Bumped Hardwick's pass mark

[CoggaRules]

Ok tigerheads, we have had two years of Dimma and afforded him our patience.
He seems to be doing ok, with what he has had to work with, has been cleaning out the list by and large of players who we have debated about and now we have come to year 3 and not that its time to deliver, but its time IMO to put his nouse to the test.
What do all the tigerheads suggest is his pass mark? And if he doesnt reach it, does this board again see the dreaded, "Sack..." threads start appearing?

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

I think if we beat either Hawthorn or Kangaroos in the Nab Cup they should sign him for another 2 years straight away. Hawks will be top 4 this year and the Roos will be top 8 because of an easy draw so beating one of these teams would mean we will be a top 8 team for sure which means Hardwick has done his job and should be rewarded.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I think if we beat either Hawthorn or Kangaroos in the Nab Cup they should sign him for another 2 years straight away. Hawks will be top 4 this year and the Roos will be top 8 because of an easy draw so beating one of these teams would mean we will be a top 8 team for sure which means Hardwick has done his job and should be rewarded.

Dennis Pagan says Hi!

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Early days yet...ask me again nex year...i think 2013 will give us all a clearer picture of where we're at...

It still smells of transition from Spud/Wallace to Dimma for me...

 

[CallMeAl]

the club formulated a long term plan around Hradwicks tenure. That involves making the finals this year, so anything short of that is a failure.

Up to this point he has pretty much done what he set out to, so just missing out on the eight would not be grounds to be searching for a new coach, but a very poor season may be.

 

[pcara]

What happened to his contract extension.there was talk an extension was to occur before the season starts.

 

[juss]

A pass mark is improvement on the year before, whether it be more wins and a better ladder position. It may not exactly be the level of improvement we want but we can't really fault the guy if we are moving forward. The obvious fine print is that we are continuing to develop players and we can see clear improvement in the gameplan, defensive pressure, tackling etc.

I'll be dissapointed if we don't play finals but as long as we improve even if only just I'l accept that.

Pass mark is 10 wins I reckon. And that's just a pass.

 

[Grin]

Statistically I'll be looking for a big increase in contested possession.
Also improvement in tackle count and an improvement in clearances.

No dropping of games that we really should win because the side isn't switched on (ie Gold Coast and Port)

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Dennis Pagan says Hi!

Dennis Pagan says... "I pwned your club"

 

[David3030]

I want to see continued improvement from the team this year. Not necessarily more wins than last year, although that would be good, better stoppage / clearance team, not getting pwned at centre bounces, better understanding of the game plan and for longer periods and we do not get blown away by teams.

The Grog Squad page on facebook has a comment stating that Dimma should be resigned for 2 more years prior to the season commencing.

 

[jko'neal]

Statistically I'll be looking for a big increase in contested possession.
Also improvement in tackle count and an improvement in clearances.

No dropping of games that we really should win because the side isn't switched on (ie Gold Coast and Port)

Very good points here, horror of a fixture early given the fact we play the top 8 from last year inside the first 10 rounds. So I'm not going to judge him ladder position too much. But certain things must improve, and dropping games to bottom of the ladder teams is a no no from here on in. And if it's true from the comments made by Leppa the other day that there are 10 spots up for grabs, am I the only one concerned that the head coach and his off siders are unsure who half of their preferred starting line up is

 

[TJTIGER]

A pass mark is improvement on the year before, whether it be more wins and a better ladder position. It may not exactly be the level of improvement we want but we can't really fault the guy if we are moving forward. The obvious fine print is that we are continuing to develop players and we can see clear improvement in the gameplan, defensive pressure, tackling etc.

I'll be dissapointed if we don't play finals but as long as we improve even if only just I'l accept that.

Pass mark is 10 wins I reckon. And that's just a pass.

