Review Hawks v Cats Match post mortem ...

[Dollars Inc]

I'm glad to see there is some optimism and not too much using ropey umpiring as a crutch, but I can't cop the "we pushed the premiers" line.

Should have won it. The guys didn't look to me like they thought they'd win it; they were waiting for Geelong to take it from them. And Geelong obliged.

Some guys had awful days; Mooney pantsed Gillam, Schoey was a mixed bag, Ellis was unobtrusive, and Buddy needs to lead a LOT more.

Grizzly's boy Morton was solid and Petersen continued on with his good form.

And we looked less fit than Geelong. 9 day break indeed.

Nine day break, seasoned bodies.

Cats the last two weeks have shown why they will still be a force. When the game is there to be won, they win it. Our kids not quite there yet. We can blmae the umpiring, which I do to a point but reality is we are mid range in the 16 team comp and are living proof we are a developing team who all clicked in 08. Our best years are ahead.

 

[crawf_legend]

Re: Hawks v Cats Match Review ...

Obviously i am not a coach. Nor have i claimed to be. But it is a well known fact that GEE had a very late pre-season to try to keep its veterans list (which is now more or less its list period) fresh for the latter part of the season. It is a reasonable assumption that that means GEE will not be at its best early in the season. I would assume the club would be happy with with a 4-2 win loss scenario come Rd 6. Winning against a potential top 4 sides like Hawthorn who have had a full pre-season and are hungry is a very big TICK for us.

All the best for the rest of the season. I'm sure the Hawks will be there or thereabouts in 2010.

You said 'in fact, GFC are expecting to lose' in your first post.. to me you stated that as being a fact and thats why I disagreed strongly with you. I personally think Geelong arent underdone. I honestly expected them to come out and win comfortably over us today by around 20-30 points. I dont think they were rusty at all, I think they fell asleep in the first half, couldnt get it together, it happens.

 

[moginie]

Everyone agrees that we were ordinary last year and gonna be better in '10.

Question then.

So why was last year's effort against the Cats(premiers) in Round 17 (with a heap more players out) better than todays?

Simple. Four words.

Two ruckmen

Brad Sewell

Now reading the comments on giving Grimley a go - I'd be VERY cautious at putting him anywhere except the centre bounces. It's all very well to say we've got to have someone there, but we don't have anyone. Look at how Blake & Ottens leant into Renouf when rucking around the ground - at one point in the last quarter Ottens simply pushed Renouf out of the contest. They'd do exactly the same to a kid who's 86kgs & tell me, what would we gain? Unfortunately, we've got to keep Grimley in cotton wool in case of the absolutely unthinkable.

 

[Autopilot]

Re: Hawks v Cats Match Review ...

In the last half we had 2-3 extra players contesting the rucks. Every time this happened this left 2 extra cat players around the packs to clean up. Then extra players had to commit to the stoppage contest thus creating what looked to be so many free Geelong players either on the wings or on the inner edge of the centre square.
This cost us momentum and goals. We were killed in the stoppages in the second half!
As tired as Renouf was he should have contested the ruck on his own and we should have adjusted our style of play to feed of the rucking conditions or atleast try to smother their free style running game!
We were never going to win with so many players committed in the air during stoppages!
There was nothing wrong with our commitment and game plan, but with the ball coming out of the stopages so quickly and often im surprised we only lost by 9 points!

 

[Hawkforce]

Sheez what does Tom Murphy have to do to get some credit from some people. Ablett, Stevie J, Byrnes for a period - took on everyone and kept them quiet. Great defensive game.

Shiels - almost won it for us in the last. Certainly kept us in it with Mitch and Hodge anonymous late.

 

[Brant]

Re: Hawks v Cats Match Review ...

In the last half we had 2-3 extra players contesting the rucks. Every time this happened this left 2 extra cat players around the packs to clean up. Then extra players had to commit to the stoppage contest thus creating what looked to be so many free Geelong players either on the wings or on the inner edge of the centre square.
This cost us momentum and goals. We were killed in the stoppages in the second half!
As tired as Renouf was he should have contested the ruck on his own and we should have adjusted our style of play to feed of the rucking conditions or atleast try to smother their free style running game!
We were never going to win with so many players committed in the air during stoppages!
There was nothing wrong with our commitment and game plan, but with the ball coming out of the stopages so quickly and often im surprised we only lost by 9 points!

Good post & very intersting interpretation on the issue mate.

I actually agree & think you to be correct, at least in identifying part of the issue. With the number of players around the ball at stoppages these days - our 2nd & 3rd men up mean that we have 2 or 3 less players left on the ground.

