Good game tonight...

[Jonas]

Why didnt muston play?

 

[MHDKA]

It’s a stretch, but at a guess playing games at Aurora = home ground advantage = more likely of getting wins = on field success = finals = premierships = new supporters and members

As I've said before, I'm not doubting the contract has the potential to reduce the growth of the Hawthorn brand in Melbourne, but to date there have no signs of a significant contraction in Hawk support or membership in Melbourne or abroad. In fact, there is evidence that our membership and support base is actually growing regardless of the deal.

Yes it may be growing but it sounds to me if you were honest you would admit that you believe without the deal membership would most likely be higher than what it will be with it.

 

[Spook]

On this occasion it would be difficult for anyone to say you are negative.

However I would say the reason we lost was the backline. Poor defensively with little attacking run.

AC should have moved Hodge along the HB line in the last part of the 4th to create and win as Carlton's midfield were in control.

It was only Inexperiance in the backline, but now the kids have 1 more ghame experiance so it was worth it for a NAB cup game... add back in Croad, Smith and Jacobs it will resolve that problem come the real season

 

[Pessimistic]

Didn't fitroy try a few tassie games in the 90's ? One in particular springs to mind...

 

[Pessimistic]

I am sure there weren't to many 100 years olds at the game - although you might be right about the starved carlton supporters.

Though all you are doing is suggesting possible reasons why there were more carlton supporters - it doesn't explain why they outnumbered hawk supportors.

Nor does it change the fact that I thought it was surprising as did a number of members of the media.

I just shows how much the media know - yet Robert Walls is supposed to be some kind of authority on growing the game in the gold coast etc !

 

[hawker11]

Didn't fitroy try a few tassie games in the 90's ? One in particular springs to mind...

Yes they did - and look where they are now

But seriously Fitzroy weren't given 15 mil' either... Though a Carlton supporter on this thread asked how we supporters felt about playing games in tassie - it is off the topic....Lets not hijack it to another 'tassie hawks' vs 'hawthorn hawks' thread.

 

[Pessimistic]

Yes they did - and look where they are now

But seriously Fitzroy weren't given 15 mil' either... Though a Carlton supporter on this thread asked how we supporters felt about playing games in tassie - it is off the topic....Lets not hijack it to another 'tassie hawks' vs 'hawthorn hawks' thread.

I was meaning the 31 (was it) goal win to hawthorn !

 

[Hawkk]

Yes it may be growing but it sounds to me if you were honest you would admit that you believe without the deal membership would most likely be higher than what it will be with it.

It probably would be, having said that we've really had no excuse - given our support, for the low member totals over the past few years. Ultimately, the real question we should be debating is whether or not the expected decline in membership revenue offsets the Tasmanian deal.

 

[hawker11]

It probably would be, having said that we've really had no excuse - given our support, for the low member totals over the past few years. Ultimately, the real question we should be debating is whether or not the expected decline in membership revenue offsets the Tasmanian deal.

This would mean our current middle band Victorian supporter base to fall to a low band Vic supporter base? I don't like the idea of that - if it meant 3 mil a year or 30 mil a year. Supporters get a raw deal out of this - and the club should have been making decisions with this in mind. It was done without communication or thought for its members who will suffer this year for that very reason.

 

[Hawkk]

This would mean our current middle band Victorian supporter base to fall to a low band Vic supporter base? I don't like the idea of that - if it meant 3 mil a year or 30 mil a year. Supporters get a raw deal out of this - and the club should have been making decisions with this in mind. It was done without communication or thought for its members who will suffer this year for that very reason.

True, but the fact that our membership is up on past years - to date anyway, indicates that the drop from middle band to low band probably won't eventuate. If we can grow on our middle band, into potentially a large band in the long run, or at least hold our membership constant, would that be a win for the club?

 

[Blues_Man]

I don't think I said that Xyakks.

But we have been playing there for a number of years now and have just made a 5 year commitment to tasmania. We have also had a strong connection with tasmania over a number of years having players like the hudsons & pritchard in our team.

As a result it is generally considered the Hawks get good support in tasmania. - this is one of the reasons why we got the sponsorship agreement with Tasmanian Government.

I also always notice when we play in tasmania we get very good crowd support (usually when the opposition scores you don't here anything) and considering we were playing the blues who I don't think have ever played there the support they got actually was surprising.

I also was not the only one that thought this - it was also stated by the Ch10 commentators last night and they were just talking about it before on SEN.

