List Mgmt. Has our rookie list strategy worked?

[_RT_]

Can you qualify whether or not Shane Edwards, Matt Thomas or Shaun Grigg were still in this side because it's a bullshit theory RT and you know it. Deledio should of been coming in and replacing one of those spuds that week not Arnott.

Grigg had 28 disposals(2nd highest against Hawthorn) 10 marks 0 tackles. Edwards had 20 disposals 3 marks 3 tackles & 1 goal. In what universe is 8 disposal & 9 tackles better than either of those performances? The only one is the one where you have a hatred for said players that overrides anything that they do.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

You are just like an Autistic kid, always taking things way too literally. Where have I ever said that players need to get 6 30 possession games in a row? I have said they need to play 4-6 weeks of good footy. Do that and they show they are playing good consistent footy and deserving of a call up.

Well let's say 25 RT how's that? What's your level? 23 isn't enough apparently or these blokes would be getting games

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Grigg had 28 disposals(2nd highest against Hawthorn) 10 marks 0 tackles. Edwards had 20 disposals 3 marks 3 tackles & 1 goal. In what universe is 8 disposal & 9 tackles better than either of those performances? The only one is the one where you have a hatred for said players that overrides anything that they do.

Neither had an impact on the game and in the previous weeks games before.

I've seen Deledio play many a shocker only to log into dream Team to find out he had 31 touches and over 100 points .

What's your point with all these stats on Grigg and Edwards ? Their entire years have been deplorable .

 

[_RT_]

Well let's say 25 RT how's that? What's your level? 23 isn't enough apparently or these blokes would be getting games

My level is 4-6 weeks of good consistent footy. That means you're doing both the offensive and defensive work that is asked of you by the coaches. It's not that hard a requirement. Doing this shows that you're ready to step up to the next level where these things are needed for the team to perform at it's best.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

My level is 4-6 weeks of good consistent footy. That means you're doing both the offensive and defensive work that is asked of you by the coaches. It's not that hard a requirement. Doing this shows that you're ready to step up to the next level where these things are needed for the team to perform at it's best.

So stats aren't the be all and end all then ? Kind of explains while Griggs 28 against Hawthorn didn't mean he played well that day infact he played like a bucket of shit . He's had one and a half decent quarters against the Lions in round 5 but other than that his year has been so bad. You think I hate him but I personally think it's the coaches fault for giving him a free ride . I think he's a required player and will bounce back if made to earn his spot in the reserves

 

[_RT_]

Neither had an impact on the game and in the previous weeks games before.

I've seen Deledio play many a shocker only to log into dream Team to find out he had 31 touches and over 100 points .

What's your point with all these stats on Grigg and Edwards ? Their entire years have been deplorable .

If they have been deplorable, and the team is 4-10 as a result, imagine how bad things would be if we played kids who weren't capable of putting in the same sort of games. That's why I don't want to make changes for the sake of making changes. I want to make changes only when players have earned their way into the side with good form. That is how we become better, not by simply giving a kid a free ride.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

If they have been deplorable, and the team is 4-10 as a result, imagine how bad things would be if we played kids who weren't capable of putting in the same sort of games. That's why I don't want to make changes for the sake of making changes. I want to make changes only when players have earned their way into the side with good form. That is how we become better, not by simply giving a kid a free ride.

So your saying we give seniors a free ride instead . Very sound theory RT . Great way to build a winning culture

 

[Harmichael]

_RT_ please, just stop.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

_RT_ please, just stop.

I concurr , give this theory a break RT and go back to the drawing board and come back in a week and run a new one by us as to why it's ok we have failed this year and are still handing out games to Grigg Edwards Hampson Thomas Newman And Pettard ( Grimes played his best game for the year last week his second game back from being dropped) so I'll leave him out .

We'll have our first back to back wins this Saturday for the seasons and their will be a smell of finals in the air . See what you can come up with and run it by us next week.

 

[TigerImposter]

There are very few clubs that has everything going absolutely brilliantly in the AFL. Most of those had to deal with a fair bit of pain before their success. Some of them didn't just sack coaches every time something went wrong

There is no doubt we improved over 4 consecutive seasons before this disastrous season. I'm more interested in seeing how we bounce back rather than giving up and starting again.... I've seen how that ends, time and time and time again.

