Rumour GFC 2022 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists PT2

[Shadow89]

If we happen to walk away with Clark we'll get a star.

Almost seems unfathomable that we could get him after winning a flag...still blows my mind given what I thought at the start of last year

 

[Shadow89]

He had the same chance as Tom Atkins Max Holmes Zac Guthrie SDK so i don't buy that argument sorry Tony.
The whole team went through the same 2-3 years.
He didn't do enough for me and for the Club it seems.
Pity we threw away pick 15 on him... Mitch GeorgieBoy from WA would've been a handier pick up in hindsight.
But anyhow i have moved on.
Cheers

This is an interesting insight - as I've considered this one myself too over the last couple of years. What's really fascinating when you consider everything that happened, is that had we drafted Georgiades, we would not have got SDK.

Essentially, Geelong and Port wanted the same two players - SDK and Georgiades. If one was picked, the other would take the other. Given Port had a pick in between our 16 and 19, it meant that they were always going to get one of them. Had we taken Georgiades, we never would've ended up with SDK. Any day of the week, I would give up Pick 16 and Pick 19 for SDK - knowing what we know now.

Essentially in the end, we gave up Coop and 2 late Future 2nd's (as picks of worth) for Ollie, so if you look at it holistically, we've given up Pick 16, Pick 19, 32ish and 38, for SDK and Ollie Henry - over the past 3 years. Personally, I have no issue with that at all, haha.

 

[Sire of Claude]

Thanks Jack. I too think Stephens will turn out a good player but he saw that the Cats have too many similar players competing for finite spots.

However I'm not wedded to Clark: he averages 25 disposal in under-18 football as do dozens of others. I think we fixated on him because initially we thought we had no chance of getting him and he's a Falcon.

Now that we have pick 7/8 I hope Wells et al are having a serious look at the other candidates. But I'd be happy enough to end up with Clark given we never expected to even have the luxury of the choice.

 

[year of the cat]

Sort of draft where I think unless there's an unlikely bolter, you just trust Wells to pick the best option from a very even bunch of players. My preference is to take Clark, but I wouldn't be unhappy with MacKenzie, Tsatas or Phillipou. Even Ginbey has many appealing attributes. I'm now a bit softer on Busslinger but still wouldn't be upset if his name was called. Whoever it is I think we'll pick up a decent type.

 

[CatRiot]

Sort of draft where I think unless there's an unlikely bolter, you just trust Wells to pick the best option from a very even bunch of players. My preference is to take Clark, but I wouldn't be unhappy with MacKenzie, Tsatas or Phillipou. Even Ginbey has many appealing attributes. I'm now a bit softer on Busslinger but still wouldn't be upset if his name was called. Whoever it is I think we'll pick up a decent type.

It will be one of those players you mentioned for sure.

 

[year of the cat]

It will be one of those players you mentioned for sure.

Would be surprised if it isn’t.

 

[Joey JoJo Shabad]

It was definitely worth paying what it cost to bring Jezza to the club.

 

[CatRiot]

Next gen mids at Cats under age 25, by height:

Knevitt 193cm
O'Connor 191cm
Holmes 189cm
Bowes 187cm
Kroeger 185cm
Bruhn 183cm
Willis 183cm
Simpson 183cm
Close 181cm
White 181cm
Parfitt 180cm

*think Miers and Dempsey will be forwards...

If we want some midfield size and Clark is gone, then maybe Phillipou for me.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bowes becomes a midfield bull, if he gets a full run at it.

 

[Pollywaffle]

It's hard to say. I think both will churn out decent careers.

Cooper looked like he could kick on but opportunities were going to be limited with the cats.
I think he will eke out a reasonable AFL career

 

[strauchnyy]

Sort of draft where I think unless there's an unlikely bolter, you just trust Wells to pick the best option from a very even bunch of players. My preference is to take Clark, but I wouldn't be unhappy with MacKenzie, Tsatas or Phillipou. Even Ginbey has many appealing attributes. I'm now a bit softer on Busslinger but still wouldn't be upset if his name was called. Whoever it is I think we'll pick up a decent type.

Agree.

I think the only situation all and sundry are upset (including me) is if we pass on those you mentioned for someone rated in the next tier (hollands, Cowan, weddle, hotton etc.). And knowing wells… I think this is a 30% chance of happening

 

[strauchnyy]

Next gen mids at Cats under age 25, by height:

Knevitt 193cm
O'Connor 191cm
Holmes 189cm
Bowes 187cm
Kroeger 185cm
Bruhn 183cm
Willis 183cm
Simpson 183cm
Close 181cm
White 181cm
Parfitt 180cm

*think Miers and Dempsey will be forwards...

