Have the Crows gone past Carlton?

[White Dogg]

Crows started rebuilding in 2020. Carlton started rebuilding in 2015. Yet it feels like the Crows have gone past Carlton in their rebuild.

Do you think the Crows have gone past Carlton in their rebuild?

 

[LoBu]

Crows started rebuilding in 2020. Carlton started rebuilding in 2015. Yet it feels like the Crows have gone past Carlton in their rebuild.

Do you think the Crows have gone past Carlton in their rebuild?

Epic trolling of Carlton fans, but true, nonetheless.

For Carlton to be successful, they need to rebuild the club internally. The players are high quality, list management good, coaches probably good too. Board members run the club like a suburban club still.

 

[Mofra]

Is it really a fair comparison when Adelaide properly committed to a rebuild, while Carlton tried to short-cut it with expensive flankers (McGovern, Martin, Williams, Saad) which cost the draft capital and cap space?

Adelaide are also an excellent pressure side (maybe the Vic media will wake up to it soon). I actually picked the to make the finals and copped a little blowback, I still thinks the Crows will get there.

 

[jakson68]

Right now, the names on the list says Carlton are better.
Watching games with my own eyes, tells me different.

Adelaide are exciting and the future looks good with their youth.

Carlton have loaded up over the past few years, trying to buy a flag.
Sadly for them, they are running out of time for this to occur.

If Carlton don't win it in the next couple of years, they may be in for another decade of pain.
They seem to lack chemistry.

I honestly thought they would be up pressing for top 4 this year.
Then again, I though Collingwood may miss the 8.

Shows I am a poor judge.

 

[BM123]

Is it really a fair comparison when Adelaide properly committed to a rebuild, while Carlton tried to short-cut it with expensive flankers (McGovern, Martin, Williams, Saad) which cost the draft capital and cap space?

Adelaide are also an excellent pressure side (maybe the Vic media will wake up to it soon). I actually picked the to make the finals and copped a little blowback, I still thinks the Crows will get there.

Carlton cutting corners? No idea what you are talking about....

 

[Cleric]

After the President's comment about it not being such a big deal if they miss the finals, I think they lack the drive at the club to succeed.
The amount of high draft picks and bug recruits that have gone into building this team over the last 6 or so years is incredible.
They should be playing off in GFs now.

 

[NetworkNerd]

Is it a rebuild where your best forward and 2 best mids from your previous grand final appearance are still there? ie: reset not rebuild

 

[Soggy2112]

Is it a rebuild where your best forward and 2 best mids from your previous grand final appearance are still there? ie: reset not rebuild

Weird argument.

Players remaining from 2017:

Matt Crouch (played one quarter this season)
Rory Sloane
Paul Seedsman (hasn’t played for a year due to concussion issues)
Taylor Walker
Rory Laird (was a defender then)
Wayne Milera (had played 24 games at that point)
Brodie Smith
Tom Doedee (had not played a game yet)
Reilly O’Brien (had played 2 games at that point)

9 players remaining from the 2017 list, of that group, 6 were regular best 22 selections in 2017 (arguably 5, Seedsman probably doesn’t play if Smith doesn’t rupture his ACL). Of that group, 4 remain best 22.

 

[doppleganger]

Is it a rebuild where your best forward and 2 best mids from your previous grand final appearance are still there? ie: reset not rebuild

Carlton's 2016 best and fairest top3 included Docherty and Cripps.

Because they were both top3 in the Baggers 2022 BnF again does that mean Carlton never rebuilt?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Is it really a fair comparison when Adelaide properly committed to a rebuild, while Carlton tried to short-cut it with expensive flankers (McGovern, Martin, Williams, Saad) which cost the draft capital and cap space?

Adelaide are also an excellent pressure side (maybe the Vic media will wake up to it soon). I actually picked the to make the finals and copped a little blowback, I still thinks the Crows will get there.

You’re a little confused between good recruiting and types of recruiting/strategies. What we thought we were getting with Gov and Martin are the exact thing that we need right now. Saad has been brilliant and Williams a disaster, although if we had him atm teams locking down on Saad wouldn’t hurt us anywhere near as much.
Adelaide’s big recruits were a wingman and a forward pocket. They have both been incredible.
Funnily enough we tried to turn Williams into a mid which didn’t work while Dawson did.

 

[Fadge]

Funnily enough we tried to turn Williams into a mid which didn’t work while Dawson did.

Isn't that a combination of talent identification and development, two things that Carlton have been historically poor at?

 

[Golumless]

Is it a rebuild where your best forward and 2 best mids from your previous grand final appearance are still there? ie: reset not rebuild

Rebuilds don't require to be failed.

 

[adammania9]

One of the most impressive rebuilds in recent years given how awful their list was in 2020

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Isn't that a combination of talent identification and development, two things that Carlton have been historically poor at?

Exactly. You can chase whatever types you want but if you don’t get the right ones it means nothing. All of Williams, Gov, Martin and Saad are types we need. They just haven’t performed as expected
Anyone who watches Carlton would know we desperately need players like what Gov and Martin could have possibly become.

Strategically the biggest mistake we have made is not chasing “gut” running mids. KP depth is abit of a problem but we could manage ok if other areas were stronger.

 

[1970crow]

One of the most impressive rebuilds in recent years given how awful their list was in 2020

It wasn’t that bad. The players we lost were either cooked or fringe/role players. From our GF defensive group we had Talia, Hartigan, Laird, Smith, Brown and Kelly. Midfield had 2 crouch’s and Sloane plus Gibbs was added. Wings were intact with Seedsman, Mackay and Atkins still around. Forward line was hit a bit with only Tex and Lynch remaining. But we had some young early picks added like Fogarty, Jones, Milera, McHenry and added a couple of mid agers like McAdam and Keays.

