NO TROLLS Homophobia in the AFL - 4 Corners

[Freshwater]

a certain % of people like sports
a certain % of people like contact sports

but generally its only with gay people that we link their sexuality to whether they do or don't like a sport

why is that?

I’m not linking it or really thinking about it just contributing to this discussion about social issues. It’s fascinating who is attracted to different aspects of our culture. Sport is definitely a more masculine thing more than the arts and music for instance, and the football codes more than most other sports. I’m not making a value judgement just an observation.

 

[Strange Cat]

And absolutely no one said a word about it.

Thats not even casual homophobia which we almost all turn a blind eye too.

Yep got stood down for a few weeks and had to have training over said comments

The outrage was more from the public but he should had been sacked over it imo…instead just a slap on the wrist and no anger from chan 7 or other media personalities over the incident

 

[Gralin]

I’m not linking it or really thinking about it just contributing to this discussion about social issues. It’s fascinating who is attracted to different aspects of our culture. Sport is definitely a more masculine thing more than the arts and music for instance, and the football codes more than most other sports. I’m not making a value judgement just an observation.

is it a more masculine thing
or is it that its sold as, marketed as and socially acceptable as a masculine thing?

is it that up until recently, past a certain age only boys could really play and only boys were really shown playing

so boys took more of an interest than girls because they were watching something they could imagine themselves doing?

 

[edgie]

Wait for the Brownlow. The AFL & Media have purposefully turned it into a Red Carpet parade of wives and girlfriends. It’s the most overt hetero thing I’ve ever seen.
Being “normal” and acting in AFL expectations is to have a glamorous female on your arm.
I’m straight… but even I wonder how all that Brownlow WAG stuff started and why it persists.

That's what I'm saying? I'm asking about the other things not to do with women.

 

[edgie]

I've always referred to Joe Jackson to teach me about the confusing nature of gays and straights regarding masculinity

See the nice boys, dancing in pairs
Golden earring, golden tan, blow wave in their hair
Sure, they're all straight, straight as a line
All the gays are macho
Can't you see the leather shine?

 

[The Educator]

Wait for the Brownlow. The AFL & Media have purposefully turned it into a Red Carpet parade of wives and girlfriends. It’s the most overt hetero thing I’ve ever seen.
Being “normal” and acting in AFL expectations is to have a glamorous female on your arm.
I’m straight… but even I wonder how all that Brownlow WAG stuff started and why it persists.

There is nothing the AFL would like more than a gay player with his partner at the brownlow....

Have a look at the AFLW awards red carpet...

Here Are The Most Breathtaking Looks From The AFLW Awards

The AFLW Awards red carpet is running circles around the Brownlow.

junkee.com

 

[tandino]

There's a whole world that exists outside the AFL ecosystem that players have to live in as well.

Players are speaking clearly, with their silence. They don't feel comfortable. How about working on that, and stop trying to shake one loose.

 

[HarryBeef]

The football codes are masculine type sports. That is why there is a much higher percentage of lesbians in all women’s football codes. For this reason there would be less gay males in the football codes, but definitely not none. But if a male were to come out, his masculinity would be questioned every time he didn’t commit to contest in the ‘masculine’ way. It wouldn’t be very helpful to his career.

My god

 

[The Educator]

is it a more masculine thing
or is it that its sold as, marketed as and socially acceptable as a masculine thing?

is it that up until recently, past a certain age only boys could really play and only boys were really shown playing

so boys took more of an interest than girls because they were watching something they could imagine themselves doing?

I am sure it is both.

It is one thing to address the historic bias but it is pretty obtuse to ignore the likelihood of a relationship between "masculinity" and the competitive traits that might attract someone to competitive sport.

Particularly when the statistical outcomes are so comprehensive, I think it is actually really unhelpful to just assume it is all just a social contstruct

 

[edgie]

Yeh in my experience human beings especially men, dont learn THAT quickly.