Why is it always every 5 years and us?predictablity is so easy with us and I can't see what changing the coach has anything to do with it. Especially if you're team is categorised as being mediocre by the coach himself
Man U knew they made the wrong choice within a year and moved him on. Why drag the chain if the guy can't work out what's gone wrong this year?
Rookie or not as RD has stated in earlier posts we are a poor side across the board and this mob has had long enough and plenty of money to rectify major issues,but we've been rewarded with wins against bottom sides
You can put Warnie and Murali spin on our list as much as you like, but the buck stops with the coach

 

[TigerImposter]

I concurr , give this theory a break RT and go back to the drawing board and come back in a week and run a new one by us as to why it's ok we have failed this year and are still handing out games to Grigg Edwards Hampson Thomas Newman And Pettard ( Grimes played his best game for the year last week his second game back from being dropped) so I'll leave him out .

We'll have our first back to back wins this Saturday for the seasons and their will be a smell of finals in the air . See what you can come up with and run it by us next week.

I can't wait !A new thread on Tiger BF.

 

[theflea]

Everything out of his mouth and backed up by his results is he's playing the best football of his life and loves it, he won't retire.

I hope he does go on, but we had to convince him to play this year, which was why I get the impression he will retire.

 

[_RT_]

So your saying we give seniors a free ride instead . Very sound theory RT . Great way to build a winning culture

No I'm saying that if we're going to replace under performing senior players with players from the VFL let it be those that played some good consistent footy rather than rewarding those who are performing poorer than the players that they are replacing. But yeah lets just go with your smart way of improving the culture of the club.

 

[theflea]

Last year Arnot was seen as one of our upcoming mids.

Since when were possessions the reason players are dropped etc?

I always saw in him as a defensive fwd, not a mid.

 

[nut]

Imagine the outcry if that happened, the same blokes who enjoy ripping into Hampson would be going even harder for giving up a second round pick for him and then no doubt the same people would be whinging about why we're not playing a kid in the role instead of going with someone who had little long term benefit.

No the same people would rejoice because we would have some one in the side that could compete around the ground... unlike Hampson.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

No I'm saying that if we're going to replace under performing senior players with players from the VFL let it be those that played some good consistent footy rather than rewarding those who are performing poorer than the players that they are replacing. But yeah lets just go with your smart way of improving the culture of the club.

So you've flip flopped again. You've been saying we are better off playing non performing senior players until the kids put together 4-6 good games together that is not building a good culture . Anyway let's give it a rest. You can go back and read all our past posts and find another angle . I'll judge this team and Hardwick on their actual performances this year not the VFL sides.

 

[DrMike]

No I'm saying that if we're going to replace under performing senior players with players from the VFL let it be those that played some good consistent footy rather than rewarding those who are performing poorer than the players that they are replacing. But yeah lets just go with your smart way of improving the culture of the club.

I know what you're saying, but you're arguing against people using emotion to back their argument, don't resort to the same.

Good consistent footy at VFL level means they're ready to experience AFL level, it doesn't mean they're going to play every game at AFL level. Then you have to take into consideration their physical state, what's their stamina like, how's their body holding up, their psychological state, their attitude, have they identified deficiencies they need to work on. As a result they might go back to VFL for a lower paced game to ensure their body is right. Arnot is the perfect example here with his back, played a couple of games but you could he was struggling with fitness after barely getting a preseason in. From all reports he's in a great place for getting selected if someone in his role doesn't perform well.

O'Hanlon had severe deficiencies he needed to work on and he's in a really good place, as was said earlier he was emergency on the weekend.
Lennon didn't contribute enough in seniors but probably understands how much he has to work on in VFL, the experience will be good for him.
Lloyd has attitude issues, needs to resolve those and make it up to the team before he gets a game.
Gordon played great as sub but faded out, currently working on getting himself back into good form.
McBean is no way near ready after injuries and his physical shape.
Elton is going really well but needs to impact the scoreboard more when he's given the chance if he wants to play forward, he's getting better with age.
Helbig is a hard one but people seem to have written him off, wasn't named anywhere on the weekend, papers could be stamped which is a shame.
McDonough went back to VFL and hasn't performed well but he's getting more experience in the guts which is great for his development.

Griffiths, injured, not performing in seniors.
McIntosh, injured, not doing enough in VFL but he's got plenty of opportunity.

Who else have a missed? I honestly don't see what people are complaining about with the "kids" playing VFL, other than a few (which happens at every club) they're coming along fine.

 

[_RT_]

I know what you're saying, but you're arguing against people using emotion to back their argument, don't resort to the same.

I just don't get how people can argue that rewarding kids without good form as the basis for rewarding them is the way go, while at the same time say that we shouldn't be rewarding players who, in their opinion, aren't performing in the senior side. You want to play the kids, make them earn it by performing better than the players you want them to replace. That is how you get better as a side, not by handing out games to kids who aren't.