We either need a designated '3rd man up' or we need to (like u suggest) accept that we will lose the tap & adapt to it.

 

[Autopilot]

Re: Hawks v Cats Match Review ...

Im actually surprised that the coaching staff did not identify this issue.

 

[eldorado]

Missed a second ruck badly, missed Sewell almost as badly. Slaughtered in clearances from about 10 minutes into the second quarter.

Poor kicking out hurt us, lack of height at the back and inability to spoil also, but from the start of the third it was obvious that their domination at stoppages was going to be the main factor. When the mids were able to put pressure, we were able to spoil (most) bombed inside 50s. When they had it all their own way in the middle for the first 10 minutes of the third, it really looked like we could get squashed in the second half. To our credit, we made it hard for them in contests, but the missing second ruck, and strong bodied Sewell meant we were chasing a lot of the ball in the second half...which led to fatigue as well.

Not devastated, not happy with an honourable loss either. In a sort of emotional limbo, I guess.

Come back Greg

 

[thebiff]

Wow very suprised people are having a crack at buddys performance. I thought he was actually quite good, easily a pass. Would have struggled without him down there today.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Because of the loss, unfortunately we have some supporters downgrading some of the players' efforts today. Especially our defence.

I thought most played a decent game if not brilliant. I thought Gilham was beaten too many times one on one and this was more to do with his timing of his leaps/punch and his positioning. For me, he was the weakest link in defence today. The coaching staff had to shift him around all day. But Gilham is better than that and he just had an off day.

The Shoe is coming along very nicely and he is eradicating his errors to a bare minimum nowadays. Don't hang him for the kick to the open side. Had that come off, we may have waltz upfield and kicked an easy goal. I think he was being proactive and we should never criticise any player for being fearless of making a mistake. You don't win games playing safe.

I thought Gibson was very good and definately put the clamps on Mooney when he was switched to him later in teh game. In the lead up to the game, I was hoping Gibson would take Mooney. Pity that wasn't the case.

We lost on the scoreboard today, but we are back on track.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Umpires ridiculous decision in the last quarter hurt us, but don’t be fooled we had our opportunity to win the game and didn’t take it. I’m proud of the Hawks Men effort and heart. I think the cats are ahead of us in preparation of fitness, but that’s not a great concern as we are not far behind and it is after all only the second game of the year. GO HAWKAS!

 

[spikers]

Last year Rnd 2 was against the Swans and Renouf was COMPLETELY done over by Jolly - roll on a year and whilst Geelong won the hit-outs Renouf's performance was SO much better. Losing Hooper so early in the game certainly hurt - I know Geelong lost Motlop - but Junior & Bateman clearly lacked match practice and our rotations were stuffed (and I gather it was quite a warm day, which would not have helped). Always disappointing to lose, and heart-breaking when having lead for most of the day, however when I compare our situation to last year and the way the team played yesterday I think the Hawks are in a really good position. If we can just get one win over the next two weeks and be 2/2 after playing 3 of the 4 top teams from last year this will put us in a great position to tackle some of the lower teams before we hit our next 'hard run' (not that any game is easy, just some are easier than others).

 

[Jaworskyj 1971]

Just thought of something else,we can't seriously consider ourselves as premiership contenders (i.e a club that can afford to trade away early draft picks to address a couple of perceived deficiencies) with our backline in it's current form.Either Hodge needs to go back to being loose accross that HB line as he was a couple of seasons back ,or Gibson has to step up and really take up a leadership role back there with Guerra and Ladson.Gilham and Shoey need to show that they are capable of taking on and matching the real power forwards in the comp.To get through the full ground zoning that goes on in 2010 the kicks need to accurate, low and fast coming out of defense this is not one of Shoey's strong points at this point in time and he should be aware of this and not attempt to do things he is not capable of.
We are a good side but we went into the draft and trade week as if we were in premiership contention ,with the backline as it is that won't be the case not to mention our lack of ruckman.

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

umps did not help running out of legs did not help and losing key players did not help !! don't go blaming fitness staff i saw lewis go down infront of me and hodge to the side of me those things happen and fitness staff can not do anything to stop that from happening , the young ones are getting better and we lasted longer before running out of legs it was a very physical running game ! they could rotate more then us which helped them !!

 

[Dewwwww]

Quite Dissapointing yesterday, cant blame the umpires as we just ran out of legs as simple as that!! Really missed a 2nd ruckman and Sewell as he is usually our best player against the cats with his clearance work in the middle!! The next 2 weeks are cruicial and if we can win one of those and be 2-2 coming into rd5 against the Roos id be very happy with that! Get Young and Sewell back for the game against the Roos and Burger a week or two after that and if we can keep up with the pack until the midway point of the season, i really think we can come home strong! We will get a 2nd ruck back and have Burgoyne/Young/Sewell/Rioli back in full fitness and think top4 is not out of question!

