Roast Hislop = Wasted Pick

[CallMeAl]

Hear Hear, i mean i would rather have kept bling than redraft this dud, he cant bat, cant bowl and cant field.......

oops wrong sport

Cant kick, cant handball, cant mark.

And if it turns to shit who do we blame?


The recruiters or hardwick?

So your saying that a kid that claw liked as a junior cant kick, handball or mark?

Do you really think santa is that poor a judge of a footballer?

 

[Rayzorwire]

why is it we cant let go. casserley hislop polak before them. we delisted then retained surely its time we stopped double guessing ourselves.
we all talk about having loaded up the list with kids but in many ways we have not.

finally if we are looking to promote an inside mid why not contin. he gets the ball inside uses it well has decent pace and gets plenty of it.

Play a game of football and see how you fare after you're exhausted by half or even quarter-time santa - it's a really good way to get injured and/or lose your confidence that you can compete. You've been trotting out fundamentally flawed arguments for years now, insisting players who can't run out an AFL game get picked ahead of the typically less talented place holder players you endlessly criticise.

You call yourself a 'realist', but every year we get another handful of your 'Derickx can go from 1 year in the WAFL to being a no.1 AFL ruckman,' 'Contin can go from mostly playing Coburg reserves last season because of his size and endurance to being an effective full-time AFL midfielder over one pre-season,' type predictions, which have zero grounding in 'reality.'

Even more bewildering, when the coaching staff DO have to play a young side full of kids who by necessity go missing after a half, you're not on here after the game acknowledging that we got thrashed because we only had 14 players in the 2nd half, but saying how good it was that we got games into kids, you're on here unmercifully bagging out a handful of honest goers whose skills let them down a few times after they ran themselves into the ground carrying all the half game players, and stating that only once we get rid of them will we be able to challenge for a premiership.

News flash mate, Leigh Brown has a well deserved premiership medallion - if we'd ever recruited him to play as a CHF/ruckman they would have heard you howling in NZ...'three club hack'...'too slow'...'can't kick'...'ineffective up forward'...'too small to be a ruckman'...'wasted draft pick when the list was already top-age heavy'...I'm sure you would have added much more.

He plays four full quarters, he goes hard, and he does exactly the job which the coach who plucked him from the scrapheap wants from him. Sometimes coaches know exactly what they need and want from a player and can compare that vision to what's available in the draft much better than you or I can.

The answer to your forever repeated 'why did we keep/retain all these hacks?' question is the same nearly every time - 'because it filled a list need.' You just don't recognise the need, because your football delusions include half game players magically becoming full game players overnight just because you picked them in the seniors, and that asking too much from them too early isn't going to jeopardise their later footballing years when they are full grown and ready.

 

[Cathal Brugha]

SO, it's ok to pick up Casserley, who showed nothing in three or four seasons, but not ok to have Hislop, who has shown a little more than Casserley in his two seasons.
Yeah, Casserley was cruelled by injury during his time, so to was Hislop!!
He has a year to prove his worth - it's make or break!

I was making a point re ability and you know it. See the Casserley thread to get my feelings on that fiasco.

 

[Cathal Brugha]

Play a game of football and see how you fare after you're exhausted by half or even quarter-time santa - it's a really good way to get injured and/or lose your confidence that you can compete. You've been trotting out fundamentally flawed arguments for years now, insisting players who can't run out an AFL game get picked ahead of the typically less talented place holder players you endlessly criticise.

You call yourself a 'realist', but every year we get another handful of your 'Derickx can go from 1 year in the WAFL to being a no.1 AFL ruckman,' 'Contin can go from mostly playing Coburg reserves last season because of his size and endurance to being an effective full-time AFL midfielder over one pre-season,' type predictions, which have zero grounding in 'reality.'

Even more bewildering, when the coaching staff DO have to play a young side full of kids who by necessity go missing after a half, you're not on here after the game acknowledging that we got thrashed because we only had 14 players in the 2nd half, but saying how good it was that we got games into kids, you're on here unmercifully bagging out a handful of honest goers whose skills let them down a few times after they ran themselves into the ground carrying all the half game players, and stating that only once we get rid of them will we be able to challenge for a premiership.

News flash mate, Leigh Brown has a well deserved premiership medallion - if we'd ever recruited him to play as a CHF/ruckman they would have heard you howling in NZ...'three club hack'...'too slow'...'can't kick'...'ineffective up forward'...'too small to be a ruckman'...'wasted draft pick when the list was already top-age heavy'...I'm sure you would have added much more.