I was at the game and the Blues supporters would have out numbered the Hawks supporters 3-1...just because your board decides to play a few games in Tassie does not equate to you having supporter numbers greater than a side like Carlton . most of the Hawks support here comes from young teens or school kids .

 

[hawker11]

True, but the fact that our membership is up on past years - to date anyway, indicates that the drop from middle band to low band probably won't eventuate. If we can grow on our middle band, into potentially a large band in the long run, or at least hold our membership constant, would that be a win for the club?

Can you prove that the Victorian membership level is up on previous years? Also keep in mind that our on-field fortunes have improved - it is when we are back to cellar-dwellers (which i hope never happens again! ) that I fear Hawthorn will be at threat.

 

[xyakks]

I am sure there weren't to many 100 years olds at the game - although you might be right about the starved carlton supporters.

If you go back and read the post again, carefully, you'll find that I wasn't saying anything about 100 year old Carlton supporters. I was explaining that there's a 100 year tradition of people in Tasmania supporting Carlton.

Carlton are perhaps the 2nd or 3rd most popular team within Tasmania.

Though all you are doing is suggesting possible reasons why there were more carlton supporters - it doesn't explain why they outnumbered hawk supportors.

Because there are more Carlton supporters in Tasmania than Hawthorn supporters? Honestly, it's not that hard of a concept to understand, just because Hawthorn have been playing a couple of games in Tasmania for the last 4 years doesn't mean Tasmanians have discarded the team that they have supported for their entire lives to follow Hawthorn.

I'll try to put it in a way you can understand better. Imagine you're support Hawthorn and now imagine you live in say the Northern Territory where no AFL team ever plays. Imagine you're about 20 years or older. Now imagine another club starting to play the occasional game where you live for a bit of extra money, lets say Carlton. Because Carlton are the only team playing there are you going to stop supporting Hawthorn and become a mad keen Blues man? I think not.

Nor does it change the fact that I thought it was surprising as did a number of members of the media.

I think it's surprising that so many people found it surprising. The Journos seem to have no idea about this topic, their opinion is therefore worth nothing, as per usual.

 

[xyakks]

I was at the game and the Blues supporters would have out numbered the Hawks supporters 3-1...just because your board decides to play a few games in Tassie does not equate to you having supporter numbers greater than a side like Carlton . most of the Hawks support here comes from young teens or school kids .

Most Hawthorn fans here are now entering their 20's. Take me for example, born in '86. In my age group Hawthorn is probably the second most popular team after Essendon.

Since Hawthorn started playing a few games down here I've noticed that there's been a slight increase in young Hawk supporter, mostly they're all under 10 years of age.

I have a younger brother who is 13, he tells me that he doesn't even know a person his age who supports the club.

These things go in cycles, if Hawthorn have a succesful period then they will gain an increased number of young supporters.

 

[Hawkk]

Can you prove that the Victorian membership level is up on previous years?

Our membership is around 2-2,500 up on this time last year - which would give us a membership of 32,000 assuming everything remains constant. I'd say - even allowing for a small jump in Tasmanian memberships, our Victorian membership has also jumped. Of course this doesn't take into account our potential membership if we played all 11 home games in Melbourne, which may or may not have been higher without the Tasmanian deal.

Its all guess work until we get the final figures at the end of the year - probably then we will have a better understanding as to the effect the agreement has had on our Victorian membership, but until then we can only go by the total figures and not the break down per state.

 

[MHDKA]

Carlton are perhaps the 2nd or 3rd most popular team within Tasmania.

Because there are more Carlton supporters in Tasmania than Hawthorn supporters? Honestly, it's not that hard of a concept to understand, just because Hawthorn have been playing a couple of games in Tasmania for the last 4 years doesn't mean Tasmanians have discarded the team that they have supported for their entire lives to follow Hawthorn.

I'll try to put it in a way you can understand better. Imagine you're support Hawthorn and now imagine you live in say the Northern Territory where no AFL team ever plays. Imagine you're about 20 years or older. Now imagine another club starting to play the occasional game where you live for a bit of extra money, lets say Carlton. Because Carlton are the only team playing there are you going to stop supporting Hawthorn and become a mad keen Blues man? I think not.

I think it's surprising that so many people found it surprising. The Journos seem to have no idea about this topic, their opinion is therefore worth nothing, as per usual.

Despite what you say the hawks have always had very good support in tasmania - in my opinion better than carlton & perhaps that is why a number of commentators and also I found it surprising.

PS: you don't have to try to be a smart arse just because I disagree with you.

