Got a Random Question? Ask it Here. (Part 2)

[spence]

The one thing that works in Shaw's favour is that there are so many other dangerous players playing for Collingwood; Didak, Pendles, and Swan are the main ones. Therefore he may not receive the number 1 tag. I remember back in 2008 he was getting the number 1 tag and really really struggling, Gibbs kept him to about 20 DT points on a couple of occasions. Then in 2009 the 3 other Pie stars lifted their game to another level and hence coaches put attention on them rather than Shaw. Shaw still had his fair share of forward tags however they were not as effective as they were in 2008 beacuse he was not getting the number 1 tag from Gibbs, Kornes etc. I remember a few times last year he had a forward tag on him however he still managed to get 20+ disposals and keep his DT score respectable. Time will tell for 2010.

 

[samwise]

If he's scoring above 140 in the games he doesnt get tagged I dont think it matters if he has a few bad games. Even when he gets tagged I still think he will score over 70 and so the 115+ scores will easily even it out.

 

[ZergMinion]

I was tossing up between Shaw and Carrazzo for that spot in my team. Shaw came out ahead for these reasons:

Occasional massive scores
5th or 6th season
Almost as durable as Carrazzo
Maturing as a person (elevated to leadership group)
He played midfield in an interclub match
Carrazzo joined Carlton off the rookie list
Carrazzo is a tagger and has been doing the forward tag role occasionally
Gut feeling

Will be quite a while before I find out if I made a good choice

 

[abs_of_STEELE]

Wow, big debate on Heath Shaw! I'll add my view to make it even longer.

Those saying that he hasn't improved with tags are just making BS. Look at his scores after coming back from injury last year (round 7-22):

98, 80, 84, 91, 116, 85, 71, 60, 90, 110, 102, 75, 106, 71, 52, 97

That's an average of 87 and only 2 scores below 60. This time his worst score was 52, where as in past years he has struggle a lot more. In 2008 he had 5 scores below 50, but he didn't have that trouble in 2009.

So when he struggled in 2008, he would score 20-60, but now he scores at least 50-70 in his bad games. Obviously he is still a bit inconsistent, as we want him to get rid of those 50-70 scores, but there has been improvement in his consistency so I think he can improve again. But we'll see what happens.

 

[spence]

Wow, big debate on Heath Shaw! I'll add my view to make it even longer.

Those saying that he hasn't improved with tags are just making BS. Look at his scores after coming back from injury last year (round 7-22):

98, 80, 84, 91, 116, 85, 71, 60, 90, 110, 102, 75, 106, 71, 52, 97

That's an average of 99 and only 2 scores below 60. This time his worst score was 52, where as in past years he has struggle a lot more. In 2008 he had 5 scores below 50, but he didn't have that trouble in 2009.

So when he struggled in 2008, he would score 20-60, but now he scores at least 50-70 in his bad games. Obviously he is still a bit inconsistent, as we want him to get rid of those 50-70 scores, but there has been improvement in his consistency so I think he can improve again. But we'll see what happens.

Steele, he hasn't improved physically at all. He has just managed to received lesser tags on him in 2009 than he did in 2008. I can guarentee you if you put Gibbs, Ling, Kornes on him he would go back to his 20-30's.
All this talk about being in the leadership group is nonsense, has no impact on his scoring IMO.

If Shaw keeps showing how dangerous he is of half-back, he will get more attention and the players I mentioned above may go to him. This is why I did not pick him, such a dangerous player and I think he and Didak must be stopped by coaches if they would like to win the game (most do ).

 

[JDWCE]

Wow, big debate on Heath Shaw! I'll add my view to make it even longer.

Those saying that he hasn't improved with tags are just making BS. Look at his scores after coming back from injury last year (round 7-22):

98, 80, 84, 91, 116, 85, 71, 60, 90, 110, 102, 75, 106, 71, 52, 97

That's an average of 99 and only 2 scores below 60. This time his worst score was 52, where as in past years he has struggle a lot more. In 2008 he had 5 scores below 50, but he didn't have that trouble in 2009.

So when he struggled in 2008, he would score 20-60, but now he scores at least 50-70 in his bad games. Obviously he is still a bit inconsistent, as we want him to get rid of those 50-70 scores, but there has been improvement in his consistency so I think he can improve again. But we'll see what happens.

actually its an average of 86.75

 

[senrulzisback]

He wasn't even that dangerous on the weekend. Swan and Didak were much more effective. Shaw just took a fair few marks in dfence which boosted his score.

 

[abs_of_STEELE]

actually its an average of 86.75

Lol whoops, must've put a wrong number somewhere in calculations.

