How did the AFL get the Giants so right?!

[threesixpio]

Lol

Hey I’m barracking for you guys tomorrow. * the Tiges.

But pretty much every extension team has done better than you besides Gold Catastrophoast

 

[Colonial]

Hey I’m barracking for you guys tomorrow. fu** the Tiges.

But pretty much every extension team has done better than you besides Gold Catastrophoast

There's a list out there that has us further up that ladder than what you would think.

Including the Vic expansion sides which I'm guessing you don't include.

We we always supposed to lose a ton, as were the suns, which is why the start ups were what they were.

We have a great list but our list this year is no where near as strong as in the past. That is if you are one of those that goes off where a player was drafted. Which you shouldn't be.

 

[Roobs321]

The culture foundations at the very beginning in 2011-12 have remained consistent throughout their history. Appointing Sheedy, appointing Ward/Davis, and getting the right batch of youngsters set them up very nicely. The region, marketing, community involvement and masthead colours/name/etc. have shown foresight as well and been embraced from early on, but for now they are secondary/longer-term. And thirdly, the ability to keep trading those early picks into perpetuity. A fourth factor is that the Swans have been strong throughout their entire history and given them a local rival to aspire towards matching.

 

[t_94]

A large number of their top 20 draft picks have been busts. They've managed to flip them for more picks and talented pieces, and have made the most of pre-draft listings, role players and late picks.

They were still dealt a great hand to start with. Not really sure how that can be disputed tbh.

 

[Colonial]

They were still dealt a great hand to start with. Not really sure how that can be disputed tbh.

Would of preferred the head start of the southern clubs in a lot of ways.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Just dropped 30k on GWS. Easiest 90k winnings I've made

It's not that I don't believe you, but can you actually provide us with evidence that you put a wager of that size on ??

 

[The Warlord]

Even though my team is against them this weekend, even I was overwhelmed by how emotional the scenes were after the Collingwood match for them. One for the ages, no doubt.

But how did the AFL get this team so right?

The theme song, team colours and logo are killer.

The drafted and retained players really well, but I can’t really figure it out? How have the Giants been so successful whilst GC are complete and utter trash?

That Breakfast Point thing they did the first year or so was absolutely key.

It really bonded that group and built a culture others have bought into.

 

[The Warlord]

Ha, I knew someone at GWS in the early days and Sheedy's staff did most of the heavy lifting.
He is a brilliant salesman, I'll give hm that.

Of him up off the couch when he'd passed out pissed in the arvo.

 

[MF]

Just being in Sydney.

Ah yes... the secret ingredient that also made us an overnight success.

 

[The Warlord]

A large number of their top 20 draft picks have been busts. They've managed to flip them for more picks and talented pieces, and have made the most of pre-draft listings, role players and late picks.

Yep, they've worked out how to turn their initial draft concessions into a perpetual first round machine.

Trades like the Dees taking Tyson off them and using it to get Josh Kelly.

 

[The Warlord]

Sorry to burst your illusion but SOS didn’t pick the Pre-listed players, that was Nifty Neville Stibbard.

Could pick talent, had to overrule Pagan to draft Boomer Harvey.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Ha, I knew someone at GWS in the early days and Sheedy's staff did most of the heavy lifting.
He is a brilliant salesman, I'll give hm that.

Choco our this on the table recently. Said he was the coach of the Giants, Sheedy the face.

 

[vanders]

Being in a city people actually want to live in and also the players they got from other clubs are better leaders and wanted to be there.

Shaw, Davis & Ward have all been massive wins for GWS.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

GWS success is purely because of Sydney's 1.30am lockout laws. The players couldn't go out at night, even if they wanted to.

 

[Coaster2012]

Players get to move to the biggest city in Australia without the media circus. Now that's a destination club. They also got a few young guys that became fast mates and got a long and wanted to build something together.

 

[Kwality]

Feel for Shiel, quality person, deserves to be playing Saturday. Treloar, Scully and Devon Smith can fu** right off, try to stick the boots into the club ever since they left.

Players leaving, pressure on the salary cap was part of the AFL strategy that they got right.
With no skin in the game, think your are being a bit tough on some of the names effectively forced out as per the original strategy.

You missed Dom Tyson: .......recruited by the Greater Western Sydney Giants with the third selection in the 2011 AFL draft. He made his AFL debut in the 2012 season ...

Good luck !!