At the end of the day I have my opinion, you have yours.

I found it surprising - you are not surprised at all.

 

[xyakks]

Despite what you say the hawks have always had very good support in tasmania - in my opinion better than carlton & perhaps that is why a number of commentators and also I found it surprising.

Okay, again we've gone back off the road of fact and onto the road of fiction. Hawthorn does not, I repeat, does not, have more support in Tasmania than Carlton.

Yes Hawthorn has good support in this state, but not as much support as Essendon, Carlton or Richmond or Collingwood.


What exactly are you basing the line

the hawks have always had very good support in tasmania - in my opinion better than carlton

on? Is it just a gut feeling?

At the end of the day I have my opinion, you have yours.

At the end of the day I guess it's fair that you can have any opinion you like. You're more than welcome to come to Tasmania and tell everyone that Hawthorn is more popular here than Carlton. You're also welcome to goto Perth and tell anyone who'll listen that Hawthorn are more popular than West Coast and Fremantle in WA.

 

[MHDKA]

Okay, again we've gone back off the road of fact and onto the road of fiction. Hawthorn does not, I repeat, does not, have more support in Tasmania than Carlton.

Yes Hawthorn has good support in this state, but not as much support as Essendon, Carlton or Richmond or Collingwood.


What exactly are you basing the line on? Is it just a gut feeling?


At the end of the day I guess it's fair that you can have any opinion you like. You're more than welcome to come to Tasmania and tell everyone that Hawthorn is more popular here than Carlton. You're also welcome to goto Perth and tell anyone who'll listen that Hawthorn are more popular than West Coast and Fremantle in WA.

Are you going to tell me what my opinion is? Do I have to define to you what an opinion is? And aren't I allowed to have an opinion?

As I have said I found it surprising, you don't - but as I have also stated that it was not only my opinion that it was surprising - it was also held by others.

Now as far as the level of support you quote for other teams what do you base this on - I remember the richmond game and we had far more support than them - this was the first game I can rem,eber where we had less support than the opposition.

Of course I may be wrong.

Do you base your opinion on a recent survey of AFL support in tasmania of those that go to games - or is it your gut feeling or are you actually an expert who knows the afl demographics for the whole of tasmania?

And as far as your sarcasm about my opinion goes, as I have stated it was my opinion from the start - as a result I really find it hard to understand your vindictiveness - unless you have some other agenda against me apart from the fact you don't agree with my opinion on crowd response at a preseason game in tasmania.

 

[xyakks]

Are you going to tell me what my opinion is? Do I have to define to you what an opinion is? And aren't I allowed to have an opinion?

Is there something wrong with basing your opinions on fact?

As I have said I found it surprising, you don't - but as I have also stated that it was not only my opinion that it was surprising - it was also held by others.

It's notable that of all the others that found this surprising, none are actually from Tasmania, have lived in Tasmania or have viseted Tasmania for any extended period of time. Dare I say, self proclaimed experts on a place they know nothing about?

Now as far as the level of support you quote for other teams what do you base this on - I remember the richmond game and we had far more support than them - this was the first game I can rem,eber where we had less support than the opposition.

Sorry, but Richmond clearly had more support at that game. I was there with my girlfriend (Richmond supporter) her father (Richmond supporter) and her brother (Richmond supporter) and the only Hawthorn dominant area at the ground that day was near the Hawthorn cheers squad.

The reason perhaps you think it was a Hawthorn dominant crowd is because we flogged 'em. The Richmond supporters were pretty quiet after half time, not much to cheer about.

Of course I may be wrong.

Anyone can be wrong about anything. It's no big deal.

Do you base your opinion on a recent survey of AFL support in tasmania of those that go to games - or is it your gut feeling or are you actually an expert who knows the afl demographics for the whole of tasmania?

What do you base yours on? I take it you don't live here?

The most recent census showed Essendon to be the most supported club in Tasmania. I also base my claims on my 21 years of experience living in the state. the first 15 years on the Northern side and the next 6 on the Southern Side.

Any supporter of any club is just as mathematically likely to attend their clubs game as any other supporter. So based on Essendon having the biggets support in the state they would mathematically have the most support at a game that featured Essendon.

And as far as your sarcasm about my opinion goes, as I have stated it was my opinion from the start - as a result I really find it hard to understand your vindictiveness

Maybe I'm just annoyed that someone could make such outlandish claims about a place they know nothing about? If I was to claim that Baseball was the most popular sport in your home state (another outlandish claim) I would expect some people to be annoyed.