More mindset and coaching that resulted in the huge drop off between 2019 and 2020.

 

[bradfisher14]

Definitely having a better 2023 than Carlton. I still rate our long term prospects higher than theirs though. Don't think they have the required talent to challenge for a flag.

 

[1990crow]

Football is a fickle game. Things could be different in 2 games time let alone 2 years.
Melbourne crashed and burned before drafting Jackson and Pickett to rocket to the 2021 flag.

Personally I think the Blues should look to offload one of these big contracts and get some depth.
McKay would be the one I would let go. Get a top pick, spread the salary over a couple of recruits and rejuvenate the list. Could catapult Carlton within 2 years back up.

 

[PieLebo87]

Crows have gone past a lot of sides.

They’re still an incredibly underrated team with possibly the best forward line in the competition.

When you’ve got guys who are 23 and younger like Fogerty, Thilthorpe, Rankine, Pedlar, Schoenberg, Soligo, Rachele, Jones, Butts and McHenry, you’re in a bloody good position. At least 2-3 of these will be top 10-15 in the competition at any one period of time over the next 5-10 years.

 

[PieLebo87]

Football is a fickle game. Things could be different in 2 games time let alone 2 years.
Melbourne crashed and burned before drafting Jackson and Pickett to rocket to the 2021 flag.

Personally I think the Blues should look to offload one of these big contracts and get some depth.
McKay would be the one I would let go. Get a top pick, spread the salary over a couple of recruits and rejuvenate the list. Could catapult Carlton within 2 years back up.

I agree with this, but the only part I don’t is getting rid of McKay.

You simply don’t trade out KPFs who have won a Coleman. If there is anyone you are trading out which will be controversial, it’s Paddy Cripps.

Would send shockwaves through the competition, but when you’ve got Hewett, Walsh, Kennedy and Cerra, you’ll land on your feet, particularly when they’re feeding a Curnow AND McKay which will trouble any defence.

Crippa’s contract will alleviate pressure of their cap, allow them to re-sign TDK, and possibly bring in another quality winger.

 

[1990crow]

Crows have gone past a lot of sides.

They’re still an incredibly underrated team with possibly the best forward line in the competition.

When you’ve got guys who are 23 and younger like Fogerty, Thilthorpe, Rankine, Pedlar, Schoenberg, Soligo, Rachele, Jones, Butts and McHenry, you’re in a bloody good position. At least 2-3 of these will be top 10-15 in the competition at any one period of time over the next 5-10 years.

Schoenberg is looking like a bust right now and McHenry appears to be a sub or best 23-26 type.

It's probably moreso the unsung players lifting who have made a difference like Murphy, Hinge, Sholl, Keays and Murray.

But yes, pretty happy with the youth coming through. The crows will need to add to the list this offseason though to take that next step.

 

[Crow till I die]

Crows have gone past a lot of sides.

They’re still an incredibly underrated team with possibly the best forward line in the competition.

When you’ve got guys who are 23 and younger like Fogerty, Thilthorpe, Rankine, Pedlar, Schoenberg, Soligo, Rachele, Jones, Butts and McHenry, you’re in a bloody good position. At least 2-3 of these will be top 10-15 in the competition at any one period of time over the next 5-10 years.

It looks promising but an area that i think we have found some real diamonds in is our defence. Murray has come on in leaps and bounds and as a key back is tough as teak, is no slouch and can really roost the ball. Butts is another that is developing nicely and looks to be the long term talia replacement.

Then we have michalanney whom i saw playing school footy a few years back and saw his talent and wow has he taken to AFL footy like a duck to water...super super prospect. Then guys like doedee as the interceptor and hinge who can play on short or taller opponents and parnell and milera add drive and a bit of flair.

It to my mind is the unheralded part of our team but it looks good to my eye going forward

 

[Rotayjay]

Ask me when the minor rounds finish.

 

[VinnieB]

Is it a rebuild where your best forward and 2 best mids from your previous grand final appearance are still there? ie: reset not rebuild

Typical sore Hawk fan.
Fact is the Adelaide kids are much better than that of Hawthorn and North. And they seem to get better each week. They are driving this team up the ladder.

 

[Rich01]

Lots of people potting Carlton atm.

Their list has holes but they are proactively working to address them.

They still have a core of superstars, a bank of solid citizens but from there it drops off.

They always seem one or two injuries away from disaster which suggests poor depth.

Their form compared to what they promised after last year is disappointing but that talent doesn’t just disappear. Questions should be asked on why they aren’t performing to potential, which could still be player culture driven, or it could be the coaching team.

As for thr Crows, what a great resurgence. Their kids look great but all credit to the coach. Was he on shaky ground last year? If so, further shows why we shouldn’t believe these afl media driven narratives.

 

[Gw2_James]

I agree with this, but the only part I don’t is getting rid of McKay.

You simply don’t trade out KPFs who have won a Coleman. If there is anyone you are trading out which will be controversial, it’s Paddy Cripps.

Would send shockwaves through the competition, but when you’ve got Hewett, Walsh, Kennedy and Cerra, you’ll land on your feet, particularly when they’re feeding a Curnow AND McKay which will trouble any defence.

Crippa’s contract will alleviate pressure of their cap, allow them to re-sign TDK, and possibly bring in another quality winger.

Many carlton fans will hate this, but i reckon you are spot on. I'd happily trade cripps if the right offer came along. Like you said, we have players like him, hes elite yes, but hes slow, and were a very slow team, think we would be better suited to draft or trade for a speedy midfielder.