 

[Power Raid]

GWS started with a youth model, with some quality old guys to set the culture and example. The old guys were there for a set purpose for a set timeline.

GC went for a more ready made side with star talent to support the youth. Give it to Gary seemed to be an unhealthy focus. GC also had some real culture issues with the radical religous vs the party boys and druggies.

There was clearly many more factors at play.

 

[Freomaniac]

Can't blame Ablett.

Who were the other players they brought in?

Nathan Bock - Broken leg, never recovered
Karmichael Hunt - Drug problems
Nathan Krakouer - Took his money, played one season and left
Daniel Harris - Took his money, played 11 games and left
Danny Stanley - Delisted after 5 years
Jarred Brennan - Another guy that took his big pay check and retired after 3 years, never reached his potential
Josh Fraser - Only played for 2 years, was at the end anyway.
Campbell Brown - Broke teammates Jaw in a punch on at a club, and was delisted

Jarrod Harbrow - Still there
Michael Rischitelli - Just retired

How could you build a team around this absolute load of trash?

Gold Coast suns were Always going to struggle for the 1st 2-4 years.

At the time Ablett was a good pick up. If you want to pay big bucks for any player in the league, pay the big money to get the best player in the league and Build the team around him. That made sense.

If you had to Start a side from scratch, you get one of the best players in the league and build around a fyfe, dangerfield or Martin.

The thing was suns needed to get 8-10 players that came from AFL clubs. You were not going to have a new side and make them play 22 teenagers each week.

Bock: had a broken leg and was done.
Hunt: a marketing ploy that turned out to be a joke.
Krakouer: Looked good then was dropped for being unfit, revived his career Ironically at Port Adelaide.
Daniel Harris: Lasted 11 games, reitred with a groin injury
Danny Stanley: gone after 5 years of service
Brennan: was good but inconsistent
Fraser: Unwanted at Collingwood, lasted 2 years there.
Brown: Another bloke that lasted 3-4 years there

Harbrow: Solid servant
Rischitelli: Had a good 8 years there.

I didnt think all these players were absolute trash. They needed 8-10 players from other AFL clubs, maybe a few mature aged 20-24 year olds to fill the best 22 while the gun teenagers were growing

Most of those experienced blokes they picked up were in that 22-28 year old range.

Yeah they had a lot of 1st round picks in 2010.

the plan was to have a bunch of 18-19 year olds and 4 years later they would be 22-23 year olds with 50-70 games under the belt with those 8-10 experienced players making finals.

 

[SaltnPepperSam]

Didnt they basically ignore the AFLs recommendations for list management? They didn't go for 25+ stars, they used their cap on young talented early 20s (Ward, Davis, Scully) and then brought in winners like Brogan, Cornes and Power to set the culture and be effectively on-field coaches for the young guys while they were getting spanked.

They didn't want to compete immediately, it was always a 5+ year plan to get to the top. Also had the right coaching, admin and players locations down as people have mentioned

 

[Freomaniac]

GWS started with a youth model, with some quality old guys to set the culture and example. The old guys were there for a set purpose for a set timeline.

GC went for a more ready made side with star talent to support the youth. Give it to Gary seemed to be an unhealthy focus. GC also had some real culture issues with the radical religous vs the party boys and druggies.

There was clearly many more factors at play.

I was suprised the amount of 30 year olds GWS went after. James McDonald, Chad Cornes and Dean Brogan. I think all 3 hanged around for 2 seasons.

Then got some young players from other clubs like Callan Ward and Phil Davis.

Yes GWS had a lot of 1st round picks but they couldnt keep all the talent under the salary cap. Some players were traded off. GWS had a lot of Kids and pumped games into them. those 18-19 year old kids were 22-23 year olds with 50-70 games under the belt 4 years later. Yes guys like Devon Smith and Treloar were traded and they got 1st rounders back.

GWS reminded me of west coast in 1987. They only had 5-6 players with AFL experience from other clubs and a bunch of 18-21 year olds that 6 years later were 24-27 year olds that won the flag in 1992.


Suns as I mentioned what they did, they got 8-10 players aged between 22-28. Suns had 9 of the 1st 15 picks. Problem was some of those guys were average or duds or injury prone.

What the suns did looked ok at the time. Again, grab 8-10 guys in that 22-28 year range. Use those 1st rounders on 18 and 19 year olds. 4 years later, you got a bunch of 22-23 year olds to help with the established players.