- unless you have some other agenda against me apart from the fact you don't agree with my opinion on crowd response at a preseason game in tasmania.

I have no agenda with you, other than against some poorly formed ideas about my home that you like to say are fact.

No matter how much I would love to claim it, Hawthorn are not the most popular side in this state, nor are they more popular than Carlton.

 

[Hawkk]

The club does get pretty good support down here, nowhere as much as the bigger clubs, like Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond or Carlton, but after those 4 Hawthorn would be the next most supported club.

So its basically a mini Victoria then?

 

[xyakks]

So its basically a mini Victoria then?

Pretty much, afterall it's only 50 minutes away.

 

[xyakks]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303421

Significantly, more of them supported Carlton than Hawthorn. The Hawks, who are trying to identify themselves as the team of Tasmania, "owning" the state, as a couple of their administrators have crassly put it, were roundly booed before the game.

This rings true, even too me a Hawthorn supporter. If Hawthorn or any of its supporters think they own Tasmanian football fans they have another think coming. (and yes "another think coming" is the proper term)

 

[Hawkamania!]

You cannot expect a team to take control of Tasmania overnight. Give the Hawks several years running clinics and being involved with community events. As the years go by, more kids will support the Hawks. Eventually they will grow up and hopefully become members.

This is a long term strategy for our club (just like the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne). We just need some patience.

 

[Hawkk]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303421

Significantly, more of them supported Carlton than Hawthorn. The Hawks, who are trying to identify themselves as the team of Tasmania, "owning" the state, as a couple of their administrators have crassly put it, were roundly booed before the game.

Wrong. They were saying boo-URNS, boo-URNS

 

[MHDKA]

Is there something wrong with basing your opinions on fact?

An opinion is based on a judgement on a range of information including facts - the thing is though it is subjective.

When someone expresses an opinion that is what they are doing - making a judgement - not stating a fact.

It's notable that of all the others that found this surprising, none are actually from Tasmania, have lived in Tasmania or have viseted Tasmania for any extended period of time. Dare I say, self proclaimed experts on a place they know nothing about?

And what do you base that on - do you know that for sure? Or is that just your opinion.

In my case I have visited tasmania probably at least 70 times have had my brother live in the state for 20 years - for much of this time he worked for ANL and I used to go down once a month- I also had the state as a client base for over 10 years and travelled down regularily. In addition I been going on regular holidays (at least once a year) to the state with my wife and family for well over 10 years - staying for over a week at a time.

Over this time I have made many friends who live in tasmania & even have some relatives that live there.
I started going down there around 20 years before you were born!

As such I do have some understanding about the feelings of the state in regards to afl.

BTW I never said I was an expert like you - I always voiced my view as an opinion.

Sorry, but Richmond clearly had more support at that game. I was there with my girlfriend (Richmond supporter) her father (Richmond supporter) and her brother (Richmond supporter) and the only Hawthorn dominant area at the ground that day was near the Hawthorn cheers squad.

The reason perhaps you think it was a Hawthorn dominant crowd is because we flogged 'em. The Richmond supporters were pretty quiet after half time, not much to cheer about.


Anyone can be wrong about anything. It's no big deal.

Then why are you carrying on so much because you disagree with my opinion?

You even say it is outlandish!

What do you base yours on? I take it you don't live here?

See above

The most recent census showed Essendon to be the most supported club in Tasmania. I also base my claims on my 21 years of experience living in the state. the first 15 years on the Northern side and the next 6 on the Southern Side.

What census? Where is it? When was it done?

Where are you facts you quote to back up your opinion?

And just living in a state the size of tasmania and being 20 yrs old does not make you an expert in afl demographics - all it does is allow you to also have an opinion.

Maybe I'm just annoyed that someone could make such outlandish claims about a place they know nothing about? If I was to claim that Baseball was the most popular sport in your home state (another outlandish claim) I would expect some people to be annoyed.

It is your response is outlandish to me stating an opinion.

And how outlandish can it be if others also shared this opinion - there is even a thread relating to it on another forum - interestingly no one there has been attacked for being surprised about the blues crowd support last saturday.

I hope you don't carry on like this when other people voice an opinion you don't agree with.

I have no agenda with you, other than against some poorly formed ideas about my home that you like to say are fact.

Ridiculous comment - I always expressed my view as my opinion.

This is actually unlike you, once again where are your facts?

I will be happy to say my opinion was incorrect if you can produce them.