Preview Grading our list

[Sea fog]

When a couple of key players are taken out, it can have a flow-on effect though in terms of what roles players play etc.

 

[loki04]

A+: (Best of the best)
Brodie Grundy
Jordan De Goey
Adam Treloar

A:(Elite)
Scott Pendlebury
Steele Sidebottom
Dayne Beams (I know his form has been a bit down)
Jack Crisp
Jamie Elliott

B+:(Above Average)
Tom Langdon
Taylor Adams
Jeremy Howe
Jaidyn Stephenson
Brayden Maynard
Darcy Moore
Will Hoskin-Elliott

B:(Average AFL player)
Brody Mihocek
Mason Cox
Brayden Sier
Lynden Dunn
Chris Mayne
Josh Thomas
Daniel Wells
Tom Phillips

C+:(Below average)
Travis Varcoe
Levi Greenwood
Matthew Scharenberg
Callum Brown
James Aish
Ben Reid
Jordan Roughead
Tyson Goldsack
Flynn Appleby
Sam Murray

C: (Well below average)
Rupert Wills
Josh Daicos
Tim Broomhead
Nathan Murphy

D+: (Not AFL standard)
Ben Crocker
Jack Madgen

Unrated:
Isaac Quaynor
Max Lynch
Atu Bosenuvalagi
Tyler Brown
Will Kelly
Tom Wilson
Mark Keane
Anton Tohill

On your ratings system:

Treloar is not an A+ player. Far too many flaws in his game to be listed in that bracket. He is an accumulator but brings little else to the table these days a 30+ disp, 200m player, means he isn't running with the ball, his kicking is lacking precision plus depth and is too inside to be a break away mid.

In 2019 Sidebum is an 'A grader' playing 'C' grade footy really struggling with the tags and poor disposal this year.

Pendles year has been up and down like a hookers knickers, started the year poorly and built to a purple patch where everyone was saying "he's back" only to fall off a bit in the recent weeks. A grader at his best but a B+ season.. an ageing pie champion.

Degoey is a bit to hot and cold within the same game to be an A+ although his best is definitely A+, his lack of tank means we don't see it as often as we should. Id give him A and when he gets fitter will become an A+. The difference between Degoey and Dusty is that Dusty has a tank and can impact all parts of the ground due to it.

Beams: B+ player in 2019 with hip and mental health issues missing half a year, what can we expect moving forward another year older at 30 yo?
Hopefully a good few seasons the bonus with Beams is he has never relied on pace or extreme athleticism to play his best footy, so fingers crossed we can get a few more years out of him at an A level. Maybe a role back to where he started his footy as a HFF would help with better team balance with stints on ball part of rotations but not a starting mid.

Cox is not a B player but a C+, he needs everything going right for him up field and defenders who dont know what body work means for him to impact a game. Needs more development in many areas to make best use of his height. It seems the weekly cry is but what else do we have?

D.Moore is very much an A grader, certainly his first 11 weeks had him leading AA honors, team injuries combined with smarter opposition tactics to either avoid Moore or make him play further from the contest have nulled his influence. Something Buckley and Moore need to work through.

Crisp is an A- but again like the team has fell away mid season.

Eliott has not played an A grade game in years, A grade talent but not in real performances of late. B player atm.

Langdon and Howe both close to A players maybe A- needs to be installed in your ratings very good AFL players close to elite.

Adams like the aforementioned duo would also fall into a A- category.

Roughead is a B player.

Mayne and Thomas C+.

Wells is interesting how do you rate a player who can't play 5 games a year? No matter how talented said player is if he can't get on the field he is as useless as clear liquid paper.
D rated, it has been a failure. Even as much of a fan as I am of his, as he is all class on field, his body does not allow him to play sustained AFL footy anymore.

Grundy only player who you can argue for being the best of the best at his role with M.Gawn, the biggest gripe of mine for Grundy is lacking scoreboard impact (like Gawn does regularly) and lacking cohesion with mids from his Hit outs (this is also an issue due to mids not just Grundy but his directional taps need work to land advantage side more often when he gets a clear win). I would give him an A+ but with areas of improvement.

