Goodwin and Edwards

[threefa9]

Two club legends reportedly doing some very good stuff at opposition clubs (Ess and Port respectively), can we piss off Camporeale and someone else and bring these boys back? Would they want to come back? Or do they feel their coaching career is better served away from the Crows? Having Goodwin back would be my priority but both these players forged brilliant careers on the back of football knowledge, nous and hard work rather than relying on talent.

 

[Glenno23]

inb4boysclub

 

[TheMelbourneCrow]

Goodwin can come back when we need a new senior coach, other than that no.
Also, bicks should go away for a while, staying at afc is not helping him or us.

 

[Vader]

Both are doing the smart thing - and what's best for their careers.

I'd be extremely wary of bringing Goodwin back until ASADA announces the results of their investigation into the Bombers. From what I've read, most of the coaching staff (with Hird as ringleader, Goodwin not far behind) were in it up to their eyeballs and could be looking at very lengthy bans. Most people here are rightly peeved that Adelaide have been penalised for Melbourne's tanking, by losing Bailey for 3 months. Imagine the uproar if we were to bring Goodwin back into the fold, only to be told that he'll be banned for 2-years due to the Essendon doping scandal!

As for Edwards.. I'm neither here nor there regarding his recruitment. Personally, I'd prefer to see the club go outside the former playing group in order to bring in fresh ideas - rather than recycling the same ideas from players who have been in the same system for around 20 years.

Personally, I don't think that Camporeale is the problem, though he could be the collateral damage. I think we need a forward coach who actually knows something about being a forward. That would release Bickley, who could then move to the midfield coaching area, leaving Camporeale out of a job.

I don't pretend to know what the source of the problem is, but I doubt it lies with any of the assistant coaches. That's not to say that they're the best they could be (I'd happily see Clarke given his marching orders) - but I think the problem lies with the direction that Sando has been giving them. My gut feel is that Sando inherited an ultra-fit squad and placed too much focus on the wrestling and weight lifting/strength aspects of the game, while allowing the players' fitness to atrophy. 18 months down the road and the players have lost that fitness edge that they had when Craig departed the scene. I suspect there are other issues to be addressed as well - but the lack of fitness has to be close to the top of the pile.

 

[AFC3000]

Having Goodwin back would be great, seems to know how to get the best out of others however, I think let the whole Essendon thing play out before Goodwin is looked at again, would want a coach who is able to coach and not taking the fall for their problems.

 

[Damp Squarie]

If Goodys not drug implicated ...Id have him back... if he is, Id have him back after his suspension as he's been there done that (albeit in a couple of years)at a Prictorian club.

 

[Vader]

Having Goodwin back would be great, seems to know how to get the best out of others however, I think let the whole Essendon thing play out before Goodwin is looked at again, would want a coach who is able to coach and not taking the fall for their problems.

I don't know about "taking the fall".. from what I've read he was in it up to his eyeballs. If he's banned, then it could be a very very long ban - and it will be thoroughly deserved, as a result of his own decisions & actions. He won't be anybody's fall guy.

 

[FR0GGY]

I don't know about "taking the fall".. from what I've read he was in it up to his eyeballs. If he's banned, then it could be a very very long ban - and it will be thoroughly deserved, as a result of his own decisions & actions. He won't be anybody's fall guy.

It would be up our alley to hire him and then for him to serve his suspension while hes employed by us.

 

[AFC3000]

I don't know about "taking the fall".. from what I've read he was in it up to his eyeballs. If he's banned, then it could be a very very long ban - and it will be thoroughly deserved, as a result of his own decisions & actions. He won't be anybody's fall guy.

Agree with this, probably "the fall" is the wrong term. I meant the way its going it sounds like theirs a push for the players to get off.

 

[Vader]

Agree with this, I meant the way its going it sounds like theirs a push for the players to get off.

I would be very surprised if the players get off. They may get a reduced sentence, partly because it was clearly instigated by the club & coaching staff, partly because they're cooperating fully with the investigation. They won't get off scot free. I suspect they'll get 6-month sentences, rather than the full 2-years. That still leaves Essendon unable to field a team for a full season.

The coaches on the other hand are probably looking at 2-year bans as a minimum.

** It's interesting comparing the way Essendon & Cronulla are handling the investigations. Cronulla have basically refused to participate and will probably lose their team for 2-years, while Essendon will probably only lose theirs for 6-months.

 

[xchadders]

funny, we hate the 'boys club' mentality we have, but always want legends to come back.
i'd prefer them to gain experience at a number of clubs, then i'd be more happy for them to come work with us.

 

[xchadders]

They won't get off scot free. I suspect they'll get 6-month sentences, rather than the full 2-years. That still leaves Essendon unable to field a team for a full season.

last i heard (and that was a while ago) was that the 6 months could be served in the off-season and thus have no impact during the regular season. that would be cheating the system if you ask me, but i dont make the rules.

 

[Bacon8]

last i heard (and that was a while ago) was that the 6 months could be served in the off-season and thus have no impact during the regular season. that would be cheating the system if you ask me, but i dont make the rules.

I'm sure I've read that WADA don't allow bans to be served outside competition.

 

[mattymac]

I would be very surprised if the players get off. They may get a reduced sentence, partly because it was clearly instigated by the club & coaching staff, partly because they're cooperating fully with the investigation. They won't get off scot free. I suspect they'll get 6-month sentences, rather than the full 2-years. That still leaves Essendon unable to field a team for a full season.

The coaches on the other hand are probably looking at 2-year bans as a minimum.