I agree with Jak's comment about transition from Wallace's time. As far as an acceptable level goes I think juss sums it up pretty well

 

[acr2751]

imo he already has a pass mark on his current contract

 

[tunksy]

think we can make the finals and know alot could go wrong too.

harswick already hass a pass mark i believe. its gonna take more than 2 years to get out of the shit hole we were in.

who will be better than him that we can nab if we dont resign him? another untried? malthouse? please if all goes to shit. dont call for his head hes done alot more right so far than he has done wrong. it took how long for thompson to get the cats to where they were?

 

[theflea]

natural progression, not necessarily making the 8 or no of wins.

 

[johnno77]

I believe we need to make the 8 this year to get a pass mark, not so much from our supporters and the board but externally. Normally external expectations mean little but given free agency kicks in next year, it will be massive. It could mean the difference between keeping Deledio or losing him and gaining someone like Goddard or seeing him head to a Carlton/Collingwood/Geelong.

Words like natural progression and improvement are all good but who thinks North/Essendon/Fremantle etc aren't going to improve?

 

[YellowandBlackBlood]

I believe we need to make the 8 this year to get a pass mark, not so much from our supporters and the board but externally. Normally external expectations mean little but given free agency kicks in next year, it will be massive. It could mean the difference between keeping Deledio or losing him and gaining someone like Goddard or seeing him head to a Carlton/Collingwood/Geelong.

Words like natural progression and improvement are all good but who thinks North/Essendon/Fremantle etc aren't going to improve?

I think we have come from a lot further behind the teams you have mentioned and Hardwick has not had the benefit of uncompromised drafts which cannot be underestimated. He and Benny Gale have turned the club around in many ways. His job is only partially done. He would be the first to admit that.

I do think all he has to do is show a constant improvement in key areas (many that have been mentioned) as what is the alternative? Do we sack him and start from the beginning AGAIN? Who would replace him? Another rookie coach? Those hanging out for Malthouse can forget it. He will not be coaching us as he has actually stated that privately. I know this for a fact and those who have read my posts over the years know I don't make things up. Of course he may have a change of heart (as I suppose anyone can) but that is not the case currently and we cannot be relying on this to occur.

So those who are putting up higher hurdles than just an improvement will have to come up with a plan of who else they would put in as coach, who they have as assistants etc etc... And these have to be plausible suggestions with likelihoods that are high. Not the usual talk through the back passage.

Fire away all.......

 

[LegendakaRICHO]

when Clarkson took over at the hawks in 05 and started to rebuild the hawks. the first two seasons they finished 14th in 05 (5 wins) then in 2006 they improved a bit and finished 11th (9 wins). that's very similar to our first 2 years with dimma. then in 2007 they made the 8 finishing 5th (13 wins) lost to the kangas in the semis? and a year later finish 2nd (17 wins) and go on and win the premiership within 4 years.


dimmas 2 seasons has resulted in us finishing 15th (6 wins) and 12th (8 wins). and if we improve again this year then no doubt the rfc will be in the eight and playing finals which will begin the era of constant success at the club!

go tigers!

 

[captain blood 17]

I've said it before and i'll say it again, i dont think we will make finals this year. The experience and age of the list will dictate this. There are still gaps on the list, and our overall game development is still being taught.
So even though wins and losses are externally the only score that matters, internally, theres a heap of boxes that have been ticked off, and theres a heap to be ticked off.
Do i personally think we should extend his contract, yes we should. We wont see some of the real fruit of his labour until next year. I'd go a two year extension with clauses, and give him the opportunity to continue to address list needs and improve player development. 2013 is the critical year in my eyes, 2012 not so much.

 

[tiggywigs]

A lot can happen in a season which renders a simple benchmark like "make the eight" redundant.
Especially a season with so many more unknowns than normal (new teams, new coaches, compromised drafts etc).
He will get a pass mark from me if the overall team picture (players, structure, game plan and morale) still points to a crack at the flag in the next five years.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I've said it before and i'll say it again, i dont think we will make finals this year. The experience and age of the list will dictate this. There are still gaps on the list, and our overall game development is still being taught.
So even though wins and losses are externally the only score that matters, internally, theres a heap of boxes that have been ticked off, and theres a heap to be ticked off.
Do i personally think we should extend his contract, yes we should. We wont see some of the real fruit of his labour until next year. I'd go a two year extension with clauses, and give him the opportunity to continue to address list needs and improve player development. 2013 is the critical year in my eyes, 2012 not so much.