 

[nahnah]

On your ratings system:

Treloar is not an A+ player. Far too many flaws in his game to be listed in that bracket. He is an accumulator but brings little else to the table these days a 30+ disp, 200m player, means he isn't running with the ball, his kicking is lacking precision plus depth and is too inside to be a break away mid.

In 2019 Sidebum is an 'A grader' playing 'C' grade footy really struggling with the tags and poor disposal this year.

Pendles year has been up and down like a hookers knickers, started the year poorly and built to a purple patch where everyone was saying "he's back" only to fall off a bit in the recent weeks. A grader at his best but a B+ season.. an ageing pie champion.

Degoey is a bit to hot and cold within the same game to be an A+ although his best is definitely A+, his lack of tank means we don't see it as often as we should. Id give him A and when he gets fitter will become an A+. The difference between Degoey and Dusty is that Dusty has a tank and can impact all parts of the ground due to it.

Beams: B+ player in 2019 with hip and mental health issues missing half a year, what can we expect moving forward another year older at 30 yo?
Hopefully a good few seasons the bonus with Beams is he has never relied on pace or extreme athleticism to play his best footy, so fingers crossed we can get a few more years out of him at an A level. Maybe a role back to where he started his footy as a HFF would help with better team balance with stints on ball part of rotations but not a starting mid.

Cox is not a B player but a C+, he needs everything going right for him up field and defenders who dont know what body work means for him to impact a game. Needs more development in many areas to make best use of his height. It seems the weekly cry is but what else do we have?

D.Moore is very much an A grader, certainly his first 11 weeks had him leading AA honors, team injuries combined with smarter opposition tactics to either avoid Moore or make him play further from the contest have nulled his influence. Something Buckley and Moore need to work through.

Crisp is an A- but again like the team has fell away mid season.

Eliott has not played an A grade game in years, A grade talent but not in real performances of late. B player atm.

Langdon and Howe both close to A players maybe A- needs to be installed in your ratings very good AFL players close to elite.

Adams like the aforementioned duo would also fall into a A- category.

Roughead is a B player.

Mayne and Thomas C+.

Wells is interesting how do you rate a player who can't play 5 games a year? No matter how talented said player is if he can't get on the field he is as useless as clear liquid paper.
D rated, it has been a failure. Even as much of a fan as I am of his, as he is all class on field, his body does not allow him to play sustained AFL footy anymore.

Grundy only player who you can argue for being the best of the best at his role with M.Gawn, the biggest gripe of mine for Grundy is lacking scoreboard impact (like Gawn does regularly) and lacking cohesion with mids from his Hit outs (this is also an issue due to mids not just Grundy but his directional taps need work to land advantage side more often when he gets a clear win). I would give him an A+ but with areas of improvement.

Yup, pretty much

 

[Roverjg]

I am curious to know that when somebody rates a player is it based on whether they like the player or not, is it based on stats that assist in quantifying their position etc or your own opinion?

 

[Thatsmyname]

You can't help but feel snubbed

 

[Sea fog]

Good team but one could put up another one which would give them a run for their money.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Ah right, so we should go on the effusive predictions of a few media hacks rather than analyse what actually transpired. Good luck with that.

That's not what I said, deny all you want but at the time of 2011 the media stated dynasty was a possibility and the club was not denying it - and rightly so. We lost two games only with a % of nearly 170 - that's not chump change that's generational. Not just a few media hacks not to be taken seriously opinions.

Deny the opinion of the footy industry at the time - good luck with that.

 

[jackcass]

That's not what I said, deny all you want but at the time of 2011 the media stated dynasty was a possibility and the club was not denying it - and rightly so. We lost two games only with a % of nearly 170 - that's not chump change that's generational. Not just a few media hacks not to be taken seriously opinions.

