Grade our List

[The Blue Baggers]

Based on the old school report rate our list.

Grades
A+ = All time great
A = Champion
B = Better than most
C = good average player
D = Just a player
F = failure
UG = too soon to judge


A+ Chris Judd
A Marc Murphy
B+ Matthew Kreuzer
B Andrew Carazzo, Andrew Walker, Lachie Henderson, Jarrad Waite, Eddie Betts, Heath Scotland
C+ Chris Yarran
C Brock McLean, Bryce Gibbs, Michael Jamison, Jeff Garlett, Kade Simpson, Robbie Warnock
D Kane Lucas, Mitch Robinson, Ed Curnow, Denis Armfield, Zach Tuohy
UG - Jarryd Cachia, Andrew McInness, Levi Casboult

 

[juzza316]

i thought we had more players on our list?

 

[Claypigeon]

Probably not the best week for this but your assessment is pretty level headed, so kudos. .. Think Kreuzer is only a B at best though. .. Why'd you only include half the list though?

A+ Chris Judd
A Marc Murphy**
B Andrew Carazzo, Andrew Walker, Lachie Henderson, Jarrad Waite**, Eddie Betts, Heath Scotland, Matthew Kreuzer**
C+ Chris Yarran, Brock McLean**, Bryce Gibbs*, Michael Jamison**, Kade Simpson*
C Jarryd Cachia, Jeff Garlett, Robbie Warnock, Shaun Hampson, Jeremy Laidler**, Levi Casboult, David Ellard
D Kane Lucas, Mitch Robinson, Ed Curnow, Denis Armfield, Zach Tuohy, Sam Rowe, Nick Duigan, Marcus Davies, Simon White, Aaron Joesph, Matthew Watson*, Pat McCarthy
UG - Andrew McInness**, Dylan Buckley, Nick Graham, Luke Mitchell**, Tom Temay, Josh Bootsma

* Should be better & higher rated
** Injury has curtailed their ability to be rated where they should have been

Did I miss anyone?

 

[Kensa Carter]

I know we have a better list than that.

Don't let a poor loss to Collingwood make you underestimate our list. We're a good team and we've been playing more consistently all season. We're not the same team of 2012 that beat Collingwood but lose to an (early) Gold Coast and (Primus) Port Adelaide. We're making teams earn their wins.

I'm sure we're two tall forwards away from turning most of those narrow losses into wins. Don't overreact. Keep calm. The sky isn't falling. Don't read footy editorials posing as journalism. Take up yoga. Eat more fibre. Wear sunscreen.

 

[HARKER]

Probably not the best week for this but your assessment is pretty level headed, so kudos. .. Think Kreuzer is only a B at best though. .. Why'd you only include half the list though?

A+ Chris Judd
A Marc Murphy**
B Andrew Carazzo, Andrew Walker, Lachie Henderson, Jarrad Waite**, Eddie Betts, Heath Scotland, Matthew Kreuzer**
C+ Chris Yarran, Brock McLean**, Bryce Gibbs*, Michael Jamison**, Kade Simpson*
C Jarryd Cachia, Jeff Garlett, Robbie Warnock, Shaun Hampson, Jeremy Laidler**, Levi Casboult, David Ellard
D Kane Lucas, Mitch Robinson, Ed Curnow, Denis Armfield, Zach Tuohy, Sam Rowe, Nick Duigan, Marcus Davies, Simon White, Aaron Joesph, Matthew Watson*, Pat McCarthy
UG - Andrew McInness**, Dylan Buckley, Nick Graham, Luke Mitchell**, Tom Temay, Josh Bootsma

* Should be better & higher rated
** Injury has curtailed their ability to be rated where they should have been

Did I miss anyone?

Someone called Menzel?

List is important but playing like a team is more important.

 

[T2B_]

I know it's not really relevant, but I reckon sooner rather than later we could very well see the likes of Graham and McInnes shoot up to at least a B (or C+ at worst). Only a prediction of course, Graham hasn't even got a game yet but all his attributes suggest he'll fit in nicely.

