 into a game really of 22 v 22.

 

[footyfan1978]

there were a third fewer clubs back then

4 out of 12 teams making finals is only a third of teams competing in finals series. That was a big chunk of league history. I marvel at Melbourn's records in 1950's as something no club has matched in league history as a dynasty.
For rescent decades we have had about half the teams competing in finals. The bar has been lowered.
It is only in recent years we up to 18 clubs that a top 8 of 18 is getting back to something more sensible to give credit to just "making finals series"

 

[thylacine60]

not sure what point you are pushing ff78?

 

[ODNBlue]

Going with the incorrect disposal comments. Why could it not be that you have two options of disposal by hand or foot.
If you don't do either than reward the tackler. If the ump does not see it then call play on.
if the player has not taken control of the ball then it would be holding the man.
Frees that quickly scatter the players and we do not have rolling mauls.

Go back to the 70's and early 80's (and probably before)... that's exactly how it was.

 

[BluStreak]

It helps to remember by replaying games from that era.

 

[Chookaradley]

The sooner umpies get more respect the better the game will be. For the 40 Billionth time let me lay it out: our game is virtually un-umpirable now. The speed, the grey areas in the rules, the pressure, the cameras, the divers.....even people who adjudicate at kid's level say it ain't no walk in the park. Umpires love the game too - the game has to love em back.

Great post thy

On top of all of this. Umpires are magically meant to somehow manufacture a sceanario where both teams recieve a similar number of free kicks.

 

[Dadda Dave]

Great post thy

On top of all of this. Umpires are magically meant to somehow manufacture a sceanario where both teams recieve a similar number of free kicks.

I'm not worried about the similar number of frees for each team, it's the inconsistency that pisses me off when free's get paid one way and not the other or paying free's in the first quater and not the second .