Deny the opinion of the footy industry at the time - good luck with that.

As I've challenged you in the past, make the case. You've never taken me up on it. Every bit of actual player by player analysis I've seen shows the decline and the obvious reasons for it. It's a pretty simple choice, either pre-event guess work or post event analysis. I know what ill back, no luck required.

 

[NonPhixion]

You can't help but feel snubbed

View attachment 706385

Few players don’t really deserve to be there tbh. Players like De Goey and Heeney should be infront of Petracca and Lambert.
But going to our list, I still think the biggest weakness is a reliable key forward. We have good depth down back more than anything. Has been tested, but Quaynor adds another dimension. Midfield should be performing better. Too much talent to be losing clearances most weeks like we do. List is in a good spot for a couple years imo.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Few players don’t really deserve to be there tbh. Players like De Goey and Heeney should be infront of Petracca and Lambert.
But going to our list, I still think the biggest weakness is a reliable key forward. We have good depth down back more than anything. Has been tested, but Quaynor adds another dimension. Midfield should be performing better. Too much talent to be losing clearances most weeks like we do. List is in a good spot for a couple years imo.

De Goo and Heeney might be superstars but the other two are producing consistently, and yep we need a dominant key forward to be a genuine threat!
If the preliminary final had been Cox's breakout game that would have been great and bought us a couple of years but as it stands there is literally no one.

 

[Carringbush2010]

As I've challenged you in the past, make the case. You've never taken me up on it. Every bit of actual player by player analysis I've seen shows the decline and the obvious reasons for it. It's a pretty simple choice, either pre-event guess work or post event analysis. I know what ill back, no luck required.

Well then Jack it's argued that post event didn't go to plan as it should have. No matter which way you boil it down and dissect it could be argued that a dynasty may have been missed.

Luck or no luck the possibility was there and given the teams record highly likely. No luck required.

 

[jackcass]

Well then Jack it's argued that post event didn't go to plan as it should have. No matter which way you boil it down and dissect it could be argued that a dynasty may have been missed.

Luck or no luck the possibility was there and given the teams record highly likely. No luck required.

Okay, more deflection. If it could be argued, boil it down and go for it. You keep making the claim but it appears pretty empty. I'll leave it there pending your in-depth player by player, year by year analysis countering all that has gone before you.

 

[loki04]

You can't help but feel snubbed

View attachment 706385

Grundy is the only Collingwood player who could feel slighted (between him and Gawn is a toss up depending on style of ruck you want).

Most of our players haven't been consistent to date in 2019.

 

[loki04]

De Goo and Heeney might be superstars but the other two are producing consistently, and yep we need a dominant key forward to be a genuine threat!
If the preliminary final had been Cox's breakout game that would have been great and bought us a couple of years but as it stands there is literally no one.

Petracca hasn't been all that consistent this year. Degoey is having a superior year.


The most consistent of those 3 mentioned has been Heeney and also statistically superior to above 2 (except goals vs Degoey).

 

[Thatsmyname]

Petracca hasn't been all that consistent this year. Degoey is having a superior year.


The most consistent of those 3 mentioned has been Heeney and also statistically superior to above 2 (except goals vs Degoey).

It's all statistics, that side isn't picked subjectively

 

[Roverjg]

Rating the team based on this year's performance to date

A Grade
Grundy: Is the Magpies best player and possibly our best midfielder as well. A great mark. There appears to be a disconnect between Grundy and the midfield in that the majority of his taps go to where our player isn’t. The main knock on Grundy’s game is his short kicking where the majority of the turnovers occur. Grundy’s kick to handball ratio is indicative of how one dimensional our midfield is. All of our midfielder’s handball more than they kick. He has a kick to HB ratio of 45/55. In comparison, Max Gawn’s kick to HB ratio is 67/33. 30% of Grundy’s possessions are ineffective.
(2019 Average: 9.4 kicks; 11.4 HB; 5.4 clearances; 3.5 stoppages; 14 effective disposals per game; 4 turnovers)