He plays four full quarters, he goes hard, and he does exactly the job which the coach who plucked him from the scrapheap wants from him. Sometimes coaches know exactly what they need and want from a player and can compare that vision to what's available in the draft much better than you or I can.

The answer to your forever repeated 'why did we keep/retain all these hacks?' question is the same nearly every time - 'because it filled a list need.' You just don't recognise the need, because your football delusions include half game players magically becoming full game players overnight just because you picked them in the seniors, and that asking too much from them too early isn't going to jeopardise their later footballing years when they are full grown and ready.

The positive stories usually involve players filling a niche in great sides. We are rebuilding...again....Hislop is competing for spots with some promising youngsters. This 'hardness' you speak of is overblown delusion.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Play a game of football and see how you fare after you're exhausted by half or even quarter-time santa - it's a really good way to get injured and/or lose your confidence that you can compete. You've been trotting out fundamentally flawed arguments for years now, insisting players who can't run out an AFL game get picked ahead of the typically less talented place holder players you endlessly criticise.

You call yourself a 'realist', but every year we get another handful of your 'Derickx can go from 1 year in the WAFL to being a no.1 AFL ruckman,' 'Contin can go from mostly playing Coburg reserves last season because of his size and endurance to being an effective full-time AFL midfielder over one pre-season,' type predictions, which have zero grounding in 'reality.'

Even more bewildering, when the coaching staff DO have to play a young side full of kids who by necessity go missing after a half, you're not on here after the game acknowledging that we got thrashed because we only had 14 players in the 2nd half, but saying how good it was that we got games into kids, you're on here unmercifully bagging out a handful of honest goers whose skills let them down a few times after they ran themselves into the ground carrying all the half game players, and stating that only once we get rid of them will we be able to challenge for a premiership.

News flash mate, Leigh Brown has a well deserved premiership medallion - if we'd ever recruited him to play as a CHF/ruckman they would have heard you howling in NZ...'three club hack'...'too slow'...'can't kick'...'ineffective up forward'...'too small to be a ruckman'...'wasted draft pick when the list was already top-age heavy'...I'm sure you would have added much more.

He plays four full quarters, he goes hard, and he does exactly the job which the coach who plucked him from the scrapheap wants from him. Sometimes coaches know exactly what they need and want from a player and can compare that vision to what's available in the draft much better than you or I can.


...god...that is truly inspirational stuff!!!.........(KB would love ya!!!)

...nearly brought a tear to my old cynical eye...

...felt like donning the old boots and hitting the tan to play for the club!!!...wonky kneed, failing eyesight, cant kick for shite but what the heck......

...i reckon we all bring something to a team, we all want to belong there, feel part of it...together...positive...together we can achieve mighty things......

...dean wallis was average...but he bought something to that team at essendon...that made them a more powerfull unit...otherwise he would not have been picked...wallis, an average player at best, brought something else, something intangible to the club that made them even better as a playing group...self belief that won a premiership...

...those old sayings....the whole is greater than the sum of its parts...holds true even for football...in other words...a champion team will always beat a team of champions...

...Its not the individuals that are the club...no matter how great...

...carey, ablett snr hudson, plugger, hart were not the club they were part of the whole unit...

...and dare i say it...tommy hislop is not the sole player at the tigers!!!....

...tommy hislop is not the RFC!!!...

...tommy is now part of the tigers...get over it period!!!...he brings something to the club that dimma the coach thinks...(not you or i) the club needs...

...and dimma has identified that something as ...toughness...

...the 2011 season has not even started yet to even see how this strategy will play out...

...until it does...we can only surmise the outcomes...

...but to condemm the move as worthless as some have suggested on here...before it even has a chance to play out is, dare i say it,

...the stuff of fools...

 

[Richm0ndrule]

He will never break into the senior side absolute waste of a pick! why not take 2 kids then Miller wtf is this shit? Poor recruiting AGAIN! WTF are they thinking? shitlop? LMAO

And how does your view of Hislop fare against the RFC recruiters and coaches view of Hislop? point made.

 

[captain blood 17]

Play a game of football and see how you fare after you're exhausted by half or even quarter-time santa - it's a really good way to get injured and/or lose your confidence that you can compete. You've been trotting out fundamentally flawed arguments for years now, insisting players who can't run out an AFL game get picked ahead of the typically less talented place holder players you endlessly criticise.

You call yourself a 'realist', but every year we get another handful of your 'Derickx can go from 1 year in the WAFL to being a no.1 AFL ruckman,' 'Contin can go from mostly playing Coburg reserves last season because of his size and endurance to being an effective full-time AFL midfielder over one pre-season,' type predictions, which have zero grounding in 'reality.'