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

He wasn't even that dangerous on the weekend. Swan and Didak were much more effective. Shaw just took a fair few marks in dfence which boosted his score.

They're the sort of credentials that make a DT star.

 

[JDWCE]

Lol whoops, must've put a wrong number somewhere in calculations.

thats cool

in seeing those numbers though, he still averaged under 90 and had a good finish to last year. I cant really see a great lot changing for him this year

if he manages to continue his current trend then kudos to the people who picked him but i think there is defenders out there easily capable of averaging 90 and above, they just had slow starts compared to heater

 

[Cassius_Clay]

I've got a question. How the **** was Barry Hall more popular than Ablett, Martin, Warnock and Waters??? What a dud pick...

 

[Cassius_Clay]

Heath Shaw will be no different to every other year. He'll excel against teams who let him run free, and he'll be as crap as they get when he gets the forward tag. He's never been able to cope with a hard tag, has shown nothing to indicate he's been able to shrug the tag, and anyone who thinks that this year will be different is delusional.

Who's gonna tag him but? Swan, Pendleubury and Didak are clearly ahead in the pecking order.

Carrazzo is 1 guy who WILL tag him when they play Carlton.

 

[abs_of_STEELE]

Steele, he hasn't improved physically at all. He has just managed to received lesser tags on him in 2009 than he did in 2008. I can guarentee you if you put Gibbs, Ling, Kornes on him he would go back to his 20-30's.
All this talk about being in the leadership group is nonsense, has no impact on his scoring IMO.

If Shaw keeps showing how dangerous he is of half-back, he will get more attention and the players I mentioned above may go to him. This is why I did not pick him, such a dangerous player and I think he and Didak must be stopped by coaches if they would like to win the game (most do ).

Yes, he received less tags but he still didn't do as bad when he did get them. IMO he won't cop too many tags. If you tag Shaw then Harry O'Brien will simply step up and provide more rebound. Hell even Ben Johnson can provide that run and carry, obviously not as well as Shaw, but enough to make up for Shaw being quite. If you successfully tag Didak/Davis teams will gain a lot more out of it. Just look at the finals last year, both these guys were hopeless and so were Collingwood. Heath Shaw was one of our best, but Collingwood can't beat good teams if Didak/Davis are quite. Swan as well, but he is less easier to tag and teams think he isn't effective.

We all know that Collignwood don't have any real power forwards, and because of this we need Davis/Didak/Medders to kick goals. Stop them and it will go a long way towards winning. Stop Shaw and it will reduce some of our run and carry, but it won't stop us from winning IMO.

Obviously it all depends on who you think should get tagged. And you think he could get tagged so it makes sense not to pick him. But personally I think Didak/Davis/Swan/Pendlebury should definitely be tagged before Shaw.

But none of us are AFL coaches, so I guess we need to wait and see!

 

[banana_bus]

Who's gonna tag him but? Swan, Pendleubury and Didak are clearly ahead in the pecking order.

Carrazzo is 1 guy who WILL tag him when they play Carlton.

Guys like Monfries usually sacrifice their forward games to take out Shaw. Different types of taggers mate, were not talking about the Kirks, Rawlings etc..

 

[pillager]

I watched the Collingwood v Bulldogs game on the weekend. I made a comment to my brother, "Watch Shaw score 150 if the pies get to more than 4 or 5 goals in front".

The rest is history, if you were watching the game and didn't have Shaw in your team then you were probably feeling sick in the gut watching him take the cheap marks and kicks when they were slowing the game down.

Glad I have him, his sub 50 scores could be a thing of the past. Also, he no longer has the large strapping on his legs anymore. Collingwood have too many dangerous forwards and midfielders for opposition teams to tag heater. All good signs.

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

From our point of view, FFC is not really like EDT. but we don't recruit based on past finishes. We have plenty of members who wouldn't even get a look in at other private forums, but who we gave a chance to because they seemed passionate and posted well.

We're not an elitist group in that sense.

but we don't trawl through the rankings to find our members.

Others who have had one particularly good year (including both Spartz and myself)

Don't put words in my mouth DWD.

Hardly putting words into your mouth when all i am saying is that you said this. Anyone that can put one and one together can see your saying EDT recruit based on high rankings and FFC do not.

Also it is quite clear to see you talking yourself up there. Anyway that says i have had a ranking is talking themselves up. No need to include yourself after all Hodges ranked 7th one year and i dont see you including him and i doubt you have finished higher. If thats not talking yourself up than i dont know what is.