Moore: Has lived up to all expectations this year following his move to the back line. Has played 13 of 15 games. Averages 16 possessions per game at 82% disposal efficiency. In the top 20 for the AFL in R50’s and Intercept possessions (7.6). Averages 7.8 one percenters per game (smothers, spoils, shepherds, knock-ons). Has had a quiet few weeks, which is reflective of the whole team.
(2019 Average: 10 kicks; 6 HB; 5 marks; 5.2 R50’s)

Pendlebury: There are signs of age and wear and tear in the Rolls Royce. His kicks no longer have the penetration they once did and he is struggling to kick over 40m, and his quick reflexes show signs of slowing, however, he remains significantly better than what is in second place in the Pies midfield. Never a noted goal-kicker (hasn’t reached double figures for some years), his accuracy has diminished greatly from 52.9% last year to 36.4% this year. He ranks 3rd in the AFL this season for I50’s. Kick to HB ratio is 52/48.
(2019 Average: 14.5 kicks; 13.3 HB; 5 clearances; 20.2 effective disposals; 3.7 Turnovers; 72.8% DE; 5.6 I50’s;

Roughead: The diamond in the rough and the recruit of the season for mine. Ranked 6th in the AFL for effective disposals % per game. Averages 7.8 one percenters per game (smothers, spoils, shepherds, knock-ons).
(2019 Average: 7.2 kicks; 5.2 HB; 11 effective disposals per game; 89% disposal efficiency; 5.5 marks; 3 R50’s; 5.3 intercepts

Stephenson: His suspension is a significant loss for the Pies from a team structure perspective and what he offers the Pies. Without him the Pies lack structure. Jaidyn was averaging just under 2 goals per game. He was leading tackles I50 (16), which resulted in him kicking 9 goals from frees. He leads the Pies goal assists (13) despite not playing for 3 weeks. Is ranked 6th in AFL for marks I50 this year and was ranked 10th in the AFL for score assists.
(2019 Average: 11.4 kicks; 4 HB; 6.5 marks; 2.9 MI50’s; 21 goals; 13 GA)

B Grade
Adams: Had a delayed start to the season because of a hand injury. He played 5 games before suffering a groin injury. He has missed the past 10 weeks. He has been a huge loss to our midfield. In the 5 games he played this year he was ranked 7th in the AFL for I50’s per game; ranked 7th in the AFL for centre clearances per game and ranked 10th in the AFL for goal assists per game. Kick to HB ratio is 61/39. The knock on Adams is his poor disposal, with 35% of his possessions being ineffective.
(2019 Average: 14 kicks; 9 HB; 15 effective disposals per game; 4 turnovers; 4 tackles; 5.2 I50’s; 5.2 clearances; 3 centre clearances; 2.5 stoppages; 6 score involvements per game)

Beams: A spluttering start for Beams with 3 games then injured, then 3 games, then injured then 3 games and then out injured for the season. Following his season ending injury it was revealed Beams had been dealing with an issue with his hip since the end of last year, which hampered him during the pre-season and has required cortisone injections to help him play this year. Turns 30 before the start of next season. Is contracted for another 3 years. Has a history of being injury prone and at the end of this season would have played 51 of a possible 88 games over the past 4 seasons.
(2019 Average: 13.8 kicks; 11.3 HB; 17.6 effective disposals per game; 4.3 turnovers; 4.6 clearances)

Crisp: Has not missed a game since joining the Pies. Ultra-consistent. There has been only 3 games this year that he has not had more than 20 possessions per game. 66% of his possessions have been uncontested. At times he is let down by his inconsistent disposal.
(2019 Average: 14.5 kicks; 11.4 HB; 6.1 marks; 3 R50; 3 I50; 18.9 effective disposals per game; 5 turnovers)