If we want some midfield size and Clark is gone, then maybe Phillipou for me.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bowes becomes a midfield bull, if he gets a full run at it.

Interesting. Issue is not all of those names will make it unfortunately.

As of what we’ve seen to date, only

O’Connor
Holmes
Bowes
Close (although a fwd)
Parfitt
And maybe bruhn

Have shown what it takes to make it as AFL players. The others are imo odds against them for varying reasons be ut injury (Simpson) or whatever.

I still think that our next gen will be:

Clark (assuming we get him)
Holmes
Parfitt
Bowes
Bruhn

I think we need more over the next few drafts

 

[CatRiot]

Interesting. Issue is not all of those names will make it unfortunately.

As of what we’ve seen to date, only

O’Connor
Holmes
Bowes
Close (although a fwd)
Parfitt
And maybe bruhn

Have shown what it takes to make it as AFL players. The others are imo odds against them for varying reasons be ut injury (Simpson) or whatever.

I still think that our next gen will be:

Clark (assuming we get him)
Holmes
Parfitt
Bowes
Bruhn

I think we need more over the next few drafts

I think some of them won't make it either.
Have a feeling Kroeger and Willis will be injury prone types, but have to wait and see...

 

[CatRiot]

I wonder what draft sliders we might go for late in the Draft... Was there any injured high profile players that barely played this year in the U18s?

 

[Turbocat]

He had the same chance as Tom Atkins Max Holmes Zac Guthrie SDK so i don't buy that argument sorry Tony.
The whole team went through the same 2-3 years.
He didn't do enough for me and for the Club it seems.
Pity we threw away pick 15 on him... Mitch GeorgieBoy from WA would've been a handier pick up in hindsight.
But anyhow i have moved on.
Cheers

My opinion is players come players go... Players get picked that one likes others that one are not really enamoured with.

I do think that not all recieve the same treatment or are on the same joureny. Every player is different ...and there is always more than what we see on the field. WE have kept some players for unfathomable reasons at times and others have chopped with the apparent ruthlessness of genghis khan..
I look at Atkins and ask how many games he played at the comparable age? How many roles he played in on field before cracking it in the guts in his late 20's. I look at Zac and praise the clubs patience as it would have been easy to cut him at stages, being under the ball looking like a pull thru ..and sdk his ability to bring a talent matched beautifully with a need in our side.. yet in other years I wonder if he would have been given the same chance and support. He was playing ruck and forward at times in the VFL. Again versatility and huge potential.

I liked CoopS and think he could have got more of a go..but I also can see he lacked some versatility. The role in the side he needed was one keenly sort. Parfitt only just scrapped into the best23.Would he get more chances this yaer? I think Bruhn would be selected before him based on versatility but it would not surprise me if he becomes a good player for the Hawks ina side with more chances.

All the picks we make are done with the best intent as you see them. Some will fail. My bet is we can all find a player we liked that pancaked. It would be interesting for us all to document who we pick at our pick this post draft.. and then in three or 4 years see how we have gone. For example.I think someone like Humpfrey has the potential to make fools of few people.. both ways. Imagine Ess picking him at 4 and he fails ..imagine him getting thru to bulldogs and he is Naughton again? Who knows... but I think I can see why its going to be hard to get away from from selecting Clark.Does he have the most obvious upside? Not sure... but he is one of the least likely to fail imo. At worst he is an Atkins but i suspect he will be something more.

 

[Shadow89]

Interesting. Issue is not all of those names will make it unfortunately.

As of what we’ve seen to date, only

O’Connor
Holmes
Bowes
Close (although a fwd)
Parfitt
And maybe bruhn

Have shown what it takes to make it as AFL players. The others are imo odds against them for varying reasons be ut injury (Simpson) or whatever.

I still think that our next gen will be:

Clark (assuming we get him)
Holmes
Parfitt
Bowes
Bruhn

I think we need more over the next few drafts

It's interesting, as I honestly think if we select Clark, then we'll be absolutely stacked for the next 3-4 years.

That midfield listed above is just next gen. What has to be considered though, is that while that group is coming through, we still have the below who'll still be here until 2025 or 2024 at the earliest:

Atkins - 28
C. Guthrie - 30
Blicavs - 31
Danger - 32
Menegola - 30

Now Menegola might get forced out/become more injury prone, but he could also bounce back too. That means barring Danger and maybe Menegola, the other 3 guys are still first choice mids in 2025. Meaning, if we select any more top tier mids on top of Bruhn, Holmes, Bowes and Clark, then we're in danger of losing them due to lack of opportunity.