Even more bewildering, when the coaching staff DO have to play a young side full of kids who by necessity go missing after a half, you're not on here after the game acknowledging that we got thrashed because we only had 14 players in the 2nd half, but saying how good it was that we got games into kids, you're on here unmercifully bagging out a handful of honest goers whose skills let them down a few times after they ran themselves into the ground carrying all the half game players, and stating that only once we get rid of them will we be able to challenge for a premiership.

News flash mate, Leigh Brown has a well deserved premiership medallion - if we'd ever recruited him to play as a CHF/ruckman they would have heard you howling in NZ...'three club hack'...'too slow'...'can't kick'...'ineffective up forward'...'too small to be a ruckman'...'wasted draft pick when the list was already top-age heavy'...I'm sure you would have added much more.

He plays four full quarters, he goes hard, and he does exactly the job which the coach who plucked him from the scrapheap wants from him. Sometimes coaches know exactly what they need and want from a player and can compare that vision to what's available in the draft much better than you or I can.

The answer to your forever repeated 'why did we keep/retain all these hacks?' question is the same nearly every time - 'because it filled a list need.' You just don't recognise the need, because your football delusions include half game players magically becoming full game players overnight just because you picked them in the seniors, and that asking too much from them too early isn't going to jeopardise their later footballing years when they are full grown and ready.

While i am a Hislop basher, If you were to make this point about the rest of the people RFC drafted this year ie: your McDonalds etc, then the point is well made. Our drafting this year isn't speculation, it's addressing long term needs. Think Collingwood when they went for Thomas, Pendlebury and Sidebottom, all fitted a need. We have done the same this draft.

 

[santa claws]

So your saying that a kid that claw liked as a junior cant kick, handball or mark?

Do you really think santa is that poor a judge of a footballer?

ive got plenty very wrong but by the same token ive got more very right.
if i got em all right id be in scott claytons job raking in the millions.

dont worry about old rayzor over the yrs ive come to the conclusion that its better to ignore him as he never seems to learn a thing.one can never have a decent debate with him as he cant understand the simple meaning of context.
besides im sick of kicking his fat arse been there done that. in rasors case once a loser always a loser.
how funny him defending a to be 5th yr player because he can only run for a half of footy.

 

[santa claws]

And how does your view of Hislop fare against the RFC recruiters and coaches view of Hislop? point made.

well for two yrs his view compares very well against those recruiters dont you think. sheesh even 4 yrs as hes failed thus far at essendon as well.

to date i dont think cameron and jackson have much to hang their hat on with this one.
as for the coaches well they have yet to turn him around and have plenty of work to do to justify keeping him.

hmm how does his view fare well id say hes in front.

 

[MightyTiger]

well for two yrs his view compares very well against those recruiters dont you think. sheesh even 4 yrs as hes failed thus far at essendon as well.

to date i dont think cameron and jackson have much to hang their hat on with this one.
as for the coaches well they have yet to turn him around and have plenty of work to do to justify keeping him.

hmm how does his view fare well id say hes in front.

Who do they have to justify there actions to? You?

 

[santa claws]

SO, it's ok to pick up Casserley, who showed nothing in three or four seasons, but not ok to have Hislop, who has shown a little more than Casserley in his two seasons.
Yeah, Casserley was cruelled by injury during his time, so to was Hislop!!
He has a year to prove his worth - it's make or break!

the most accurate of all observations on this thread. he has one yr it is indeed make or break.
no footy club can keep players for 5yrs with with hislops output.

ive given him 4 yrs for me thats enough. yet i can still see him as a junior big bodied tough inside with good vision and hands.and he can take a solid grab.
always thought his kicking was okay but at afl level it has not held up. never quick his lack of pace has been shown up at this level.
always thought he would play as an inside mid at afl so his pace was never a big issue for me motor was more important.

 

[santa claws]

Who do they have to justify there actions to? You?

is that you GM after what has gone before i would have thought accountability a catchcry anyway enough deflection do you think on this one they have much to hang their hat on.

 

[MightyTiger]

is that you GM after what has gone before i would have thought accountability a catchcry

The only accountability they have is on Board and Club level, they don't need to justify a rookie selection to a supporter or member, people in the club don't purposely try to make decisions to ruin the club.

So once again I will ask, who do you think you are that the club needs to be accountable for a rookie selection?

As far as I'm concerned you're a nobody sitting behind a desk taking potshots directly at the people in charge trying to bring this once great club off it's knees and to deliver it's 11th premiership and then some.