More importantly if no one is open, then no one changes, no one changes the environment remains homophobic and no one feels comfortable coming out. So you can see that even from your example we dont have a safe and secure environment for gay men to be out and proud.

I did say it was slow progress, but it was progress. I don't even know if they even have to learn, even if they just pretend to. Because as long as those bahaviours aren't being done, and aren't being seen by younger people, than those people aren't being influenced by it. Then it does change.

 

[Gralin]

I am sure it is both.

It is one thing to address the historic bias but it is pretty obtuse to ignore the likelihood of a relationship between "masculinity" and the competitive traits that might attract someone to competitive sport.

Particularly when the statistical outcomes are so comprehensive, I think it is actually really unhelpful to just assume it is all just a social contstruct

but it is all just a social construct
the term masculinity is just that

 

[HarryBeef]

No one in Qatar has actually been executed or beheaded for being LBGT though (least not for a very very long time, they rarely execute anyone over there anymore)

Doesn't make their laws of homosexuality and public displays of affection right of course, but it's nowhere near as bad as some other countries in the Middle East and Africa.

Also the fact Izak Rankine and Charlie Cameron have been racially abused on social media this weekend again suggests to me that Australia and the AFL community is nowhere near as accepting and tolerant of people from all walks of life/backgrounds as you think.

Indigenous players in footy being racially abused and attacked on almost a weekly basis this week on social media these days is only going to make it harder for a male gay AFL player to come out (IMO)

You're not someone who should be commenting in a thread about homophobia with your history.

 

[edgie]

Honestly, I'd be surprised if it didn't simply turn out like it did in the last season of Ted Lasso.

Entirely positive.
...

Notice also in Ted Lasso, how the gay guy pretends to be straight to fit in with the over the top heterosexuality of the changeroom culture? Talk about girls and picking up and posters of chicks everywhere?

I like too how his boyfriend understands and doesn't pressure him to come out to his team, even goes along with the straight act.

And the player didn't want to be a poster child for any cause. He just wanted to be himself.

 

[phantom13]

There is nothing the AFL would like more than a gay player with his partner at the brownlow....

Have a look at the AFLW awards red carpet...

Here Are The Most Breathtaking Looks From The AFLW Awards

The AFLW Awards red carpet is running circles around the Brownlow.

junkee.com

There is a fair difference between both lesbians and gay men as there is between the AFL and the AFLW.

I did say it was slow progress, but it was progress. I don't even know if they even have to learn, even if they just pretend to. Because as long as those bahaviours aren't being done, and aren't being seen by younger people, than those people aren't being influenced by it. Then it does change.

But you have just noted that when there is an openly gay player... If the environment isnt safe then the gay person wont come out, then the culture doesnt change.

Youve said you dont think there is a single gay AFL player (which is truthfully so naive i dont even know how to engage in the conversation with you) but by your own logic every single AFL club is going to be displaying casual homophobia leading to this cycle of players not coming out and there being no progress on stamping this out.

Maybe you have to start with the behaviour and then youll get guys coming out. You want the cart before the horse here.

 

[Elixuh]

For some I would suspect the primary reason is to protect against homophobia from the general public rather than fear of internal ridicule or rejection. Might differ from club to club I suppose re how safe one feels. I've no doubt there are some players who are 'out' within the four walls of their club but there is no need to broadcast it to the world if they don't want to (which is probably sensible).

 

[edgie]

There is a fair difference between both lesbians and gay men as there is between the AFL and the AFLW.

But you have just noted that when there is an openly gay player... If the environment isnt safe then the gay person wont come out, then the culture doesnt change.

Youve said you dont think there is a single gay AFL player (which is truthfully so naive i dont even know how to engage in the conversation with you) but by your own logic every single AFL club is going to be displaying casual homophobia leading to this cycle of players not coming out and there being no progress on stamping this out.

Maybe you have to start with the behaviour and then youll get guys coming out. You want the cart before the horse here.

