NO TROLLS Homophobia in the AFL - 4 Corners

[Bluelegs]

More detail offered by Louise Milligan in a follow up article outlining just how hard it was to get people within the AFL to talk.

We tried to tackle the AFL's last great taboo. The code got defensive

Not a single elite male AFL player has ever come out publicly as gay or bisexual. This is what happened when Four Corners tried to ask about the silence.

www.abc.net.au

"Yep. Don't get me wrong, Louise, I'd love one of my guys to come out. They'd make a fortune."

#justmanagerthings

 

[Lagooner]

Pretty interesting article.

Remember when thorpey came out and the response was pretty much, well duh, and no one really cared.

I'd like to think that'd be the same in the AFL. Unfortunately there will always be the deadshits in society like the ones who racially abuse Aboriginal players. You'd have to be a pretty resilient type like Goodesy and someone who wouod be prepared to call out the homophobic abuse in the crowd.

I think the article blatantly glosses over homophobia in men’s team sport in an attempt to cast the AFL as some unusual outlier. It’s not. Yeah there have been openly gay players in other sports but the numbers are absolutely minuscule. Josh Cavallo was the only one in top flight soccer IN THE WORLD when he came out a couple years back.

This is not an issue specific to the AFL. This is all about the dynamics of male groups and how stereotypical manly man identity and peer acceptance take precedence over maturity and respect.

Until those dynamics shift you won’t change a god damn thing irrespective of how many rainbows get plastered around the place.

 

[edgie]

So that article basically admits that homophobic language is still rife at footy clubs.

I thought the younger generation were supposed to know better? Or are we assuming that all of it comes from dinosaur coaches and others boomers that work at the club?

Things are better than they used to be, but they are still hard. Teens and young men, especially many of them from private school privilege backgrounds, are still doing a lot of stuff that makes others anywhere from uncomfortable to excluded.

It annoys me that so many posters around here continually have this unbridled optimism toward that demographic and shift blame away from them to the usual targets. It strikes me as out of touch.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

There is one current player who is gay that my sister knows of that is strong enough to come out imo.
Any homophobic players or fans would be quickly sidelined in todays environment you would like to think.
Although the damage done by Akermanis's homophobic comments can't be underestimated.

 

[Tadpole]

Akermanis comes across as a complete DH in that program.

In referencing his ' stay in the closet' article-
" If you dont like what I said go get counseling"

FMD.

What an absolute twatwaffle he is.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

My problem with these articles is always the normative posture the line of questions takes. If you're espousing a culturally neutral position, then it's not for anyone to make judgements on the decisions of individuals. No decision is ever made without some sort of cultural backdrop and pressures exerted on individuals, there isn't any insight provided here. The articles read like an outsider's take, and they have neither better judgement nor moral insight to provide.

It's clear in the article that they don't have any real view into football clubs in 2023 and rely heavily on insights from a generation of footballers (including amateur footballers) whose attitudes and experiences reflected not on Australian Football but on the attitudes of society at the time.

When the clubs shut up shop to protect their players it's a code of silence. The preface in the follow-up article that pressure shouldn't be applied to men to come out doesn't seem to apply when clubs protect the privacy of their playing group. It's rank hypocrisy.

 

[edgie]

A player manager that reckons there may only be one gay player in the AFL seems remarkable. They know less than bigfooty posters!

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Personally i think the media is just as much to blame than any other part of the industry.

If and when the first player openly comes out, the media will turn it into an absolute circus because they can't help themselves and i would imagine that none of the gay players would want to subject themselves to that even if it was positive and supportive.

 

[00Stinger]

The biggest issue is the media.

They cannot get enough of same sex relationships.

Moana Hope and Maria Thattil share loved-up selfie

Well, it’s official…ish – Moana Hope and Maria Thattil seemingly confirm their rumoured relationship via an Instagram story.

www.perthnow.com.au

Completely irrelevant ex-player but wow front page news!!!

