Get rid of the Brownslow

[Port Adelaide 1870]

No servo Im not Power mad far from it, thank you for your input.
If you read carefully at no point do I whinge as you put it.. I always raise a point for discussion or a national point of view.
It is the very capitulation point of view
that you are currently extolling that prevented the SANFL from fielding a team in the VFL previously.

Their points of contention were

National medals, historical recognition, father son rules and a whole host of issues that are being flippantly diregarded by The AFL and their victorian compatriots..

I have no problem with the AFL, Big footyboards or the opinions of people on them.
I do not believe football revolves around Adelaide, but believe it is no longer a Victorian game and do not think on a national level we should bow to a Melbourne football history that has no relativity to Football outside of Melbourne.

even the VFL understood it had to move with the times...AFL. not melbourne football league

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

At this point I will gracefully bow out and allow you guys to slug it out..

This issue will not lay down believe me..it has been raised at an official level and will continue to be raised..

Thanks for your input guys

PA 1870

 

[dons_r_tops]

i was going to reply but have changed my mind, PA1870, You have in the past made some good points but now ...... your just a raving d*ckh*ad far worse than dan24 ever was

 

[servo]

dons_r_tops please lets not start that debate

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

dons_r_tops
could you please elaborate somewhat to the original point of discussion,
it was put there for debate. If you do not agree with it please say so and put forward your reasons why.

I have read many of your posts, some of them somewhat contraversial, at no point have I taken it upon myself to attack you personally.
Big Footy boards is here to raise issues for discussion and debate.
I make no apologies for raising contraversial issues.

However I do expect some rational and spirited discussion to occur, not simply rabid abuse based on biase, spite, predjudice
and lack of articulation.

Thanks for your reply none the less dons-r-tops, it is a shame you cant keep to the topic at hand as your responses are generally quite lively and intelligent.


PA 1870

 

[Richmondfan#1]

Port Adelaide 187000000000bc,
I HAVE THE BEST IDEA IN THE WORLD:

How about we.......hang on..........it's coming.............................................................................................................................................................................. ...............................................Let's keep the Brownlow how it is!

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

Richmondfan: C'mon now that's a bit of a radical step !!! surely we can't have a traditional event.. what are you thinking... do you want to stop people that could possibly be newcomers to the game identifying certain things with the pinnacle of the game thus gaining a bit of a foothold into the world of afl..

Why would you want to honour the proud tradition this game has when you could tear it away and put in it's place something marketers could pin their logo's to.. Imagine the Nokia AFL Player of the Year or the Mazda Man of the Season...hav you no vision !?!?!?! The money we could make... hell it could even to serve to inflate payer payments in the long run which the boys so thoroughly need!!!

Maybe we could put Orange stripes down the brownlow for a season or 2

This would be a step in the right direction for the AFL.. OUT WITH THE BROWNLOW.. IN WITH THE PANASONIC PLAYER OF THE YEAR !!

 

[Crowmad]

PA1870, I agree with you...

I thought the non-Victorian teams were sposed to have joined the AFL, not the VFL.

The name "Brownlow" should have been changed as soon as the "AFL" was formed. That name could have been kept as a Victorian honour, and a new name for the new competition, acknowledging all Australian participation.

If the Victorian teams were willing to give back the $4million or so each non-Victorian team payed to form the AFL, I'm sure the non-Vic teams could form a vibrant team of our own, and those Victorian teams could go the way they were going before our money rescued them.

 

[sandie]

Question
Are all South Aussies w***ers?

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Mantis

 

[Daniel]

However inviting it may be to attack PA 1870 because of his backhanded insults and obvious intent to stir people up, there is no reason to start in with SA abuse. If you don’t like his posts, then ignore them or respond appropriately. It only casts you in a bad light if you do otherwise.

My main concern with the Brownlow medal is that it is awarded by umpires. That’s inappropriate for professional football.

An umpire should be concentrating wholly on making correct decisions, not taking note of how particular players are performing. If they take note of personalities, then it surely influences their decisions. Why aren’t they concentrating on infringements rather than individuals?

Umpires are poorly placed to judge who has played well. I remember hearing that umpires examine statistics before casting their votes, which I am also against. Most football statistics are misleading and should not be used as the basis for votes.

