General AFL thread 2016

[sauce_head]

Bottom four deadset makes me moist...

View attachment 236878

Can't help but laugh!

 

[sauce_head]

On the flipside people who like to believe the BS about how 'great' he is wont face the facts they he inherited good mature lists at the Saints and Freo. He had AA talent on his books and was in the right place at the right time. Hayes, Roo, Fisher, NDS, Goddard, Pavlich, Sandilands, Fyfe, Mundy, McPharlin AA talents at their peak. He currently has 0 flags next to his name and lets see how his w:l % holds up in the next few years. He was a decent coach for a short window - he mastered the 2005 'Bloods' game plan of winning games scoring 60-70 points but those days are long gone. This plan no longer works for a variety of reasons and he hasn't adapted. A 'great' coach adapts as the game changes. Obvious.

Check out our average score in 09. 10, less good.

 

[burningdwarf]

Ross is a pretty interesting personality in our game and has done a lot to develop our code tactically, especially defensively. His teams set the benchmark and so many have followed suit.

I have always watched him with special interest as, besides the fact that he coached us, I did a pre-coaching soccer course at Ajax in Amsterdam 10 years ago as I have a background in psychology and was looking at the time to go into coaching. Anyway, to cut a long story short, out of the 2 week course we had about 3 whole days discussing pressure as a concept. The one thing that really stuck out for me was how much they emphasised that there was a huge psychological component to pressure in that, even if you are fit (as pretty much all pro footballers are), a player is likely to be able to exert effective pressure if they feel that it will have a positive outcome. Otherwise, it becomes laborious and taxing mentally. Basically that if the players are "hunting" as a team they all feed off it and it makes their pressure even more effective as they are getting rewarded often for it.

In light of the above, I really believe the mentally draining nature of his pressure style is why Lyon's teams do well for a few years and then fade. Without the reward from this constant pressure, the players become cooked mentally. To freshen all this up, Lyon would need to develop a gameplan that was more like the Hawks based on possession. Possession is great mentally for players because, again, it is more rewarding mentally to do hard running for a positive outcome. The problem for Lyon is it is not that easy to develop this type of positive, possession based teams. It takes years of list-building and an ability to teach in a different way than teaching defensive structures. It takes a Clarkson type basically and they don't grow on trees.

Seeing how Ross adapts to the challenges he has with Freo now is going to be fascinating. Watching from afar, I don't think he has the skill-set to create a different gameplan but i might be wrong. For Freo's sake I'd better be because they have invested heavily in him.

If you're still interested in managing a soccer team and feel like moving interstate for a challenge, I'm currently in a Div 8 team in Canberra that lost 6-0 yesterday

 

[VDS66]

Premiership winning coach. No asterix

The Bradburies of AFL coaching.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

If you're still interested in managing a soccer team, I'm currently in a Div 8 team in Canberra that lost 6-0 yesterday, if you feel like moving interstate for a challenge

Ha ha, I live in Sweden now and have since 2006 when my other half conned me over here so it would be a hell of a move for what seems like a massive challenge. I've been trying to get us back to Australia for a while though so I'll put it to her and see how I go.

 

[gringo2011]

On the flipside people who like to believe the BS about how 'great' he is wont face the facts they he inherited good mature lists at the Saints and Freo. He had AA talent on his books and was in the right place at the right time. Hayes, Roo, Fisher, NDS, Goddard, Pavlich, Sandilands, Fyfe, Mundy, McPharlin AA talents at their peak. He currently has 0 flags next to his name and lets see how his w:l % holds up in the next few years. He was a decent coach for a short window - he mastered the 2005 'Bloods' game plan of winning games scoring 60-70 points but those days are long gone. This plan no longer works for a variety of reasons and he hasn't adapted. A 'great' coach adapts as the game changes. Obvious.

I think there is a middle ground. He is obviously a brilliant tactician. He has inherited very good lists but so did Buckley. At the Saints he cut in heavily to our list getting rid of guys like Voss, Penny, X, Maguire etc. He looked like he cut back hard when he came to us and while his nucleus was very good he did develop players that he backed in. I think Freo he has done similar with getting his own list together. Anyway he's been unlucky because he has had teams a couple of goals off holding up the cup and if any one had come off he would be legend at either club. I can respect his ability, don't like how he left but m now happy with what we are doing. They were some good footy years he over saw still.

 

[CHBench]

Have also heard this before too

 

[Stewart66]

Bottom four deadset makes me moist...

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Particularly when pies don't have a 1st rounder already given it away

Imagine if drug cheats win there will be blood on the floor

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Its OK, he has a contract

Could we pick him up as our defensive coach.

 

[Defacto]

Natives will be restless on the Freo board, might wonder over and witness the melt

you missed the melt unfortunately... its occurred after the doggies game and then went into full melt down after the GC game. theyre kind of in between denial and acceptance right now. strange place to be

 

[Defacto]

the more things change, the more they stay the same. that's the best way to sum up ross

all the old issues are still there. almost 9 years as senior coach and he still hasnt corrected his weaknesses

 

[sammm]

the more things change, the more they stay the same. that's the best way to sum up ross

all the old issues are still there. almost 9 years as senior coach and he still hasnt corrected his weaknesses

yep, same old, same old

 

[saintbill]

Particularly when pies don't have a 1st rounder already given it away

Imagine if drug cheats win there will be blood on the floor

Forgot they gave up their first rounder this year also. That stings, if you get it wrong in terms of where your list is at, it is simply devastating.