Andy Mac will most likely always just be a good solid player (not a bad thing) but even in the Collingwood game I saw some things that suggests he has maybe a couple extra tricks than I thought he had.

 

[HARKER]

Firstly we could have done better through drafting, no question. But then again so could have most teams.
Our problem has been that we've hung onto some players too long which then exacerbates the issue.
Had have Davies, Joseph and Ellard not been given new contracts 2 years ago, we would have had three kids playing and no-one would have been dirty on them.

Davies was a pick #43 and other than Stratton you'd be hard pressed putting up an argument for caring for anyone else after that pick.
Joseph and Ellard were rookies so if we had have let them go/traded them in 2011, we'd have been none the worst for it.

2010 is the year that may haunt us though but even then, how many of the players after pick #34 would have us a better side today?
Fasolo and Puopolo weren't the types we were after anyway. There are a hell of a lot of busts after that pick #34.

Yesterday for the hundredth time, we had some know-alls suggesting that Russell was an absolute bust at being picked up at #9 in 2004.
There are only 2 players after Russell that I could confidently call as having been the better option and that would be Van Berlo at #24 and Le Cras at #37.
It's just annoying having false scenarios put up and even worse, believed by the masses.

Broken record time but our list management has been a real issue and why we have been so poor at that along with development makes for another discussion.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Broken record time but our list management has been a real issue and why we have been so poor at that along with development makes for another discussion.

Will add to the another discussion, we can roll out halfback flankers like no tomorrow, had the same mids for 5 years, yet we have way too many 6'5s in the magoos, and our forward line is a shambles, with the same olds galloping about. Who is in charge of that lot?????

Just sayin'

 

[bluebrew]

Will add to the another discussion, we can roll out halfback flankers like no tomorrow, had the same mids for 5 years, our forward line however is a shambles. Who is charge of that lot?????

Just sayin'

Yep we have had the same Mids for 5 years they are exceptional at running one way and looking pretty for the cameras,unfortunately when I look at teams that are genuine contenders their mids seem to run harder in defence and then run for attack secondly.

And who on our list can kick a hard low pass 30 meters that does not get above head height? Look at the top teams again and notice how much faster this allows them to move the ball.

 

[HARKER]

Will add to the another discussion, we can roll out halfback flankers like no tomorrow, had the same mids for 5 years, yet we have way too many 6'5s in the magoos, and our forward line is a shambles, with the same olds galloping about. Who is in charge of that lot?????

Just sayin'

????

Our first selections in the past 8 years.

2005: Murphy = Mid
2006: Gibbs = Mid
2007: Kreuzer = Ruckman
2008: Yarran = Classy small forward to become Mid.
2009: Lucas = Mid
2010: Watson: KPD
2011: Bootsma = Backman but planned to use as a rangy winger.
2012: Menzel: Classy mid sized forward capable of going into the middle.

None of the above were ever set out to be a HBF'er.
Again it's not for the draft but for the retention of players that I have the problem with.

Yes our list is way off balance at the moment and hence..............................

 

[The Blue Baggers]

I know it's not really relevant, but I reckon sooner rather than later we could very well see the likes of Graham and McInnes shoot up to at least a B (or C+ at worst). Only a prediction of course, Graham hasn't even got a game yet but all his attributes suggest he'll fit in nicely.

Andy Mac will most likely always just be a good solid player (not a bad thing) but even in the Collingwood game I saw some things that suggests he has maybe a couple extra tricks than I thought he had.

agree, thought Andy Mac looked better than Simon White.

 

[BM123]

I know it's not really relevant, but I reckon sooner rather than later we could very well see the likes of Graham and McInnes shoot up to at least a B (or C+ at worst). Only a prediction of course, Graham hasn't even got a game yet but all his attributes suggest he'll fit in nicely.

Andy Mac will most likely always just be a good solid player (not a bad thing) but even in the Collingwood game I saw some things that suggests he has maybe a couple extra tricks than I thought he had.