Amazing that Suns have been in the comp for 9 years and still havent made finals

 

[master bate]

Didnt they basically ignore the AFLs recommendations for list management? They didn't go for 25+ stars, they used their cap on young talented early 20s (Ward, Davis, Scully) and then brought in winners like Brogan, Cornes and Power to set the culture and be effectively on-field coaches for the young guys while they were getting spanked.

They didn't want to compete immediately, it was always a 5+ year plan to get to the top. Also had the right coaching, admin and players locations down as people have mentioned

I love the idea that a few hobbling over 30 guys apparently set the culture up, with Sheeds and Choc Williams encouraging them to be lippy nutters despite copping 10 goal floggings. Their culture was to ignore the haters are just push through and really was formed because they had no choice. Fantastic siege mentality stuff. I'm not sure any of the older guys had any impact on field with playing or coaching advice, they just all ground through week after week believing in the plan and probably just being happy to still get paid handsomely.

They saw the Suns couldn't sign enough good senior players to get close to a decent side even with Gaz so went younger and pretty much tanked 3 years off the bat. Any other small club would've gone broke losing 10k members and having stuff all in the crowd but the Giants got a free pass from the AFL to be historically awful. Probably the most ridiculous list build model of any sport in the world but that's hardly a surprise with the AFL. Then mostly drafted midfielders who could withstand the losses because physically those guys are ready to compete early on. Jez Cameron was the ultimate gift because he's the rare young key forward with the athletic ability to play well when physically not ready without losing confidence or taking a beating (like Patton did).

They've made a bunch of smart list choices since including maybe some better draft choices (guys like Taylor and Daniels) and some good delisting pick ups (Reid from their own club and DeBoer both great choices) but once they broke through in 2016 they were pretty much a lock to get here at some stage, it's only a surprise it hasn't happened sooner.

The big ticks to have been Ward and Davis, the community programs, having a boutique stadium and training base and turning the negatives of a small club with a difficult task in to a great underdog vibe and maximising their Sydney location as a positive.

 

[Colonial]

Didnt they basically ignore the AFLs recommendations for list management? They didn't go for 25+ stars, they used their cap on young talented early 20s (Ward, Davis, Scully) and then brought in winners like Brogan, Cornes and Power to set the culture and be effectively on-field coaches for the young guys while they were getting spanked.

They didn't want to compete immediately, it was always a 5+ year plan to get to the top. Also had the right coaching, admin and players locations down as people have mentioned

They did do some digging willing to trade but were offered spuds and retirees for top picks. So the youth policy happened.

 

[Giant Gutsache]

Stevie J got them thinking and playing like ruthless winners in 2016.
His suspension from the preliminary final that year probably cost them a first GF appearance.
Aside from getting rubbed out he was a great leader.

 

[SaltnPepperSam]

I love the idea that a few hobbling over 30 guys apparently set the culture up, with Sheeds and Choc Williams encouraging them to be lippy nutters despite copping 10 goal floggings. Their culture was to ignore the haters are just push through and really was formed because they had no choice. Fantastic siege mentality stuff. I'm not sure any of the older guys had any impact on field with playing or coaching advice, they just all ground through week after week believing in the plan and probably just being happy to still get paid handsomely.

I truly believe that Cornes, Brogan and Power bring a lot (Even McDonald), they weren't just one and done around the club. They all stayed on in roles after their time playing, and having older guys who have won is truly invaluable for professionalism, mentoring and just picking their brains on how to deal with the life (especially Power and Cornes who were elite), compare it to Jarrad Brennan, Josh Fraser, Campbell Brown or Nathan Krakouer and you can see a difference in leadership and time with the club.

Luke Power: 1 season playing, 3 years coaching
Chad Cornes: 1 season playing, 3 years coaching
Brogan: 2 seasons playing, 4 years coaching
McDonald: 1 year playing, 1 year in full time mentorship before they entered the league with Vic players, 2 years coaching

Brennan: 3 years playing, 54 games
Krakouer: 1 year, 13 games
Brown: 3 years, 46 games - sacked by the club for breaking Mays jaw in a fight
Fraser: 2 years, 18 games - 2 years as NEAFL coach

 

[Monument Hills]

A team full of 1st round picks, more money than everyone else, in the beautiful city that is Sydney (at least in the rich part where the good players would live), without the fishbowl of Melbourne. It's really mindblowing how it all came together.