Also if you think you're so much better then the people in charge making the decisions then by all means lodge in your resume for head recruiting officer instead of making hindsight calls from the desk.

Because as we all know it's easier to criticize a decision made then it is to make a decision of your own.

EDIT: Ok I just saw your edited post and I will answer the last part.

As I answered last time if judging solely on past performances then the obvious thing to say is no, however he has never had a full preseason and has been injured for the most part of his career.

So if the Club thinks that he can improve his game by having a full preseason without injuries and can keep improving then I see no problem with the pick.

Also I would like to know what you think of Luke Ball, Premiership player with the Pies who was recruited for the sole purpose of being a pure extractor.

I will list some of Luke Balls deficiencies that I think are in his game.

Downside:

Can't kick
Slow
Injury Prone
Kicking Distance of about 35-40 Meters

Upside:

Can win a hardball
Clearance machine

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

santa claws

...young tommys now a part of the tigers...

...let it go and get over it...

...its a fait compli...

...its water under the bridge...

 

[RockyBalboa]

Play a game of football and see how you fare after you're exhausted by half or even quarter-time santa - it's a really good way to get injured and/or lose your confidence that you can compete. You've been trotting out fundamentally flawed arguments for years now, insisting players who can't run out an AFL game get picked ahead of the typically less talented place holder players you endlessly criticise.

You call yourself a 'realist', but every year we get another handful of your 'Derickx can go from 1 year in the WAFL to being a no.1 AFL ruckman,' 'Contin can go from mostly playing Coburg reserves last season because of his size and endurance to being an effective full-time AFL midfielder over one pre-season,' type predictions, which have zero grounding in 'reality.'

Even more bewildering, when the coaching staff DO have to play a young side full of kids who by necessity go missing after a half, you're not on here after the game acknowledging that we got thrashed because we only had 14 players in the 2nd half, but saying how good it was that we got games into kids, you're on here unmercifully bagging out a handful of honest goers whose skills let them down a few times after they ran themselves into the ground carrying all the half game players, and stating that only once we get rid of them will we be able to challenge for a premiership.

News flash mate, Leigh Brown has a well deserved premiership medallion - if we'd ever recruited him to play as a CHF/ruckman they would have heard you howling in NZ...'three club hack'...'too slow'...'can't kick'...'ineffective up forward'...'too small to be a ruckman'...'wasted draft pick when the list was already top-age heavy'...I'm sure you would have added much more.

He plays four full quarters, he goes hard, and he does exactly the job which the coach who plucked him from the scrapheap wants from him. Sometimes coaches know exactly what they need and want from a player and can compare that vision to what's available in the draft much better than you or I can.

The answer to your forever repeated 'why did we keep/retain all these hacks?' question is the same nearly every time - 'because it filled a list need.' You just don't recognise the need, because your football delusions include half game players magically becoming full game players overnight just because you picked them in the seniors, and that asking too much from them too early isn't going to jeopardise their later footballing years when they are full grown and ready.

Yeh and sometimes they pick Adam Pattison, andrew raines or JON or Hooper and get it completely wrong.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Yeh and sometimes they pick Adam Pattison, andrew raines or JON or Hooper and get it completely wrong.

...yeah i know what you mean......

...even an akermanis can rock the boat!!!......

 

[CallMeAl]

ive got plenty very wrong but by the same token ive got more very right.
if i got em all right id be in scott claytons job raking in the millions.

dont worry about old rayzor over the yrs ive come to the conclusion that its better to ignore him as he never seems to learn a thing.one can never have a decent debate with him as he cant understand the simple meaning of context.
besides im sick of kicking his fat arse been there done that. in rasors case once a loser always a loser.
how funny him defending a to be 5th yr player because he can only run for a half of footy.

the most accurate of all observations on this thread. he has one yr it is indeed make or break.
no footy club can keep players for 5yrs with with hislops output.

ive given him 4 yrs for me thats enough. yet i can still see him as a junior big bodied tough inside with good vision and hands.and he can take a solid grab.
always thought his kicking was okay but at afl level it has not held up. never quick his lack of pace has been shown up at this level.
always thought he would play as an inside mid at afl so his pace was never a big issue for me motor was more important.

Actally that was directed at NQtiger not razorwire.

What Im trying to get at is that i believe the deficencies we see in Hislop now, have not always been there and there is a reason why they are there now.

From the first time i read, months ago now, that the club was going to delist and then rookie list hislop the question i have been asking over and over is why? what does the coaching staff see that no one else can?

slowly the picture has started to come together, then reading that you, one of the harshest judges of players on here rated him as a kid it actually started to make some sort of sense.