 

[gibbo#1]

Re: Hawks v Cats Match Review ...

Why Buddy starts his leads from 45m out i'll never know.

i know why not have him 1 out in the goal sqaure. plus he never stars infront of his man. his always behind and thats why he never gets free kicks.

 

[gibbo#1]

Re: Hawks v Cats Match Review ...

our kick ins yesti cost us the game. we couldnt get it out of our defence. Josh Gibson has the best kick in the hawks defence and he doesnt take the kick ins! wtf?
he took 1 kick in yesti and hit bateman with a 55 meter kick. i dont recon lason and sheoy should be taking the kick ins. clarko use gibson as a weapon just like harry o brein and let him run and carry the ball out of defence. he has the skill and the speed to do that.

 

[Hawkers]

It was mistakes that cost us the game, some by umpires but loads by us.
I do know, though, that we have a lot more room for improvement than Geelong and that we're a better chance to win the flag this year than them

After the game I was reminded of our game against them in round 17 2008 where it was our mistakes that lost us the game, they didn't win it; exactly like this game

Make no mistake, they don't want to play us again in the finals

 

[Dewwwww]

Also why didnt Buddy kick more than 2 goals yesterday? No Disrespect to Lonergan but Lonergan is an absolute spud!! He wouldnt get a game in the Box hill reserves and to think he outperformed Franklin yesterday really disappoints me!! Im hoping the Franklin we saw in rd1 of the NAB cup turns up next week !!

 

[DanA]

MY thoughts on the game:

1. Ruckmen without a doubt was the number 1 factor in deciding the game. I think Roughhead needs to spend 20-30 minutes a game there.
2. Ling started on Hodge but moved to Mitchell after half time which effected his output significantly.
3. Kickouts, why is anyone other than Guerra taking them? and why are you kicking to young inexperienced players in the pocket. Surely you're better served putting a player like Hodge, Birchell, Ladson or Sewell there if you're going to use that as an outlet so often.
4. Didn't do enough to isolate Lonergan, Buddy and Roughhead ripped him apart in the 1st quarter and then Hawks didn't really take advantage after that.
5. Umpiring crucified you. I thought they were generally correct but a few critical ones went Geelong's way close to goal which were dubios.



I think if you can get the ruck situtation sorted before finals you'll be as big a chance as anyone.

 

[The Kipster]

1) When Buddy was well-held, AC should of thrown him into the middle to contest the ruck IMO...

2) Murphy turned the ball over, time and time again (what is with the lollipop kicks)

3) Morton needs to stay in the best 22, in order to find his feet at senior level

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Every time we lose, are we going to keep hearing the reason we lost is ruckmen? Because if we do, it's pointless discussing the game.

So many other reasons we lost that game and yet all people want to talk about is bloody ruckmen

 

[La Vache]

We were treading water for about 20 minutes at the end of the game. We are really missing that "out" in the closing stages where a player runs and runs to receive a thirty metre pass to get us out of danger. Otherwise we get pinned in our 50 and end up kicking to 50/50's or 2 on 1's and that is what happened yesterday.

Birchall and Changa were stuffed by this stage and Lewis was off. I believe the onus falls on Franklin and Morton here to run like buggery and give a 30 - 50 metre option down the line as both have the tank and the one on one ability to win these contests if the kick isn't perfect. Neither offered so much as one hard lead to defensive space and were standing around waiting for something to happen all quarter and it killed us.

Overall I think both were servicable yesterday but I do not believe either would have finished the game as wrecked as so many of our other blokes

 

[The Kipster]

. I believe the onus falls on Franklin and Morton here to run like buggery and give a 30 - 50 metre option down the line as both have the tank and the one on one ability to win these contests if the kick isn't perfect. Neither offered so much as one hard lead to defensive space and were standing around waiting for something to happen all quarter and it killed us.

Overall I think both were servicable yesterday but I do not believe either would have finished the game as wrecked as so many of our other blokes

good post LV, this is the point I was making about Buddy, AC needs to throw him into the middle from time to time and especially when he is being well held...this breaks his tag and gives him a chance to have a run and use his tank

 

[Dollars Inc]

It looks to the passive observer that franklin is xpecting all the bow before him. Complaining to teammates for not kicking to him, whinging for free kicks. What happened to kid who threw himself at everything and played like a 6'6 rover sweeping up loose balls like his life depended on it.