When do you ever see an article about a female sportsperson and her male partner?

the main issue I have with that article is Hope being referred to as AFLW star

 

[00Stinger]

So that article basically admits that homophobic language is still rife at footy clubs.

I thought the younger generation were supposed to know better? Or are we assuming that all of it comes from dinosaur coaches and others boomers that work at the club?

I've got very close gay friends (probably my closest two tbh) and have worked with a lot of gay people of the years, most of whom use homophobic language and jokes themselves without really taking any offense. Of course if they are discriminated against with actions that is different

Surely some language from people isn't going to be a deciding factor on them coming out? If anything the language would probably stop. Plus I would think that peoples actions would probably change with someone openly being out being around

 

[00Stinger]

Regarding Akers article 13 years ago, I mean ffs Murphy not being able to say Akers name because he said the industry wasn't ready for an openly gay player is so far over the ****ing top that its laughable

And in truth back then I don't know if the league/society was but people have changed a lot since then

 

[edgie]

I've got very close gay friends (probably my closest two tbh) and have worked with a lot of gay people of the years, most of whom use homophobic language and jokes themselves without really taking any offense. Of course if they are discriminated against with actions that is different

Surely some language from people isn't going to be a deciding factor on them coming out? If anything the language would probably stop. Plus I would think that peoples actions would probably change with someone openly being out being around

My gay uncle uses plenty of words that would get others in trouble as well, there's a hierarchy he has.

The f slur is unacceptable in full form, the shortened may be ok.

P word is usually fine.

Gay isn't even a slur, it's just a adjective.

etc

 

[76woodenspooners]

When do you ever see an article about a female sportsperson and her male partner?

You’ve never read New Idea?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-great-disgusted-by-exteammate-jason-akermanis-comments-on-gay-players/news-story/007cba8619e4662a3bc397fc8a99b70c

Good for you Bob Murphy

 

[BomberManU]

View attachment 1782025
Regarding Akers article 13 years ago, I mean ffs Murphy not being able to say Akers name because he said the industry wasn't ready for an openly gay player is so far over the ******* top nthat its laughable

And in truth back then I don't know if the league/society was but people have changed a lot since then

Clearly Aker hasn't changed since then.

 

[Gough]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-great-disgusted-by-exteammate-jason-akermanis-comments-on-gay-players/news-story/007cba8619e4662a3bc397fc8a99b70c

Good for you Bob Murphy

Anywhere Murdoch has operated, he's done as much as anyone in that country to promote homophobia.

 

[Toump Ass]

Aker, who himself was ultimately not welcome at 2 clubs most recently 13 years ago, is a reliable judge on the attitudes of existing player groups?

Sure, he's an idiot. But I'm not discounting the reason some people were uncomfortable with being called homophobes is because they were a ilttle bit homophobic.

As an aside, how funny is Aker's comment: "I don't mind if you're gay, just don't shove it in my face!!!"
Like what does that even mean.
Aker's trying to sell a house in Brissie and his client is waving a rainbow flag under his nose saying: "Hey Aker! I'm gay! I'm gay! Look at me I'm gay!!!"
What a tool

 

[edgie]

Sure, he's an idiot. But I'm not discounting the reason some people were uncomfortable with being called homophobes is because they were a ilttle bit homophobic.

As an aside, how funny is Aker's comment: "I don't mind if you're gay, just don't shove it in my face!!!"
Like what does that even mean.
Aker's trying to sell a house in Brissie and his client is waving a rainbow flag under his nose saying: "Hey Aker! I'm gay! I'm gay! Look at me I'm gay!!!"
What a tool

You can be gay, just not around me. You must be devoid of anything that can be interpretted as homosexual behaviour. Like dressing up in women's clothes. That's gay. You can only do that if you are straight.

 

[phantom13]

A player manager that reckons there may only be one gay player in the AFL seems remarkable. They know less than bigfooty posters!

Hes speculating as much as anyone. In reality the ABC and others have confirmed more than one player is gay, taking his word over theirs seems pretty weird to me.