 

[sandie]

Daniel
People have been trying to respond sensibly byt to no avail. Sth Aussies just keep going on about it being a Vic award & the latest about giving back the money that interstate teams paid to get into the comp. They don't want to hear any responses that don't agree with their ideas.
Therefore I think my response to those people is quite appropriate, if they don't like playing within the rules & conditions of the AFL, then they can go back to the SANFL.
I agree that the umpires aren't the best ones to give the votes, but the name should never be changed, Brownlow is & always will be an honoured name in AFL ranks.

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Mantis

 

[Drakey]

Mazda Man of the Season? COOL That really rolls of the tounge. How about Michelin Man of the season. The medal could look like a little bloke made out of tyres.

It should probably be called the "thats an extra $200,000 per year on my contract" medal.

Please excuss my fellow south aussies. Sometimes the chip on the shoulder gets pretty heavy.

Brownlow sounds fine to me. Although that Mazda man is REAL catchie.

 

[sandie]

Cheers Drakey
My abusive reply was only addressed to
the people who are starting topics like, let's
get rid of some Vic teams, change the
name of the Brownlow etc. Like in all states, there are supporters of all teams (except carlscum) that are sensible fans.
PS I agree Mazda man is rather catchy



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Mantis

 

[Daniel]

Sandie,

In case you hadn't noticed, I am from South Australia. You shouldn't generalise.

The title of the award isn't that important; it's what it signifies that counts. But that doesn't mean the name of the award should be for sale, no matter how catchy the title. There is already far too much advertising in the world.

 

[sandie]

What does the award signify to you Daniel. Oh and if you hadn't worked it I was being sarcastic about calling it the Mazda man.

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Mantis

 

[Westy Boy]

PA 1870,

One question, and I want you to answer it honestly.
If the SANFL was the league to expand nationally instead of the old VFL, would you still like the Magarey medal awarded to the B&F of the league? As you suugested for the Brownlow to be awarded a "La Trobe league", would you deem it appropriate to see "the Magarey medal which predated the whole concept of the Brownslow by about 30 years" be awarded to some second rate league in SA. And in regards to your 4 teams out of VIC, if the SANFL was the AFL, would you like to see the Glenelg Magpies?

PA 1870- Don't be a coward, answer this post from your heart!

 

[WCE2000]

Brilliantly put, Westy Boy.
Lets PA1870 talk himself out of this one.
And Westy Boy is right, dont just say 'yes' to try and get out of it, because we know that if the SANFL was to expand nationally you would never say get rid of Magerey Medal.

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for all your footballing needs visit my AFL web-site at www.bigfooty.com/users/afl/eastsydney

 

[walshy1993]

victoria predated sth australia by playing good football
your jealous of playing in a victorian dominated competion
as the afl finals series will show

 

[Westy Boy]

WCE2000
Shucks!!! Thanks.
But it looks like PA1870, who usually has alot to say at about this time of the night, suprisingly hasn't made any posts. Cat got your tongue?? Doesn't look like he/she likes it when people make suggestions for the club/ league closest to his/her heart. Just answer the question!!

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Thanks Westy Boy, WCE 2000,Walshy.

I appreciate your questions, Westy Boy,I have one concern initially, that is you have asked me to answer honestly ? There seems to be a predetermined thought pattern amongst you that my answers are not honest !

WCE2000,
you have already predetermined my answer by your reckoning !


Walshy,
you have undertaken to determine my state of perception with regards to the amount of Victorian teams in the AFL....


Gentleman Please.....
The Idea is.. to post a question and wait for the response, this is good communication.. If you jump in or give an answer for me ...this is not..
As I give you the courtesy of posting a reply then answering ..without predjudice, I would asume the same courtesy..

Thank you

PA 1870

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Time escapes me....I will answer tonight thank you for your interest
PA 1870

 

[Daniel]

Sandie,

It signifies the best and fairest player in the competition. So whether it's called the AFL MVP award, Mazda Man of the Year (I know you were kidding) or whatever, it still means the same thing. That's important.

Not that the best player always wins it, of course.

 

[Dan26]

That the most important point of all Daniel.

I love the Bronwlow, but the way it is voted on now means that the best player doesn't always win it. I'm all for keeping thr Brownlow, in fact I love the Brownlow.

But it would be far more appropriate to use the media, (in its various forms) as a judge for who the best player is. We can still tally iup the votes on channel 7 as per normal, but instead of going to a lucky winner (like Wanganeen in 1993, or Libba in 1990),it would go to the ACTUAL best player in the comp.