Hislop's up side is that he is hard, good size body wise, wins contested footy, a good mark, and knows how to get to the pill.

The downside is a lack of pace, disposal/ decision making and discipline.

The way i see it, if you rated him as a junior, those downsides have only just just surfaced, which raises the question of why?

I have gathered that he would not have been slow, but just not super fast, although on the bummers website and on posts on the bummers board, he was regarded as fast as a kid.

as for his kicking, gee I've seen him kick so bad that when you think about it, it is just unfathomable that someone could get to this level with kicking that bad. I mean we are talking something you hardly see in competitions three or four levels down.

So really it can only come down to injury, an injury that affects both legs peed and kicking, which knee and/or hip injuries can do to you.

The fact that he played a few games early on suggests to me that he can actually play how dimma wants him to,(follow the game plan/team rules) just that he couldn't to a level required.

The question now is how much is this due to injury?

A year on the rookie list will hopefully answer this. Basically he now has one year to prove that he can make it at AFL level. Hopefully he can get over his injury concerns and there will be no excuses - he is either up to it or he isn't.

 

[Rayzorwire]

...dont worry about old rayzor over the yrs ive come to the conclusion that its better to ignore him...

LMAO...ignore me by trimming your response to nothing but the abuse?

...if i got em all right id be in scott claytons job raking in the millions.

Yeah, it's no secret that many AFL clubs have been following your form santa.

 

[NQTIGER]

Actally that was directed at NQtiger not razorwire.

What Im trying to get at is that i believe the deficencies we see in Hislop now, have not always been there and there is a reason why they are there now.

From the first time i read, months ago now, that the club was going to delist and then rookie list hislop the question i have been asking over and over is why? what does the coaching staff see that no one else can?

slowly the picture has started to come together, then reading that you, one of the harshest judges of players on here rated him as a kid it actually started to make some sort of sense.

Hislop's up side is that he is hard, good size body wise, wins contested footy, a good mark, and knows how to get to the pill.

The downside is a lack of pace, disposal/ decision making and discipline.

The way i see it, if you rated him as a junior, those downsides have only just just surfaced, which raises the question of why?

I have gathered that he would not have been slow, but just not super fast, although on the bummers website and on posts on the bummers board, he was regarded as fast as a kid.

as for his kicking, gee I've seen him kick so bad that when you think about it, it is just unfathomable that someone could get to this level with kicking that bad. I mean we are talking something you hardly see in competitions three or four levels down.

So really it can only come down to injury, an injury that affects both legs peed and kicking, which knee and/or hip injuries can do to you.

The fact that he played a few games early on suggests to me that he can actually play how dimma wants him to,(follow the game plan/team rules) just that he couldn't to a level required.

The question now is how much is this due to injury?

A year on the rookie list will hopefully answer this. Basically he now has one year to prove that he can make it at AFL level. Hopefully he can get over his injury concerns and there will be no excuses - he is either up to it or he isn't.

What was aimed at me?

I cant see why he was redrafted, which agrees with claws.

he might be tough, but we already have an angry ant who has more upside than hislop. At least king can kick top complement his hardness.

Crikey even thomson had more upside, imo the recruiters and list manager got this one very wrong and i would have preffered another kid drafted.

Hislop is wasting a year on our list........he would be better of playing in for the doutta stars in the EFL..

 

[Slattery_20]

The way i see it, if you rated him as a junior, those downsides have only just just surfaced, which raises the question of why?

I have gathered that he would not have been slow, but just not super fast, although on the bummers website and on posts on the bummers board, he was regarded as fast as a kid.

Worth remembering that he (as a Tas kid) played the 2nd grade of U18s; against the NSW (etc) kids he was a monster who could boss everyone, and generally do what he pleased. That trick apparently didn't translate when everyone's the same size as him.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Tom has the eye of the Tiger

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/106362/default.aspx

 

[1980GFVideo]

Worth remembering that he (as a Tas kid) played the 2nd grade of U18s; against the NSW (etc) kids he was a monster who could boss everyone, and generally do what he pleased. That trick apparently didn't translate when everyone's the same size as him.

Yep, early puberty makes many school champions.

Hated guys like Hislop in school. Having to sit next to a guy already growing hair on his chest.

 

[happy_punter]

waisted pick is now turning into a waisted hype

 

[Cathal Brugha]

Tom has the eye of the Tiger

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/106362/default.aspx

The bloke was not up to it when fit! Now we have an injured, ordinary player

 

[_RT_]

The bloke was not up to it when fit! Now we have an injured, ordinary player

Can you tell us when he was last fully fit when at Richmond?