Rumour GFC 2021 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists

[Johnny Cattery]

It's interesting you bring the bolded up, as my partner always points out something funny during our finals games - and that's that the players never lock arms and always stand with their arms clasped behind their backs like they're at assembly.

While I didn't notice it at first, it's become much more apparent when every other team seems to lock arms, and in turn have more of a 'mateship' culture going on - see Dogs and Demons in the GF, and Richmond during their peak.

Again, very innocuous, but really does speak to the sort of environment that we've had - where some seniors players are preferenced despite form (Dahl, Atkins, Kolo, Hendo, Atkins, Sav etc.) and others are excluded (Clark, Kreuger, Narkle, Evans, Fort, Constable etc.)

Hopefully Hocking returning, along with Kel and resetting all our coaching staff and bringing in new people, will help bring everyone back together - because it has gotten a bit too insular (and turned into quite frankly a bit of a shitty environment when talking about Scarlett and his dealings as an example) in recent years - as evidenced by the whole Clark saga. Probably why Scott needs to go too - as he's endorsed this whole process/culture for far too long.

It was raised some years ago and Bartel (still playing at the time) said "we don't need to have a cuddle".

what I am more impressed by is that when the captain addresses the team them they always stand in a circle, so that everyone can see and hear. I have a feeling Harley introduced that. contrastingly, the insistence on standing alone is a bit bizarre.

 

[BigCat1]

I think 34 is a bit generous. I would trade 34 for say Richmond's 40,44,
send 44 and Krueger for Collingwood 2022r2

Coll won’t do that. Next year the draft isn’t looking like it will be tainted with extra priority picks and father sons.

Effectively that would be around #20-27 in a year we really need picks for Krueger and 37 in a year we don’t need picks.

If you have patience that would be a terrific
deal.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I think 34 is a bit generous. I would trade 34 for say Richmond's 40,44,
send 44 and Krueger for Collingwood 2022r2

We arent getting that much for kreuger when they have psd leverage. No chance.

 

[caitsith01]

It's interesting you bring the bolded up, as my partner always points out something funny during our finals games - and that's that the players never lock arms and always stand with their arms clasped behind their backs like they're at assembly.

While I didn't notice it at first, it's become much more apparent when every other team seems to lock arms, and in turn have more of a 'mateship' culture going on - see Dogs and Demons in the GF, and Richmond during their peak.

Again, very innocuous, but really does speak to the sort of environment that we've had - where some seniors players are preferenced despite form (Dahl, Atkins, Kolo, Hendo, Atkins, Sav etc.) and others are excluded (Clark, Kreuger, Narkle, Evans, Fort, Constable etc.)

Hopefully Hocking returning, along with Kel and resetting all our coaching staff and bringing in new people, will help bring everyone back together - because it has gotten a bit too insular (and turned into quite frankly a bit of a shitty environment when talking about Scarlett and his dealings as an example) in recent years - as evidenced by the whole Clark saga. Probably why Scott needs to go too - as he's endorsed this whole process/culture for far too long.

This was a shift that was noticeable around 2013 or so IMHO, I think the club thought it was going to project that this is a group of serious professionals not a bunch of kids having a bit of fun. But I agree, there's a real lack of apparent connection at times, great clubs run on emotion as well as logic.

 

[tielgaz]

Dockers are looking at trading 6, 8 and 27 to Suns for 3, 19 and 22. Then offering Cats 22 for Clark.

Also a chance to trade 6 and 8 to Adelaide for 4, 23 and something else and then offering 23 for Clark.

19 thanks

 

[00VicWard001]

We did the same thing between 2007 - 2011, never locking arms. I always thought that was a good thing- no need to make some stupid symbolic gesture of unity. Indeed, during that period whenever I saw a team lock arms and put on a macho stare at us, I just thought they looked silly and intimidated.

They put their arms around each other when they huddle before the game starts and at the end when they win. So yeah, it's meaningless.

 

[Vivy]

We arent getting that much for kreuger when they have psd leverage. No chance.

I'd send 34 and Krueger for their future 2nd. If we're getting a pick for Clark we are probably only taking those first 3 selections and rookies.