 

[L_W_P]

On the flipside people who like to believe the BS about how 'great' he is wont face the facts they he inherited good mature lists at the Saints and Freo. He had AA talent on his books and was in the right place at the right time. Hayes, Roo, Fisher, NDS, Goddard, Pavlich, Sandilands, Fyfe, Mundy, McPharlin AA talents at their peak. He currently has 0 flags next to his name and lets see how his w:l % holds up in the next few years. He was a decent coach for a short window - he mastered the 2005 'Bloods' game plan of winning games scoring 60-70 points but those days are long gone. This plan no longer works for a variety of reasons and he hasn't adapted. A 'great' coach adapts as the game changes. Obvious.

It's amazing how much this "stat" gets thrown out when people talk about Ross Lyon's style.

In 2009 we finished with a total points for of 2197. Just a tiny fraction under 100 points per game and an ave winning margin of 39.5 points.
In 2010 we finished with a total points for of 1935. Just under 90 points per game and an ave winning margin of 36 points. This was in a season which saw our #1 forward injured for most of the year.

St Kilda had no issues with scoring under Ross Lyon.

 

[Barrels]

FYI, Beaumaris had a fun day in the VAFA's Premier B division, winning by 34 points over Parkdale courtesy of a bag of 6 from Milney, 2 from Tom Simpkin and featuring Sandy's Sean McLaren as well.

Good for some!

 

[Diehard Saint]

the more things change, the more they stay the same. that's the best way to sum up ross

all the old issues are still there. almost 9 years as senior coach and he still hasnt corrected his weaknesses

"Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results is the first sign of insanity!" Einstein.

 

[L_W_P]

FYI, Beaumaris had a fun day in the VAFA's Premier B division, winning by 34 points over Parkdale courtesy of a bag of 6 from Milney, 2 from Tom Simpkin and featuring Sandy's Sean McLaren as well.

Good for some!

The former Swan?

There were some big wraps on him when he was let go. How'd he look?

 

[Barrels]

The former Swan?

There were some big wraps on him when he was let go. How'd he look?

No idea, just looking at the results!

 

[sonnywalters]

Worst post ever.

Worst post 'ever' you think? You think Ross is a genius? 10 seasons 0 flags. Some genius. For most of those seasons he had good mature lists. He is a fraud and has been found out. Ill say it again. 10 seasons - 0 flags. He aint no genius.

 

[plugger66]

Worst every you think? You think Ross is a genius? 10 seasons 0 flags. Some genius. For most of those seasons he had good mature lists. He is a fraud and has been found out. Ill say it again. 10 seasons - 0 flags. He aint no genius.

You are right on that but he is a very good coach who gets the most out of his list. Well he has until this season.

 

[sonnywalters]

It's amazing how much this "stat" gets thrown out when people talk about Ross Lyon's style.

In 2009 we finished with a total points for of 2197. Just a tiny fraction under 100 points per game and an ave winning margin of 39.5 points.
In 2010 we finished with a total points for of 1935. Just under 90 points per game and an ave winning margin of 36 points. This was in a season which saw our #1 forward injured for most of the year.

St Kilda had no issues with scoring under Ross Lyon.

2009 - 1st qual final - 80-52
09 - prelim - 60-53
09 -GF- 68-80

2010 - 2nd qual - 83-79
10 - 2nd prelim - 88-64
10 - GF 1 - 68 68
1- - GF 2 - 52 108

2011 - 2nd elim - 57 - 82

So there is 8 finals where we failed to score more than 90 points even once.
In 5 out of 8 we failed to score more than 70 points.
Our average score across 8 finals was 69.5.

So yeah - the stats speak for themselves. Not sure what you are 'amazed' about?????? Have a good hard look at the facts staring you in the face before you fantasise about Ross Lyon.
If you average 69 points - firstly you cant expect to win finals unless you fluke a few and secondly you cant claim to be a good side. He was always dicing with a loss.

Honestly outside of Swans 05 game plan explain to me how 69.5 is an acceptable score and how you expect to win a flag when 69.5 is your average score.

 

[sonnywalters]

You are right on that but he is a very good coach who gets the most out of his list. Well he has until this season.

69.5 average score in 8 finals.
I rest my case.

And we had a very good list. Fisher, Roo, Montagna, NDS, Goddard, Hayes, Dempster all AA players. Now if you give any coach 7 AA players at the their peak age they are an absolute lock for top 3. Humphrey B Bear could coach a list with 7 AAs on it (at their peak) to a GF appearance. Lyon's game plan was too sh*t to actually win one.

 

[sauce_head]

Worst post 'ever' you think? You think Ross is a genius? 10 seasons 0 flags. Some genius. For most of those seasons he had good mature lists. He is a fraud and has been found out. Ill say it again. 10 seasons - 0 flags. He aint no genius.

Please refer to the subsequent discussion before making an even greater fool of yourself

 

[sauce_head]

69.5 average score in 8 finals.
I rest my case.

I got to remember to stay off big footy during school holidays. It's nobody's fault but my own.

 

[sonnywalters]

Please refer to the subsequent discussion before making an even greater fool of yourself

I read LWPs post and comprehensively proved him wrong.

We averaged 69.5 points in 8 finals with Lyon. This is a plain fact. We had 7 AA players.

The delusional Lyon defenders are just that - delusional. And I honestly dont why they bother or care about defending him. It is just plain weird. He certainly doesnt give a sh*t about Saints fans. Not sure why people still want to make him out to be a guru when he simply got lucky and still lives in 2005 'Bloods' land. Everyone has moved on - I recommend others move on from Lyon. He is yersterday's man. And he wasnt even that great yesterday. 10 seasons - 0 flags. Call me a fool all night long - it is foolish to defend Lyon. And for what purpose? What does it serve? It doesnt help anything. I have presented an argument - and you have gone personal calling me a fool. Seriously what is that?
Are you all a bunch of p66 acolytes now? It is plain sad that people are still fondling themselves over Lyon. Almost embarrassing.