Perfect thing for a defender to me.

 

[BM123]

????

Our first selections in the past 8 years.

2005: Murphy = Mid
2006: Gibbs = Mid
2007: Kreuzer = Ruckman
2008: Yarran = Classy small forward to become Mid.
2009: Lucas = Mid
2010: Watson: KPD
2011: Bootsma = Backman but planned to use as a rangy winger.
2012: Menzel: Classy mid sized forward capable of going into the middle.

None of the above were ever set out to be a HBF'er.
Again it's not for the draft but for the retention of players that I have the problem with.

Yes our list is way off balance at the moment and hence..............................

Problem is we still recruited HBF's with our 2nd/third selections by the ton. Playing Gibbs, Lucas and Yarran down at Half back in the past doesn't help the perception of us having too many flankers.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

That's just our problem, too much emphasis on the individual assessments.

I dont care what the individual ratings are as long as the team can start rating an A for effort, intensity, hunger, care factor, discipline, work ethic, team work & structure, tackling, chasing, manning up, spoiling, decision making, focus etc.

The rest will fall into place, most of the Swans, Cats and Hawks players individually wouldn't rate an A or A+ but you cant question them on the areas I have listed.

Gibbs is better then most so should be rated a "B" at least on the OP's scale IMO.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Probably not the best week for this but your assessment is pretty level headed, so kudos. .. Think Kreuzer is only a B at best though. .. Why'd you only include half the list though?

A+ Chris Judd
A Marc Murphy**
B Andrew Carazzo, Andrew Walker, Lachie Henderson, Jarrad Waite**, Eddie Betts, Heath Scotland, Matthew Kreuzer**
C+ Chris Yarran, Brock McLean**, Bryce Gibbs*, Michael Jamison**, Kade Simpson*
C Jarryd Cachia, Jeff Garlett, Robbie Warnock, Shaun Hampson, Jeremy Laidler**, Levi Casboult, David Ellard
D Kane Lucas, Mitch Robinson, Ed Curnow, Denis Armfield, Zach Tuohy, Sam Rowe, Nick Duigan, Marcus Davies, Simon White, Aaron Joesph, Matthew Watson*, Pat McCarthy
UG - Andrew McInness**, Dylan Buckley, Nick Graham, Luke Mitchell**, Tom Temay, Josh Bootsma

* Should be better & higher rated
** Injury has curtailed their ability to be rated where they should have been

Did I miss anyone?

I gave Kreuzer B+ and Yarran C+ cause I think they can go to the next level. Where as McLean, Jamison and Simpson are not going to get any better.

Totally agree on Gibbs. Should be an A grader but appears to not care too much.

We pretty much agree on our ratings except Hampson who I rate a D (at best).

 

[Bronze]

Yesterday for the hundredth time, we had some know-alls suggesting that Russell was an absolute bust at being picked up at #9 in 2004.
There are only 2 players after Russell that I could confidently call as having been the better option and that would be Van Berlo at #24 and Le Cras at #37.
It's just annoying having false scenarios put up and even worse, believed by the masses.

Very true, you know the problem was that Carlton actually over-performed in 2004, judging by ladder position and wins/losses compared the other years between 2002-2007.
The 9th pick in the draft, although it looks like a great pick to have, was in fact not valuable enough as none of the superstars fell outside number 7.
It would have been great to have had 2 picks in the top 6 like Richmond, Hawthorn and Bulldogs. Any 2 of Deledio, Franklin, Roughead, Griffen and Lewis would have been set us up nicely.

 

[BM123]

No problem recruiting them as long as we're turning them over, but we've just held onto them in some hope that a couple will come through.

Davies shouldn't be on our list.
O'Keeffe as much as I like him may have been let go by other clubs a lot earlier.
Duigan served a purpose but that dream is now over.
Russell has been de-listed already but the above guys are unlikely to be on the list next year anyway.

The fact that we've had to use Walker, Gibbs, Yarran and Tuohy as our HB flankers tells me that we've had problems filling those posts and not the other way around.

