Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Okay just for clarity - in all the stuff that has surfaced so far, what has Fages allegedly done?
I'm not being provocative - just searching for explicit detail.
I don't recall any words or racist actions being attributed to him specifically other than being named as being with Clarko when they allegedly went to an accusers house to help him pack.
What detail do we know about Fages, given that the Newbold emails are really an issue for him to explain, not Fages.

Being complicit in pressuring first nations players into separating from partners, abortions, etc.

 

[irel]

Being complicit in pressuring first nations players into separating from partners, abortions, etc.

...and behaving like a Russian Mafioso (I declare I am ignorant of Russian Mafioso’s behaviors)

 

[T Rick]

Being complicit in pressuring first nations players into separating from partners, abortions, etc.

How so?

 

[BrisVegasDru]

...and behaving like a Russian Mafioso (I declare I am ignorant of Russian Mafioso’s behaviors)

Have read up on them- think Big Footy Clique - terrible stuff!

 

[T Rick]

...and behaving like a Russian Mafioso (I declare I am ignorant of Russian Mafioso’s behaviors)

Certainly sounds like Fages doesn't it

 

[Sausages]

western royboy dlanod

To be fair BrizzyBandit western royboy was responding to my questions/speculation directly, so in relation to our discussion, his speculative post has context, as opposed to simply being an opinion.

I hope that helps

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Seems to be some people flipping and flopping back and forth when there are new revelations.
That's almost laughable, revelations. My words ok so keep your shirts on.
How about wait until there are both side available.
Don't get how people can get so riled up tbh.
Imo This situation is isolated from other situations in regards to politics , racism, genicide and so on even though they have some themes thet mirror.
I'm going back to watching the grass grow until the defendants stories or versions are reveiled otherwise , what's the point in getting upset.

 

[Nathan Barley]

How so?

If he was present at the players house then you'd assume he'd know why they were there

 

[BrizzyBandit]

western royboy dlanod

To be fair BrizzyBandit western royboy was responding to my questions/speculation directly, so in relation to our discussion, his speculative post has context, as opposed to simply being an opinion.

I hope that helps

Not really. I just dont think this is helpful.
Making observations is fine.... based on what we're seeing/hearing.
Can't we just stick to sharing this horrible situation with eachother as Lions supporters?

I actually like most of royboys posts..... when it is about football and our club/history.

But going deep and creating a narrative about what could of happened and posting it on a public board isn't helpful and can perpetuate misinformation And effect people's perceptions permanently.

 

[Gadzorks]

Certainly sounds like Fages doesn't it

No it doesn't sound like fages.

Which unfortunately doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Have you read the emails that one of the people involved with the club when it happened? Very distressing stuff.

And the report indicates that there was systemic attitudes to indigenous players which is consistent with the emails.

 

[T Rick]

No it doesn't sound like fages.

Which unfortunately doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Have you read the emails that one of the people involved with the club when it happened? Very distressing stuff.

And the report indicates that there was systemic attitudes to indigenous players which is consistent with the emails.

Yeah I have read that stuff but where is Fages explicitly mentioned as saying or doing anything at all.

 

[dlanod]

If he was present at the players house then you'd assume he'd know why they were there

It wasn't Fagan, he doesn't even know what a house looks like, it was the media girl...

 

[dlanod]

Yeah I have read that stuff but where is Fages explicitly mentioned as saying or doing anything at all.

If you look at the email exchange, it explicitly mentions the player being called into a meeting with Fagan (not Clarkson or anyone else).

 

[Viceregal]

No it doesn't sound like fages.

Which unfortunately doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Have you read the emails that one of the people involved with the club when it happened? Very distressing stuff.

And the report indicates that there was systemic attitudes to indigenous players which is consistent with the emails.

You might be able to say that there were systemic attitudes re expectations of professionalism and how that played out but at this point we only have stories from the indigenous players ... it could be that they treated everybody the same way in which case, while no better or worse, does not count as being racist or targeted at a particular sub group. As far as I know this has not yet been determined.

 

[Sausages]

If you look at the email exchange, it explicitly mentions the player being called into a meeting with Fagan (not Clarkson or anyone else).

Yeah, the original allegations now have at least a small sum of corroborative information, so Fages' response, however it is delivered, will need to be pretty detailed.

 

[martinson]

If you look at the email exchange, it explicitly mentions the player being called into a meeting with Fagan (not Clarkson or anyone else).

This was the bit that was new to me.

These are allegations and Fages will respond when the opportunity comes . I presume.