I'm of the same opinion here...you need a lot of things to go right to even get near the finals....too many variables...

Player devopment...injuries...the draw...suspensions...upsets....etc...etc...plus you need a little luck to go your way as well...

Dimma should see the tiges making their own luck in '13...

He's aready got a pass mark in my book...

 

[nobulltiger]

The frame of mind by you lot is cowardly, always have the excuses ready. The coach set a pass mark himself when he arrived, finals by 2012! What don't you get with that?

Another 5 years, how many years has another 5 years been going on for now? Come on!!!!! HARDEN UP!

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

The frame of mind by you lot is cowardly, always have the excuses ready. The coach set a pass mark himself when he arrived, finals by 2012! What don't you get with that?

Another 5 years, how many years has another 5 years been going on for now? Come on!!!!! HARDEN UP!

...prefer astute...

 

[santa claws]

when Clarkson took over at the hawks in 05 and started to rebuild the hawks. the first two seasons they finished 14th in 05 (5 wins) then in 2006 they improved a bit and finished 11th (9 wins). that's very similar to our first 2 years with dimma. then in 2007 they made the 8 finishing 5th (13 wins) lost to the kangas in the semis? and a year later finish 2nd (17 wins) and go on and win the premiership within 4 years.


dimmas 2 seasons has resulted in us finishing 15th (6 wins) and 12th (8 wins). and if we improve again this year then no doubt the rfc will be in the eight and playing finals which will begin the era of constant success at the club!

go tigers!

while there are similarities there are chasms in the comparison.ladder position yes it is similar but that is about it.

hawthorns 2005 list had 11 x 100 gamers and about 12 at 50 games. the average age of the list was over 23.

they actually did well out of the 04 draft and 05 drafts clarksons first 2. though one could debate exactly how much or little input he had into the 04 draft.two drafts

richmond under harwick in 2010 had 7 x 100 gamers one of whom was miller a rookie just taken. others included mcmahon gone, simmonds gone, cousins gone, polak gone, and to add to it tambling gone who had played 95 games.
we had about 12 50 plus gamers including tambling gone, morton gone, polo gone, thursfield gone, and battlers jackson, white, mcguane plus moore injuries.
the average age of the list was just over 22yr 100 days.

quite clearly in many important aspects hardwick is starting much further back than clarkson did.
if i had to compare this yr id say we are hawthorn of 2006 with hardwick tracking a good yr behind clarksons pace.

people have to remember clarkson himself said they made finals earlier than expected and won a premiership earlier than expected.

whats a pass mark quite simply continued improvement and turning over of ordinary players.
while finals would be nice it wont neccesarily measure if we pass or not.

personally i think finals highly unlikely for some pretty serious reasons. not to mention depth. age. experience and a scaricity of afl standard players in the 23 and above category. i think clubs around us are better set up in these areas and will improve as well.

 

[theflea]

when Clarkson took over at the hawks in 05 and started to rebuild the hawks. the first two seasons they finished 14th in 05 (5 wins) then in 2006 they improved a bit and finished 11th (9 wins). that's very similar to our first 2 years with dimma. then in 2007 they made the 8 finishing 5th (13 wins) lost to the kangas in the semis? and a year later finish 2nd (17 wins) and go on and win the premiership within 4 years.


dimmas 2 seasons has resulted in us finishing 15th (6 wins) and 12th (8 wins). and if we improve again this year then no doubt the rfc will be in the eight and playing finals which will begin the era of constant success at the club!

go tigers!

there is a factor in that improvement. the cluster was afl genius and afterwards was/has been adopted/improved by the afl as a whole.