Also, I think Willis will make it, as he's gotten past his early injuries and has some real flashes of brilliance last year- and has all the tools to be a gun. Knevitt has a lot of upside too, as a tall winger or as a KPP in the future, so I'm not writing either of those off yet. Kroeger I think is too injury prone, and Whyte is too similar to someone like Clark with less polish, so don't think he'll make it either.

Essentially though, if we get Clark, this could be our Best 23 side in 2025 (Danger and Menegola gone and Ratugolea staying) - based on our list right now, not including anyone who'll be likely retired, and not including any other 2022 draftees/future trade/draft/FA's:

B: Bews, SDK, J. Henry
HB: Stewart, Kolo, Zuthrie
C: Holmes, Blics, Bowes
FO: Conway, C. Guthrie, T. Atkins
HF: O. Henry, S. Neale, Close
F: Miers, J. Cameron, Stengle
INT: Ratugolea, Bruhn, O'Connor, Parfitt, Clark

EMG: Simpson, Knevitt, Willis, Dempsey



No longer on list in 2025 who is currently on list:

Danger, Hawkins, Rohan, Ceglar, Stanley, Tuohy, Duncan, I. Smith, Menegola

*****************

It's pretty damn stacked to be honest, and that's 3 years down the track. In the next 2 years, it'll be rotation through resting that gives these guys opportunity. I think in this time we'll heavily target KPP's through draft/trade/FA, and maybe look at getting more pace off half back. Besides that, we're looking very good with depth in a lot of areas after fielding the oldest side to win a flag in the history of the game - so it's quite remarkable just how good the list shape is in right now - especially given what we'll be losing over the next 2 or so years.

 

[Turbocat]

Next gen mids at Cats under age 25, by height:

Knevitt 193cm
O'Connor 191cm
Holmes 189cm
Bowes 187cm
Kroeger 185cm
Bruhn 183cm
Willis 183cm
Simpson 183cm
Close 181cm
White 181cm
Parfitt 180cm

*think Miers and Dempsey will be forwards...

If we want some midfield size and Clark is gone, then maybe Phillipou for me.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bowes becomes a midfield bull, if he gets a full run at it.

Obviously some on that list will fail but the list you have noted sort of say why have concerns over picking someone like Phil.

To pick him one best be very sure you will find a spot in you best 22 reasonably quickly imo, probably in front of the list group because he could easily be another example of players who exercise their choice in a draft period. North looked down the barrel of choosing anyone and picked who they thought was the best kid. We have GWS recruiting staff saying that the draft is different for them than other clubs, and there are some players hey just can not pick.

I guess from their perspective they feel different..but id say the glue of being picked to most clubs now is moving into the realms of a "post it". Pick Phil and he doesn't feel wanted as he usually is or used or what ever ..would it surprise anyone if he chose the same path that we have benefited by this year? Port and Crows have shown they are quite happy to recieve those wanting to come back. Huge talent and kid full of confidence. Almost sounds like Jordan Clark.

If we draft any kid and they are developed in the VFL for two years , perhaps play a game or two ..like SDek did but do not sign a contract... and come 2024 they say they wish to move ...what do we get? Uncontracted my bet is a late R1 at best. The list has to be a reason you need to be certain that who ever we pick jumps most of not all of them.

 

[Vdubs]

I think some of them won't make it either.
Have a feeling Kroeger and Willis will be injury prone types, but have to wait and see...

Kroeger already has been riddled with injuries; if we ever see him fit, he'll be a ripper.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Kroeger already has been riddled with injuries; if we ever see him fit, he'll be a ripper.

I think he has huge potential.

 

[Turbocat]

I wonder what draft sliders we might go for late in the Draft... Was there any injured high profile players that barely played this year in the U18s?

Considering needs ...I think there are som talls that might be available that under performed this year. A few have been mentioned and some other hardly much at all. Trying to sort the wheat and chaff is difficult. I think Brayden George might have been they type we normally would have picked. Rated much earlier but had dropped due to injury. We have no immediate need..we could just stack pile him and say just take it easy and see you in 2024...but he is probable R1/early r2

The guy who has slid in a huge way that I originally liked is Northam. He has gone from R1 to nothing. He could be there at our last pick. Not a ruck at his height so where doe he play. Maybe they should have settled him in a KP role

 

[Turbocat]

Kroeger already has been riddled with injuries; if we ever see him fit, he'll be a ripper.