 

[M Malice]

It would be one of the most horrific falls from grace in footy history if Chris Fagan is proven to be involved in racist behaviour. He would go from one of the most universally loved and admired figures in footy ie. teacher, father figure and loving empathetic human being TO a shunned despised racist.

The thought of that scenario folding out is so bloody sad and still almost inconceivable to me and highly improbable IMO.

 

[Kwality]

I am not a fan of the ABC, I was a regular viewer of the 7.30 Report and Q&A but they have become too left leaning. That said, considering Defamation laws and the impact to harm and reputations and potential loss of income to the two coaches you would think the journalist and editor are confident in what they have published.
Again until there is a fully independent review and due process for those named, I want to believe that Fages was not involved and afford him the presumption of innocence.

See the analysis* piece on the ABC web site:

Racism allegations at Hawthorn AFL club shocked some but the ugly truths of the AFL mirror our society​

By Stan Grant
Posted Sun 25 Sep 2022 at 5:00amSunday 25 Sep 2022 at 5:00am, updated Sun 25 Sep 2022 at 10:37am

* I'd call it an opinion piece.

The same Stan Grant is going to chair Q & A this week:

ALAN JONES returns as STAN GRANT puts the Q+A focus on the big news stories of the week

The politicians are back in Canberra following the suspension of parliament, and Q+A has three prominent MPs on the panel to answer your questions, alongside veteran broadcaster Alan Jones.

tvblackbox.com.au

I'd say Stan has made his own position clear, & it will be interesting to see how he deals with opinion that does accord with his own.

 

[McIvor]

This was the bit that was new to me.

These are allegations and Fages will respond when the opportunity comes . I presume.

Likewise and happy to adjust my view according to this evolving issue.

Think Im happy to just sit back and watch this one from now on as I wrongly doubted there would be time stamped proof which doesn't necessarily mean anything absolutely definitive but I'm to far removed to continue to comment.

 

[Clarkythelion]

See the analysis* piece on the ABC web site:

Racism allegations at Hawthorn AFL club shocked some but the ugly truths of the AFL mirror our society​

By Stan Grant
Posted Sun 25 Sep 2022 at 5:00amSunday 25 Sep 2022 at 5:00am, updated Sun 25 Sep 2022 at 10:37am

* I'd call it an opinion piece.

The same Stan Grant is going to chair Q & A this week:

ALAN JONES returns as STAN GRANT puts the Q+A focus on the big news stories of the week

The politicians are back in Canberra following the suspension of parliament, and Q+A has three prominent MPs on the panel to answer your questions, alongside veteran broadcaster Alan Jones.

tvblackbox.com.au

I'd say Stan has made his own position clear, & it will be interesting to see how he deals with opinion that does accord with his own.

Remembering the 7.30 report has lower ratings this year than when it first aired on the ABC, it's pretty much dead in the water for it's views on most subjects it chooses to cover. It will be interesting to see if they double down on the allegations. I notice all other media outlets are being very careful to put covering clauses in their articles.

 

[Clarkythelion]

There have been claims on here that Newbold blamed other people in his office and there are comments about him as a person and so on......

I can find no other comment from him than this in the Herald Sun simply saying he never saw the emails.

"The report claims Newbold responded to an email sent by the woman, saying it was “not appropriate” for him to become involved.
He has now told The Herald Sun he never saw the emails. “I want to refute that absolutely. It’s not my language I would use”.

Did he comment somewhere else that I haven't seen yet?

 

[trikster]

Man this is going to take more than a year at this rate

Former players at the centre of Hawthorn investigation will talk - to an AFL-free hearing​

Former players at the centre of Hawthorn investigation will talk - to an AFL-free hearing

The First Nations players and partners who have made allegations of mistreatment by Hawthorn senior officials want to tell their stories in an independent hearing, free of AFL influence.

www.theage.com.au

 

[lioninthesand]

There have been claims on here that Newbold blamed other people in his office and there are comments about him as a person and so on......

I can find no other comment from him than this in the Herald Sun simply saying he never saw the emails.

"The report claims Newbold responded to an email sent by the woman, saying it was “not appropriate” for him to become involved.
He has now told The Herald Sun he never saw the emails. “I want to refute that absolutely. It’s not my language I would use”.

Did he comment somewhere else that I haven't seen yet?

Yep a whole bunch of stuff.

 

[_Gin]

Does anyone know how long Hawthorne had the report before the story broke?

 

[Section 5]

Kennett article
But says nothing really

Kennett breaks his silence, urges natural justice to be served

Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett reveals the club met with the AFL on Thursday about its investigation into allegations of mistreatment of First Nations players

www.afl.com.au