 

[Deanos]

I know what you're saying, but you're arguing against people using emotion to back their argument, don't resort to the same.

Good consistent footy at VFL level means they're ready to experience AFL level, it doesn't mean they're going to play every game at AFL level. Then you have to take into consideration their physical state, what's their stamina like, how's their body holding up, their psychological state, their attitude, have they identified deficiencies they need to work on. As a result they might go back to VFL for a lower paced game to ensure their body is right. Arnot is the perfect example here with his back, played a couple of games but you could he was struggling with fitness after barely getting a preseason in. From all reports he's in a great place for getting selected if someone in his role doesn't perform well.

O'Hanlon had severe deficiencies he needed to work on and he's in a really good place, as was said earlier he was emergency on the weekend.
Lennon didn't contribute enough in seniors but probably understands how much he has to work on in VFL, the experience will be good for him.
Lloyd has attitude issues, needs to resolve those and make it up to the team before he gets a game.
Gordon played great as sub but faded out, currently working on getting himself back into good form.
McBean is no way near ready after injuries and his physical shape.
Elton is going really well but needs to impact the scoreboard more when he's given the chance if he wants to play forward, he's getting better with age.
Helbig is a hard one but people seem to have written him off, wasn't named anywhere on the weekend, papers could be stamped which is a shame.
McDonough went back to VFL and hasn't performed well but he's getting more experience in the guts which is great for his development.

Griffiths, injured, not performing in seniors.
McIntosh, injured, not doing enough in VFL but he's got plenty of opportunity.

Who else have a missed? I honestly don't see what people are complaining about with the "kids" playing VFL, other than a few (which happens at every club) they're coming along fine.

Shame O'Hanlon was the carry over emergency on the weekend because i reckon he would have been very close to selection this week.

This interesting as RodneyDangerfield thought quite the opposite after he went to some clinic:

You nailed it there.
There are spots there like you say. What an opportunity!
But none are grabbing it. That's so disappointing.
On the blokes you mentioned at that kids thing today a kid asked Lloyd when he'd play again.
Said he was really close last week and hoped for this week but didn't think he really grabbed the chance last week.
Then said he really needs to play well and kick goals from week to week in the VFL to prove his worth and then he will get a crack.
Was good to hear his attitude.

 

[DrMike]

I just don't get how people can argue that rewarding kids without good form as the basis for rewarding them is the way go, while at the same time say that we shouldn't be rewarding players who, in their opinion, aren't performing in the senior side. You want to play the kids, make them earn it by performing better than the players you want them to replace. That is how you get better as a side, not by handing out games to kids who aren't.

We shouldn't be rewarding players that aren't performing, that's why we do have these backup players like Thomas and Petterd as stop gaps until these players are ready. We've been making the same argument for years. Our list just isn't mature enough yet for us to do without these players.

Shame O'Hanlon was the carry over emergency on the weekend because i reckon he would have been very close to selection this week.

This interesting as RodneyDangerfield thought quite the opposite after he went to some clinic:

I don't expect players to say anything different but it's great that he has a good understand of things, so maybe he's worked on his problems and now just needs to back it up with consistent VFL performance. All I'd say is how can you trust a player on the field if you don't trust them off the field first.

 

[Goldust]

Not rocket science in my opinion ..... when your best in a 44 point VFL loss reads E. Barlow, D. Jackson, N. Wynne, T. Banfield, O. Stephenson, J. Wall ... it's obvious D. Jackson will come in this week and no other senior listed player will get anywhere near it. IMO it's up to ressies players to belt the door down. I think there are possible exceptions ... with kids like Bontempelli, Kelly, Aish, Billings, Kade Kolodjashnij, Salem, McDonald, Merrett etc. doing great things we should be fast tracking him, especially against the likes of St Kilda and Brisbane, while Lloyd should not have been dropped after one ordinary game (albeit he hasn't done a thing since to press for a recall).
Fact is we are promoting players who deserve it as Miles, Dea and Batchelor have shown in recent weeks.
Thomas is neither here nor there .... but I wish a seconds player put his hand up to replace him with two or three convincing performances.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Not rocket science in my opinion ..... when your best in a 44 point VFL loss reads E. Barlow, D. Jackson, N. Wynne, T. Banfield, O. Stephenson, J. Wall ... it's obvious D. Jackson will come in this week and no other senior listed player will get anywhere near it. IMO it's up to ressies players to belt the door down. I think there are possible exceptions ... with kids like Bontempelli, Kelly, Aish, Billings, Kade Kolodjashnij, Salem, McDonald, Merrett etc. doing great things we should be fast tracking him, especially against the likes of St Kilda and Brisbane, while Lloyd should not have been dropped after one ordinary game (albeit he hasn't done a thing since to press for a recall).
Fact is we are promoting players who deserve it as Miles, Dea and Batchelor have shown in recent weeks.
Thomas is neither here nor there .... but I wish a seconds player put his hand up to replace him with two or three convincing performances.