 

[holybishop]

Guys like Monfries usually sacrifice their forward games to take out Shaw. Different types of taggers mate, were not talking about the Kirks, Rawlings etc..

This. A forward tag is different to a regular midfield tag.

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

I think Shaw showed last year he can cope far better with a tag than the year before and also spending more time through the middle in which could be an outlet for him to a tag. These are the reasons i picked him. I thought he offered value and enough durability and could avg 90. It will be interesting to see if he scores 20-40's anymore because in the modern game i just cant see that happening from a gun like Shaw. Also this zoning has also helped him out and was a major factor to why i picked him. zoning causes less tags and helps players like Shaw as he can pick up more marks and cheap kicks.

 

[archiemoses]

This. A forward tag is different to a regular midfield tag.

Correct! Alot of people are missing that point.

Heater is clearly the most dominate HB at collingwood. Tag him and the crisp ball movement out of defence is stifled. There is no one else in the collingwood defence that is as damaging as Heater coming out of defence.

The game now is all about turnovers. So if you restrict Heater's possessions and influence off the HB you will create more turnovers (another poster said something very similar).

It is not the same for bulldogs, geelong or saints as they have a number of highly skilled players in the back line. Goddard is irrelevant. He is clearly elite and rightfully gets tagged, but he still gets decent scores whilst tagged as he has a lot more support from team mates. His 88 on the weekend is evidence of this.

All I am saying is that Heater is no good with a hard forward tag. I'd rather a consistent 90 scorer than a yo-yo 90 scorer. And this all depends if you're playing for overall ranking or to win a league!

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Any running half-back flanker that is a goto type for forward thrusts will attract some extra attention from the opposition. Drummond certainly cops it from time to time and his DT performance deteriorates commensurately just like Shaw.

Look at Malceski on the weekend. He played the extra man in defence and racked it up because the opposition gave him carte blanche to do as he pleased. He has better foot skills than Shaw so expect the opposition coaches to note his free-wheeling role and employ some negating tactics in some matches.

These two could actually attract more attention than Shaw because of their better disposal.

 

[abs_of_STEELE]

I think Shaw showed last year he can cope far better with a tag than the year before and also spending more time through the middle in which could be an outlet for him to a tag. These are the reasons i picked him. I thought he offered value and enough durability and could avg 90. It will be interesting to see if he scores 20-40's anymore because in the modern game i just cant see that happening from a gun like Shaw. Also this zoning has also helped him out and was a major factor to why i picked him. zoning causes less tags and helps players like Shaw as he can pick up more marks and cheap kicks.

Exactly. In the past MM has been pretty stupid when Heater has struggled. When he was having a bad game MM wouldn't do anything about it, he'd just let Heater's opponent take him to the square and out of the game.

Personally I think Heater was playing in the midfield PS not because they want him as a midfielder, but simply because they see it as a move when he is struggling. So if Heater does receive a forward tag, whether it be this week or in the future, I think we might play him in the middle to get rid of the tag.

Anyway, I think we should just stop this now.

 

[pillager]

Any running half-back flanker that is a goto type for forward thrusts will attract some extra attention from the opposition. Drummond certainly cops it from time to time and his DT performance deteriorates commensurately just like Shaw.

Look at Malceski on the weekend. He played the extra man in defence and racked it up because the opposition gave him carte blanche to do as he pleased. He has better foot skills than Shaw so expect the opposition coaches to note his free-wheeling role and employ some negating tactics in some matches.

These two could actually attract more attention than Shaw because of their better disposal.

I think Kennelly will get the hard tag ahead of Malceski, he is more damaging. I hopes this is the case, it's one of the reasons I picked Esky ahead of Kennelly.

 

[footycool]

I think Kennelly will get the hard tag ahead of Malceski, he is more damaging. I hopes this is the case, it's one of the reasons I picked Esky ahead of Kennelly.

I disagree. As a loosman Malceski IMO is more dangerous the Kennelly. Thats why this week Malceksi got a tag and Kennelly

 

[Knight Ryders]

Sydney's backs are interesting. Malceski has the best disposal, but he doesn't run and carry the ball like Kennelly and R.Shaw do. Rhyce carved in the first quarter against the Saints and was duly sat on after that which seemed to release both Malcek and Kennelly. If Round one is an indicator, Mattner will play a different role this year as a forward/midfield tagger. So in order, I would have thought Shaw, Kennelly and then Malcek will attract a tagger.

 

[pillager]

I disagree. As a loosman Malceski IMO is more dangerous the Kennelly. Thats why this week Malceksi got a tag and Kennelly

If only one of them get tagged, it will be Kennelly ahead of Malceski.