Just think a few of these guys end being unlucky or not able to sustain it at the higher level. Plenty on here like Willis too. One only wishes that all get a fair shake.. it must be frustraiting knowing you are talented enough but you body lets you down. We have seen before haven't we. Would Lynch be the classic example?

 

[Turbocat]

Sort of draft where I think unless there's an unlikely bolter, you just trust Wells to pick the best option from a very even bunch of players. My preference is to take Clark, but I wouldn't be unhappy with MacKenzie, Tsatas or Phillipou. Even Ginbey has many appealing attributes. I'm now a bit softer on Busslinger but still wouldn't be upset if his name was called. Whoever it is I think we'll pick up a decent type.

It hard to see many other names. Humpfrey maybe. Its who goes to Ess, Gold Coast and Haw. that define its for us.

One would think Ess want a bigger body mid. Gold Coast probably look at who they have ..and who will stay. Haw rebuilding with a multi year timeline with the competitive Mitchell in charge.. who do they take

Id like to have Buss on our list but I cant see him being picked before the others. Im not certain Wc would pick him as their first WA player. I think Ginbey and Allen go first. It will make it a captivating few minutes if Clark is already gone at our pick.

 

[D BRIDGE]

For the people rating Kroeger... Can you please give some insight on why?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

For the people rating Kroeger... Can you please give some insight on why?

He's a really good overhead mark, can run and has an elite kick. He has the tools to be a good mid at this level. Time will tell whether he makes it or not.

Getting on the park should be his first priority.

 

[Drunkcat]

He's a really good overhead mark, can run and has an elite kick. He has the tools to be a good mid at this level. Time will tell whether he makes it or not.

Getting on the park should be his first priority.

He looked a smooth mover in his only half game, but he broke his hand but had no collision impact to get it, I thought he mite be made of chocolate.

 

[PzBlinky]

It's interesting, as I honestly think if we select Clark, then we'll be absolutely stacked for the next 3-4 years.

That midfield listed above is just next gen. What has to be considered though, is that while that group is coming through, we still have the below who'll still be here until 2025 or 2024 at the earliest:

Atkins - 28
C. Guthrie - 30
Blicavs - 31
Danger - 32
Menegola - 30

Now Menegola might get forced out/become more injury prone, but he could also bounce back too. That means barring Danger and maybe Menegola, the other 3 guys are still first choice mids in 2025. Meaning, if we select any more top tier mids on top of Bruhn, Holmes, Bowes and Clark, then we're in danger of losing them due to lack of opportunity.

Also, I think Willis will make it, as he's gotten past his early injuries and has some real flashes of brilliance last year- and has all the tools to be a gun. Knevitt has a lot of upside too, as a tall winger or as a KPP in the future, so I'm not writing either of those off yet. Kroeger I think is too injury prone, and Whyte is too similar to someone like Clark with less polish, so don't think he'll make it either.

Essentially though, if we get Clark, this could be our Best 23 side in 2025 (Danger and Menegola gone and Ratugolea staying) - based on our list right now, not including anyone who'll be likely retired, and not including any other 2022 draftees/future trade/draft/FA's:

B: Bews, SDK, J. Henry
HB: Stewart, Kolo, Zuthrie
C: Holmes, Blics, Bowes
FO: Conway, C. Guthrie, T. Atkins
HF: O. Henry, S. Neale, Close
F: Miers, J. Cameron, Stengle
INT: Ratugolea, Bruhn, O'Connor, Parfitt, Clark

EMG: Simpson, Knevitt, Willis, Dempsey



No longer on list in 2025 who is currently on list:

Danger, Hawkins, Rohan, Ceglar, Stanley, Tuohy, Duncan, I. Smith, Menegola

*****************

It's pretty damn stacked to be honest, and that's 3 years down the track. In the next 2 years, it'll be rotation through resting that gives these guys opportunity. I think in this time we'll heavily target KPP's through draft/trade/FA, and maybe look at getting more pace off half back. Besides that, we're looking very good with depth in a lot of areas after fielding the oldest side to win a flag in the history of the game - so it's quite remarkable just how good the list shape is in right now - especially given what we'll be losing over the next 2 or so years.

Maybe we could call this situation "The Carazzo Conundrum", in honour of one of the Blues better mids for the past 15 or so years who was forced out of the Cats because of an even more stacked midfield?