I wouldnt doubt the percentage of men in the AFL who are gay is lower than in modern society, as discussed the road isnt exactly paved for them to stay in the game.

 

[phantom13]

Got to say, watched it this morning and thought it was pretty balanced. It would be the easy route to just smash the AFL for being outdated and homophobic but it certainly acknowledged the complexity of the issue from a societal level.

Ultimately the AFL themselves acknowledge they are not doing enough but it also seems like no one is entirely sure what to do.

Eddie McGuire came off really well.

Aker is a ****ing homophobic moron (and really Aker, you cant be a homophobe cause youre not "scared" of them)

I forgot Brock McLean

Brock Mclean

Age

39

Ht

184cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

10.9

4star

HB

8.9

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

existed but good on him, always seemed a nice guy.

Bob Murphys yips story was interesting, in reality every single one of us has done something like that, my convo with Angie Greene made me realise the language i had used in my time around footy clubs and how potentially damaging it could have been. As someone who strongly identifies as an ally and feels very very passionately about LGBTIQ+ rights its pretty gutting to confront youre own casual bias but its also really important to do so.

 

[jj1978]

Obviously like racism there will be 1% of numnuts out there in the club, media, stands who make something that should be a non-event become an event. Fortunately WAFL has many open gay players and not that I really take a huge note of what a lot of AFL/WAFL players do outside of the game, I've not heard of WAFL gay players being singled out and such.

To me the mens side of the game is still learning a lot on how to deal with the changes of societies norms and an archaic deep rooted tradition of the mens side that's been in existence for 150+ years.... at present feel like the AFL prefers and wants to control the uncontrollable and are always fearful of public scrutiny and the impact to the brand. I think within the next 5 years we'll start to see mens players coming out as I think the new administration will make effort and improve education and understanding in a lot of social issues moving forward.

 

[edgie]

The problem is I think a lot of homophobia, serious or casual/careless, beings long before AFL. Look at what goes on in private schools. Look where most players get educated. By the time people end up in the AFL, they're already a little compromised.

 

[Del165198]

So that article basically admits that homophobic language is still rife at footy clubs.

I thought the younger generation were supposed to know better? Or are we assuming that all of it comes from dinosaur coaches and others boomers that work at the club?

Things are better than they used to be, but they are still hard. Teens and young men, especially many of them from private school privilege backgrounds, are still doing a lot of stuff that makes others anywhere from uncomfortable to excluded.

It annoys me that so many posters around here continually have this unbridled optimism toward that demographic and shift blame away from them to the usual targets. It strikes me as out of touch.

again you're making up a strawman. no one thinks there aren't homphobes and dickheads amongst the youth.

people are talking in generalisations because as a cohort, that generation is more progressive than the ones before. that can be seen in voting habits, surveys, studies, etc.

when i was in high school, it was completely "normal" to call things "gay", calling people "f*gs or f*ggots etc" was the norm.

it's definitely less common now, though of course it would still happen. your local experience in broken hill would not be representative of metro schools.

 

[edgie]

again you're making up a strawman. no one thinks there aren't homphobes and dickheads amongst the youth.

people are talking in generalisations because as a cohort, that generation is more progressive than the ones before. that can be seen in voting habits, surveys, studies, etc.

when i was in high school, it was completely "normal" to call things "gay", calling people "f*gs or f*ggots etc" was the norm.

it's definitely less common now, though of course it would still happen. your local experience in broken hill would not be representative of metro schools.

Yes, Broken Hill is well known for it's abundance of boys only private education facilities.

Is Broken Hill the most progressive place in the country?

The local literary and arts communities are flourishing, even as the bars are bursting.

www.smh.com.au

Keep up buddy

I've seen Jack's house but. Wouldn't surprise me if it hasn't appreciated. That is not representative of local real estate as a whole. Shit's getting ****ed.

 

[00Stinger]

Clearly Aker hasn't changed since then.

Probably hasn't, not my point at all

Murphy being unable to say his name out loud is an absolute joke though