De Goey: He is an A Grader that has the potential to be anything. The only thing in the way of him reaching his potential is himself and believing his own publicity. He is usually the spark that gets the team going. However I feel that this year he is playing at a B level. There are periods in each game where he sets the game alight (ala Gary Ablett snr) but then goes missing for large periods of the game. His goal-kicking accuracy has dropped away alarmingly (over the past 2 years. In 2017, it was 58.3%, last year it was 56.5% and this year it is 46.8%) as has his field kicking. 40% of De Goey’s disposals are ineffective and is compounded when he doesn’t get much of the ball to start with. Has had 10 tackles I50 this year, but only 1 in the past 5 games.
(2019 Average: 12.3 kicks; 4.2 HB; 10 effective disposals per game; 4 turnovers)

Langdon: Under-rated. Was a cornerstone of the backline before his season was ended by a knee injury in Round 9. Disposal efficiency of 82.7%
(2019 Average: 8 kicks; 10 HB; 5 marks; 2.2 R50; 6.3 contested possessions per game; 15 effective disposals per game; 7.2 intercepts)

Maynard: Dependable defender who is as tough as nails. Averages 360m gained per game. People knock is disposal, however, when one peels back his possessions (Kick to HB ratio is 67/33), he is one of the best.
(2019 Average: 12.3 kicks; 6 HB; 14.2 effective disposals per game; 77.5% DE; 3.2 turnovers; 4.3 marks; 4 R50’s; 4.5 intercepts)

Sidebottom: Commentators claim every game that Sidey is one of the best field kicks and kicks for goal in the AFL. Because it is repeated often enough people accept this is fact. His dicky kicks are among the most annoying in the AFL. Ranked 9th in the AFL for uncontested possessions. Has struggled to break the hard tag.
(2019 Average: 14.3 kicks; 11.3 HB; 18.3 effective disposals per game; 4.3 Turnovers; 71.8% DE)

Howe

C GRADE
Treloar: For me Treloar has been the biggest disappointment this year. The high disposals Treloar is accumulating each week masks his deficiencies. Ranked 1st in the AFL for disposal, 3rd for uncontested possessions and 3rd for clangers. It is claimed Treloar's disposal efficiency is poor because he is being played out of position. However, for the past 3 years his disposal efficiency has been the same and he has had a kick to HB ratio of 42/58, being that only 42% of his disposals are kicks. So despite the fact that over 60% of his possessions are uncontested and 58% of his possessions are handballs, it appears that he is poor by hand and foot. His over the back HB’s without looking or his kicks that constantly go straight up in the air are a constant source of frustration. Unfortunately the double hamstring injuries last year appear to have curtailed his explosive pace and the depth in his kicks). One third of his total possessions is ineffective. Averages 9.3mg per possession. I would be open to trading Treloar if it provides us with a decent draft pick.
(2019 Average: 14 kicks; 19.1 HB; 4.1 stoppages; 4.7 tackles; 22.9 effective disposals per game; 7 turnovers per game)

Phillips: Another who has disappointed despite also racking up large numbers of disposals. As with Treloar, 33% of his disposals are ineffective. Lacks peripheral vision and awareness and needlessly bombs his kicks. I would also have been happy to trade him if it assisting in regenerating our midfield and provided us with a decent draft pick. However, it was announced yesterday that he has signed on for another 2 years. He is ranked 17th in the AFL for uncontested possessions. Kick to HB ratio is 61/39.
(2019 Average: 15.2 kicks; 9.6 HB; 16 effective disposals per game; 6 Turnovers per game; 67%DE)

Aish
Brown
Elliott
Greenwood
Mayne
Mihocek
WHE

D GRADE
Cox
Thomas
Varcoe

 

[Carringbush2010]

Okay, more deflection. If it could be argued, boil it down and go for it. You keep making the claim but it appears pretty empty. I'll leave it there pending your in-depth player by player, year by year analysis countering all that has gone before you.

Ok more denial. I'll put you on ignore now.

 

[jackcass]

Ok more denial. I'll put you on ignore now.

Thats the spirit.