It will probably end up being a pick between 22-28 which is a nice bump and gives us more picks in a year where we will have more list spots available

 

[caitsith01]

We all seem to be forgetting that clark has his chances at AFL level after a great pre season campaign, and played average football.. He didnt hold his spot or deserve it. He lost it due to poor form. People seem to forget this

He needs to be played consistently in the back pocket as a rebounding high defender. If that pushes Tuohy or someone else into a different role, so be it.

 

[BORIS332]

Dockers are looking at trading 6, 8 and 27 to Suns for 3, 19 and 22. Then offering Cats 22 for Clark.

Also a chance to trade 6 and 8 to Adelaide for 4, 23 and something else and then offering 23 for Clark.

Source? They don't have pick 6 yet, and they're apparently asking for that and another pick for Cerra, which could be pick 25. I'd think the Cerra trade would be higher on their priority list right now than Clark.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Why. There is a clear best 4 this year. Pick 3 (#5) misses that. Go through history and see if you’d trade the player taken at 8 and 10 for the player taken at 5 and 21.

I’d rather be the Suns any day of the week. More margin for error. If it was the 2018 draft with a big 6 then fair enough but that isn’t the case this year and most years for that matter.

Because the DVI points on that deal are basically dead even and you always pay at least a 20 % points premium trading up to the top 5 so gc are getting underpaid by freo.

That deal doesnt also suit gcs needs as they are tight for list spots they are better off to turn 3 into 1 pick this year and one next year rather than 2 lower ones this year. For eg 3 to richmond for 7 and a future 1st+ or for 8 and freos future 1st probably works better for them.

 

[Jackington]

Does anyone remember Darcy MacPherson absolutely towelling us in a preseason game playing through the midfield? Played mainly as a small forward at the Suns, I wonder if we’ll look at him for a mid role.

DMac is a perennial March premier. Looks good in the pre-season and intra-club games every year, fails to translate to AFL form. Don't want him.

 

[Lana]

It’s actually five drafts 2016-2020. That might be right about meaningful variation but most of the criticism levelled at Geelong has been in these recent years where this data clearly shows the concern isn’t valid.

Another thing that comes to mind is that this is the wrong time of year to do this as delistments haven’t finished yet.

What does it look like if you remove the 2019 and 2020 drafts?

Things that aren’t captured in this are the “ghost soldiers” those drafted still on the list who have provided negligible value so far and statistically speaking are unlikely to do so. Our underperforming early picks tend to stick around for half a decade before they move on. They’d be valued at full DVI until they leave rather than fair value.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I cant see gc trading pick 3 (unless they are mad or get offered crazy overs for it) but since they need to dump their late picks (no list spots) and freo have no late picks i could see a deal involving later picks at a guess:

Gc out 22 43 55 58 66 brodie
In 27 + future 2nd and 4th (freo)

Freo can then flip 22 43 66 to the dogs for 17 and pass that to us for clark. Means they still have 6 8 clark and brodie and a couple of picks in the 50s that will come in a bit with bid matching. Something like that might work.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

You forgot that he’s contracted and that he has been offered a 4 year deal…pick 27 blows out to pick 31

I don’t blame the club for asking for a better pick

I dont either. He might not be worth it but a pick in the teens is what we should demand and hold him if we dont get it.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I'd send 34 and Krueger for their future 2nd. If we're getting a pick for Clark we are probably only taking those first 3 selections and rookies.

It will probably end up being a pick between 22-28 which is a nice bump and gives us more picks in a year where we will have more list spots available

I agree id do kreuger and 34 for a mid 20s pick given our lack of leverage. I agree we are probably only using 3-4 picks max so given we have 4 inside 3 rounds and are getting more if clark goes trading up the order to consolidate picks or into futures is needed.

 

[JohnZ]

how much of a hard edge do Christian Salem, Trent Rivers, Bailey Dale or Jason Johannisen have

all four won't let an opponent slip past them without at least trying to lay a tackle.