I give much more importance to the AFL Players asociation MVP, which this year went to Kouta, as a guide to who the AFL's best player of the year has been

Now, we all know that Kouta has been the best player of 2000. He has every right tp win a medal of some sort which deems him the competitons best. So the brownlow,(which may not go to him), would lack credibility from me if Kouta didn't win it.

The Bronwlow is supposed to go to the competitons best player. If it doesn't, it's WRONG.

 

[WCE2000]

OK, Dan24, i have explained this several times already but no-one seems to answer. So i will repeat this again:

The way the voting system for the Brownlow Medal should go is not 3, 2, 1 because it gives an unfair advantage to players in a team which can't make the finals (eg. Nathan Buckley).
The problems with the current system now are:
1. Instead of the award going to the best player in the AFL. It goes to the player who is of the most value to his club. This is because the players are competing against there own players week in week out, and the award will generally go to the player he can outscore the players from his own club, than anybody else at their respective club.
Eg, Buckley is worth more to Collingwood than Kouta is to Carlton. Without Bucks, Collingwood will struggle even more than they do now to win. With out Kouta, Carlton still have Camporeale, Bradley, Whitnall etc,.
2. Players who do not win the Brownlow Medal, or do not get as high in the Brownlow Count as what the should have, can always use the excuse that they had to much competition to compete with everyweek.
3. The man-of-the-match always gets 3 points. So for instance in one game James Hird gets 50 possesions, 10 goals, 25 marks. He gets 3 Brownlow Medal Votes. Where in another match, there is no stand out player and the man-of-the-match is Warren Tredrea who gets only 20 possesions, 4 goals and 6 marks. But yet both Tredrea and Hird end up with 3 votes, that is not fair!!

The system that i have proposed is one which will give a player NO excuses what so ever, if they do not go as good as what they are expected to in the Brownlow Medal Count.
The way i think the system should be awarded has the following guidelines.
1. The Umpires give votes to as many players as they feel deserve it. Eg, if the game is of low standard and they only feel 3 or 4 players should get votes, so be it. However if they feel the game is just of an unbeliavably high standard, and they give votes to 20 players, well than they can. But i think the normal amount of players to recieve votes will be about 10.
2. The umpires than give all the players that they deserve votes, a score out 5, this would be how many votes they recieve. Eg, the best player does not have to get 5 votes. But the umpires can give 5 votes to as many players as they feel deserve it. In the example i used above, Hird would defientely be given 5 votes, and then Tredrea would recieve probably only 2 votes.

If this system is used than no players have an excuse for not doing as well as what everybody said they would do in the Brownlow at the start of the season.

I will run my best and fairest on the web-site that i have on big footy using this exact system.

Also for traditionalists who do not want to get rid of the 3, 2, 1 system we can also keep that system as well. The winner of doing it that way would be given the MVP. because that is what they are. They are the most valuable player to their club.
Both awards could be given on the Brownlow Medal Night.
I'll give you 2 match examples of how the both systems can be awarded together.
(in brackets are the number of MVP Votes the player gets)
Essendon v Kangaroos:
5- James Hird (3)
4- Wayne Carey (2), Joe Misiti (1)
3- Blake Caracella
2- Peter Bell, Adam Simpson, Matthew Lloyd
1- Anthony Stevens, Mick Matryn, Adam Ramauskas.
So in that game you can see that Hird would have recieved only 3 votes in the MVP. Carey 2 and Misiti 1.
Port Adelaide v St Kilda:
2- Warren Tredrea (3), Robert Harvey (2)
1- Nathan Burke (1), Barry Hall, Nick Stevens, Darren Mead.
In this match Tredrea gets 3, Harvey gets 2 and Burke gets 1 vote for the MVP award.

Because both awards would be judged by the umps, you can kind of incorporate the to systems to be awarded at the same time.
If that became to confusing for supporters than the MVP could be scrapped, and the Brownlow Medal be the only award given out, under my proposed system.

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for all your footballing needs visit my AFL web-site at www.bigfooty.com/users/afl/eastsydney

 

[WCE2000]

Are going to answer the big question Port. You said tonight and still no answer

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for all your footballing needs visit my AFL web-site at www.bigfooty.com/users/afl/eastsydney