Bravo.
I don't see why it's so hard to comprehend.

 

[tigs2010]

What will piss me off is if we re-sign Arnot when it's clear we don't rate him. We are notorious for hanging onto blokes way too long.

 

[Deanos]

Not rocket science in my opinion ..... when your best in a 44 point VFL loss reads E. Barlow, D. Jackson, N. Wynne, T. Banfield, O. Stephenson, J. Wall ... it's obvious D. Jackson will come in this week and no other senior listed player will get anywhere near it. IMO it's up to ressies players to belt the door down. I think there are possible exceptions ... with kids like Bontempelli, Kelly, Aish, Billings, Kade Kolodjashnij, Salem, McDonald, Merrett etc. doing great things we should be fast tracking him, especially against the likes of St Kilda and Brisbane, while Lloyd should not have been dropped after one ordinary game (albeit he hasn't done a thing since to press for a recall).
Fact is we are promoting players who deserve it as Miles, Dea and Batchelor have shown in recent weeks.
Thomas is neither here nor there .... but I wish a seconds player put his hand up to replace him with two or three convincing performances.

Who ever wrote those bests for the VFL website should lose their job:

James Wall: 8 disposals at 87% DE (7 handballs), all 8 disposals were uncontested. 3 marks and 5 tackles............does not make the bests.

Ed Barlow: 16 disposals at 81% DE (12 of those disposals are uncontested), 4 marks 2 tackles...............does not make the bests

Todd Banfield: 11 disposals at 72% DE (7 of those disposals uncontested), 2 goals 3 marks and 7 tackles...............just makes the bests.

The rest are correct:

Orren Stephenson: 14 disposals at 92% DE, 2 goals 21 hitouts 7 marks 3 clearances 4 tackles

Daniel Jackson: 23 disposals at only 56% DE (11 contested), 2 marks 9 Clearances 3 tackles

Nick Wynne: 22 disposals at 72% DE (7 contested), 4 marks 1 Clearances 3 tackles. (Off half back)

How these blokes weren't named in the best is beyond me:

Matt Arnot: 29 disposals at 79% DE, 1 goal 1 behind 5 marks 4 clearances 4 tackles

Sam Lloyd: 20 disposals at only 50% DE (11 Contested and 13 kicks), 2 goals 7 marks 3 clearances 1 tackle

Ben Lennon: 25 disposals at only 52% DE (10 contested and 19 Kicks), 1 goal 1 behind 6 marks 3 clearances 1 hitout 2 tackles

 

[TigerImposter]

Not rocket science in my opinion ..... when your best in a 44 point VFL loss reads E. Barlow, D. Jackson, N. Wynne, T. Banfield, O. Stephenson, J. Wall ... it's obvious D. Jackson will come in this week and no other senior listed player will get anywhere near it. IMO it's up to ressies players to belt the door down. I think there are possible exceptions ... with kids like Bontempelli, Kelly, Aish, Billings, Kade Kolodjashnij, Salem, McDonald, Merrett etc. doing great things we should be fast tracking him, especially against the likes of St Kilda and Brisbane, while Lloyd should not have been dropped after one ordinary game (albeit he hasn't done a thing since to press for a recall).
Fact is we are promoting players who deserve it as Miles, Dea and Batchelor have shown in recent weeks.
Thomas is neither here nor there .... but I wish a seconds player put his hand up to replace him with two or three convincing performances.

Then why is it that our seniors have failed us again ?So youre telling me Sheds,Newman Grigg,Houli and Thomas will absolutely dominate in the twos around all the stop gap players (non rfc)and rookies and the so called not ready rfc young guys.Jackson got 23possies at 56% as usual his DE was low.
If we go in with the same retreads and Golden oldies at the start of 2015 we may as well kiss another 10 million bucks of members money into space as its not rocket science that they are not up to the standard required to be a finals team and the Spudwick moon launch could take place from PRO.
This would be a shame as we had the opportunty to fast track our list from last week.