 

[Jackington]

> While it is expected Cartlon will give new coach Michael Voss the chance to turn around Lochie O’Brien, the Herald Sun reports the No.10 pick from the 2017 draft could be forced out as a delisted free agent.

Could be a good depth player if we lose Clark. Especially considering he would be free as a DFA.

 

[GeelongFTW]

Joel needs to hand over the captaincy if he is to go on.

If he doesn't and wants a record instead then he is not looking out for the team or the club.

Selwood staying on as Captain would be more of a benefit for the incumbent I feel. Anyone that's captain would still be under Selwood's shadow so may as well give him free air the year after.

 

[fpm84]

all four won't let an opponent slip past them without at least trying to lay a tackle.

Clark averaged 2.8 tackles a game this season, more than all four of Salem, Johannisen, Dale and Rivers.

I'm not trying to compare him to those guys as players, they are all very good at what they do. I'm just saying there's often a focus on what Clark, and other young players, are not instead of what their capabilities are. Clark has the skills to be a line-breaking, attacking HBF, a position we need in the team particularly with Tuohy near the end.

 

[catempire]

Another thing that comes to mind is that this is the wrong time of year to do this as delistments haven’t finished yet.

What does it look like if you remove the 2019 and 2020 drafts?

Things that aren’t captured in this are the “ghost soldiers” those drafted still on the list who have provided negligible value so far and statistically speaking are unlikely to do so. Our underperforming early picks tend to stick around for half a decade before they move on. They’d be valued at full DVI until they leave rather than fair value.

Doesn’t directionally change much. I’m interested in looking at a longer time period. Maybe last ten years. Will have a look tonight.

 

[Tackle_happy]

Selwood staying on as Captain would be more of a benefit for the incumbent I feel. Anyone that's captain would still be under Selwood's shadow so may as well give him free air the year after.

Selwood doesn't need the captaincy to be an elder statesmen. A new captain of sufficient character would be their own person and there would be no shadow.

Let Selwood just play without any other distraction if he is to play one more year. Stewart is ready now (top of my list at least).

 

[GeelongFTW]

Clark averaged 2.8 tackles a game this season, more than all four of Salem, Johannisen, Dale and Rivers.

I'm not trying to compare him to those guys as players, they are all very good at what they do. I'm just saying there's often a focus on what Clark, and other young players, are not instead of what their capabilities are. Clark has the skills to be a line-breaking, attacking HBF, a position we need in the team particularly with Tuohy near the end.

Noone's suggesting he needs to be the next max rooke but you're kidding yourself if you don't think Clark needs to harden up. I mean its nothing that cant be fixed up with a preseason in the gym and some game time.

 

[you pick one]

We all seem to be forgetting that clark has his chances at AFL level after a great pre season campaign, and played average football.. He didnt hold his spot or deserve it. He lost it due to poor form. People seem to forget this

There has to be more to it.Explain this
RD 21 v GWS on 66% game time Clark has 18 disposals 5 tackles and is dropped.
A few weeks later against GWS Zuthrie on 80% game time has 7 disposals 3 tackles and is retained.
This is the crap that's grinding my gears with the Cats under this current mob.

 

[Turbocat]

Dockers are looking at trading 6, 8 and 27 to Suns for 3, 19 and 22. Then offering Cats 22 for Clark.

Also a chance to trade 6 and 8 to Adelaide for 4, 23 and something else and then offering 23 for Clark.

Id think we we would do either of those deals. They would have to just absorb the devaluation of Clark due to non play.


Suns move back 3 spots and get another top10 pick. Interesting deal.

 

[BigCat1]

> While it is expected Cartlon will give new coach Michael Voss the chance to turn around Lochie O’Brien, the Herald Sun reports the No.10 pick from the 2017 draft could be forced out as a delisted free agent.

Could be a good depth player if we lose Clark. Especially considering he would be free as a DFA.

Another guy drafted as a small rebounding defender then being made to play wing.

At least Carl has the excuse they have Docherty, Saad, Newman, Williams, Marchbank and SPS playing the loose man in defence role.

Still not sure O’Brien is up to it. If you’re getting cut at Carlton early then its probably all the indication you need. There is the Geel Grammar link.