** It's interesting comparing the way Essendon & Cronulla are handling the investigations. Cronulla have basically refused to participate and will probably lose their team for 2-years, while Essendon will probably only lose theirs for 6-months.

As in the team being suspended? Can't see it. Melbourne darling club, will basically get away with it much like Melbourne did re match fixing.

 

[Untouchables22]

As in the team being suspended? Can't see it. Melbourne darling club, will basically get away with it much like Melbourne did re match fixing.

This is what I think will happen too, and it makes me furious. This is by far and away a worse action than anything we did. They'll punish the head honchoes, most have which have walked anyway, and leave the messiah and the players unscathed.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Why hasn't anyone stated the obvious as to why Edwards wouldn't come into the current set-up......

 

[rayven]

** It's interesting comparing the way Essendon & Cronulla are handling the investigations. Cronulla have basically refused to participate and will probably lose their team for 2-years, while Essendon will probably only lose theirs for 6-months.

Well the coaching staff and club from what i've read are near on denying any wrong doing which would mean that no leniency will be granted if they get sentenced. The players?well if they're not cooperating with the investigation and are found guilty, you can't expect any leniency either.

If anyones serious about being anti doping, any coach caught with his/her pants down shouldn't be allowed to coach again.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

For me, we need to get Nathan Bassett to our club...
He is exactly the kind of character we need, someone willing to ruffle feathers and win at all costs...
Goodwin and Edwards to me are just more of the same...

 

[AFC3000]

To me co-operating would of been the players at the start/middle of last year coming forward and saying we've been given substances we weren't sure of and please look into it. Not answering questions now that they have been caught. But that's just me.

Back to the topic, would Edwards come back? From the outside it looks like the club took a team McLeod position on their issue and the way he left wasn't great, did he work things out with the club, obviously McLeod still does a lot of work with the club but apart from that I would think theirs enough turn over and time gone past that it wouldn't effect the players if he had a coaching role.

I really tried not to pay much attention to the whole thing so I can't remember the details.

 

[rayven]

To me co-operating would of been the players at the start/middle of last year coming forward and saying we've been given substances we weren't sure of and please look into it. Not answering questions now that they have been caught. But that's just me.

How about we put ourselfs in Goodwins shoes. He gets offered a good paying job at a successful club learning his craft from some legends (he has said he wants to senior coach), including at that time the best coach in the league (thompson)
He gets there in a strange city away from his support structures and hypothetically finds they're doping. What does he do?

Turn a blind eye and get on with the job hoping they never get found out?(He played in a sporting culture of not ratting on your mates)
Does he walk away and most likely get ostricised?
Does he make a report and ruin his reputation for good?

That's of course is taking for granted he felt whatever ever went on was wrong.

 

[mattymac]

For me, we need to get Nathan Bassett to our club...
He is exactly the kind of character we need, someone willing to ruffle feathers and win at all costs...
Goodwin and Edwards to me are just more of the same...

Bassett would be a great get

 

[Vader]

As in the team being suspended? Can't see it. Melbourne darling club, will basically get away with it much like Melbourne did re match fixing.

As in all the players who took the illegal drugs (noting that not all the drugs they took were illegal - but several of them appear to have been). Best estimate is that around 30 players are likely to be wiped out. Not the whole team.. but close enough to it as makes no difference.

Oh.. and WADA can allow sentences to be served outside of competition. The cyclists who were given 6 month suspensions after confessing and giving evidence against Lance Armstrong were allowed to serve their suspensions during cycling's off-season. That said, I doubt they would allow it in these circumstances.

Note that it is ASADA who will be handing down the penalties. Vlad won't have any say in the matter - hence the AFL's vested interests are largely irrelevant when it comes to Essendon's penalties.

 

[mattymac]

As in all the players who took the illegal drugs (noting that not all the drugs they took were illegal - but several of them appear to have been). Best estimate is that around 30 players are likely to be wiped out. Not the whole team.. but close enough to it as makes no difference.

This sounds like what should happen, but I have plenty faith that the AFL is corrupt enough that it won't.

Oh.. and WADA can allow sentences to be served outside of competition. The cyclists who were given 6 month suspensions after confessing and giving evidence against Lance Armstrong were allowed to serve their suspensions during cycling's off-season. That said, I doubt they would allow it in these circumstances.

That would be a total farce. So its probably likely.

 

[Vader]

The cyclists were in a very special set of circumstances. They were rewarded for giving testimony against the primary target of the investigation. I can see the Bombers' players being given 6-month vacations instead of 2-years. I can't see them being allowed to take those vacations during the off-season.

 

[AFC3000]

How about we put ourselfs in Goodwins shoes. He gets offered a good paying job at a successful club learning his craft from some legends (he has said he wants to senior coach), including at that time the best coach in the league (thompson)
He gets there in a strange city away from his support structures and hypothetically finds they're doping. What does he do?

Turn a blind eye and get on with the job hoping they never get found out?(He played in a sporting culture of not ratting on your mates)
Does he walk away and most likely get ostricised?
Does he make a report and ruin his reputation for good?

That's of course is taking for granted he felt whatever ever went on was wrong.

He either leaves, or accepts the risk and stays.

If the players are being completely open and genuinely didn't know they were cheating, if they were, then I don't think the full punishment is necessary but I just have this feeling that it will end up with them getting almost off because they've now "cooperated" and were ignorant to what they were taking. Which might be true, but then the next time an athlete is caught they look at that and use it as an excuse.

To be honest I've stopped closely following this whole thing weeks ago so I don't know where it's at right now so my opinions are probably based on old information.