Not sure how we could focus on HBF's and still need to rob other areas of the ground to fill up the holes down back. Would be nice to have those spots sewn up with Tuohy and Walker up the ground.

 

[Stamos]

It's not our drafting which is the problem (although of course it could always be better, and with the restructure of our recruiting department should improve), but the development.

Imagine how good Gibbs and Yarran or even Watson would be if they were drafted to Geelong. Think about how much Laidler improved our backline in 2011, and he couldn't get a game at Geelong.

 

[BM123]

It's not our drafting which is the problem (although of course it could always be better, and with the restructure of our recruiting department should improve), but the development.

Imagine how good Gibbs and Yarran or even Watson would be if they were drafted to Geelong. Think about how much Laidler improved our backline in 2011, and he couldn't get a game at Geelong.

Makes me cringe when I think about Gibbs and Yarran killing it for Sydney or Geelong.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

It's not our drafting which is the problem (although of course it could always be better, and with the restructure of our recruiting department should improve), but the development.

Imagine how good Gibbs and Yarran or even Watson would be if they were drafted to Geelong. Think about how much Laidler improved our backline in 2011, and he couldn't get a game at Geelong.

How is Laidler not getting a game in our backline?

 

[Stamos]

How is Laidler not getting a game in our backline?

A mixture of his injury, not having great form in the 2s, and Mick not liking him for whatever reason.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

That's just our problem, too much emphasis on the individual assessments.

I dont care what the individual ratings are as long as the team can start rating an A for effort, intensity, hunger, care factor, discipline, work ethic, team work & structure, tackling, chasing, manning up, spoiling, decision making, focus etc.

The rest will fall into place, most of the Swans, Cats and Hawks players individually wouldn't rate an A or A+ but you cant question them on the areas I have listed.

Gibbs is better then most so should be rated a "B" at least on the OP's scale IMO.

I do agree with your "team first" sentiment, but Geelong is full of A graders over the last decade.

When you get a team full of A graders with a great attitude that's when you get a dynasty.

 

[Stamos]

I do agree with your "team first" sentiment, but Geelong is full of A graders over the last decade.

When you get a team full of A graders with a great attitude that's when you get a dynasty.

They weren't all A graders out of the draft though. Scarlett, certainly. They traded in Ottens. Enright has been super consistent.

But Ablett was very average for the first 5 years of his career. It was the culture and development that turned him into the best player in the league, and many of their other players into 'A graders'.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

I do agree with your "team first" sentiment, but Geelong is full of A graders over the last decade.

When you get a team full of A graders with a great attitude that's when you get a dynasty.

They weren't A graders until they started doing those team things and sacrificing for each other on a regular basis and in big finals, that's what made them A graders.

Their team structures, development and discipline etc has made them the players we rate them today.

 

[LordLucifer]

I've rejigged your rating system to categorise the players in a more accurate manner :

A = Elite

Nil

B = Top Shelf
Andrew Carrazzo
Andrew Walker
Andrew McInnes
Lachie Henderson
Jeff Garlett
Eddie Betts
Chris Judd
Marc Murphy
Michael Jamison
Kade Simpson
Mathew Kreuzer

C = Second Tier
Zach Tuohy
Denis Armfield
Jarryd Cachia
Brock McLean
Mitch Robinson
Kane Lucas
Chris Yarran
Bryce Gibbs

D = Delist Material
Pat McCarthy
Luke Mitchell
Sam Rowe
Frazer Dale
Andrew Collins
Rhys O'Keefe

L = Learner Plates
Troy Menzel
Tom Temay
Nick Graham
Dylan Buckley
Josh Bootsma
Tom Bell
Levi Casboult

R = Retirees
Heath Scotland
Jarrod Waite

S = Surplus
Robert Warnock
Shaun Hampson
Jeremy Laidler
David Ellard
Aaron Joseph
Marcus Davies
Simon White
Mathew Watson
Nick Duigan
Ed Curnow