I also admitted the cart had to come before the horse. Doesn't mean I want that, but it was example of creating a shift in language, at least, and that it happened. Also surprised I have more faith in people than you regarding their ability to do that.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Sadly I can honestly see the first male gay player being publicly outed by some low life flog in the media

Actually watched the Gay Witch Hunt episode of The Office last night (doing a series re-watch again) which whilst has some offensive language and content in it, is a good example why publicly outing someone (esp when they are not ready to do so) is absolutely a shameful and disgraceful and vindictive act (such as that disgusting leaked Tom Morris what's app chat about Megan Barnard)

 

[edgie]

Sadly I can honestly see the first male gay player being publicly outed by some low life flog in the media
...

Remember that ****head that Bevo went mad at, in his speech he was like 'I'm not a black, I'm not a gay'...

But the media didn't care. It only cared about the 'liquor license' remarks. The lesbian slander.

Where was the equality for gay men having derogatory comments about them called out?

 

[Underarm]

Notice also in Ted Lasso, how the gay guy pretends to be straight to fit in with the over the top heterosexuality of the changeroom culture? Talk about girls and picking up and posters of chicks everywhere?

I like too how his boyfriend understands and doesn't pressure him to come out to his team, even goes along with the straight act.

And the player didn't want to be a poster child for any cause. He just wanted to be himself.

Ted Lasso really dropped the ball with that ending. Basically gave what they thought Straight people would want as the resolution to that story.

 

[phantom13]

I also admitted the cart had to come before the horse. Doesn't mean I want that, but it was example of creating a shift in language, at least, and that it happened. Also surprised I have more faith in people than you regarding their ability to do that.

Youre missing the point though.

Youre saying straight players will stop the casual homophobic language after the know a teammate is gay but said teammate isnt going to be comfortable coming out whilst there is casual homophobia at the club. Its your logic thats failing not mine.

This doco (and groups like Stand Up etc) are trying to create the cultural shift BEFORE the player comes out to ensure they have a safe and supportive environment to come out and when that happens it will progress the change to be more rapid.

I understand youre not anti the progress but you also seem to be advocating for doing nothing cause its sort of slowly maybe progressing anyway, we can and should do better.

 

[maskmcgee]

Again maybe they don't want to. Maybe they prefer to just keep to themselves. Maybe all their team mates know and that's all that matters.

But there's not even rumours about any specific player being gay. If a player had told anyone, there'd be rumours floating around about it.

 

[phantom13]

Remember that *head that Bevo went mad at, in his speech he was like 'I'm not a black, I'm not a gay'...

But the media didn't care. It only cared about the 'liquor license' remarks. The lesbian slander.

Where was the equality for gay men having derogatory comments about them called out?

No, he copped shit for the racism and general punching down it was just overshadowed because he actually outed a person with a name and a life.

The general racism was poor and copped a whack but the pointed homophobia and impact on a persons actual life and livelihood was rightly the focus.

Worth noting he is now back in the AFL accredited media so you know, clearly THAT would make any gay player feel super supported.

 

[phantom13]

But there's not even rumours about any specific player being gay. If a player had told anyone, there'd be rumours floating around about it.

... ahhhh no, there are PLENTY of rumours.

 

[edgie]

Youre missing the point though.

Youre saying straight players will stop the casual homophobic language after the know a teammate is gay but said teammate isnt going to be comfortable coming out whilst there is casual homophobia at the club. Its your logic thats failing not mine.

This doco (and groups like Stand Up etc) are trying to create the cultural shift BEFORE the player comes out to ensure they have a safe and supportive environment to come out and when that happens it will progress the change to be more rapid.

I understand youre not anti the progress but you also seem to be advocating for doing nothing cause its sort of slowly maybe progressing anyway, we can and should do better.

I'm not advocating for doing nothing. I want the culture to change. I am just saying, that when I have witnessed that scenario, things have changed. IE, people have the capacity for change. Eventually that flows through to the next generation, where the order of 'cart' and 'horse' has corrected itself.

 

[edgie]

... ahhhh no, there are PLENTY of rumours.

I mean if you're in to rumours like a high school clique. I am aware of none.