How did the AFL get the Giants so right?!

[Evolved1]

So infectious that he had them battling away on just 9 wins from 15 games in their 5th season when he got hurt.

Do people actually stop to think about the literal impact of him not being on the field as a player?

The bloke WAS the team. If they won a game, it was invariably because of him.

Suddenly he misses the best part of 3 seasons and they go sh1+house - oh well it must be because he’s cancerous, not because suddenly they’ve had one of the 5 greatest players of all time sidelined.

That's the point. Great player, shit leader.

 

[PhatBoy]

That's the point. Great player, s**t leader.

Was he a great leader?
No.
Was he so bad that it was his fault they fell apart?
No.

 

[Nugett]

An unlimited cap?

 

[harper2bastinac]

Unlimited resources from the afl and a sniper who can eye gouge and get away with it?

 

[The Nostradamus]

No salary cap for GilWS??

Let’s be conservative
Let’s be naive and say only cogs is on a mil

Cameron, Whitfield, kelly, Taranto, Greene, Davis, Ward these 7 instead of being closer or on a mil let’s say 750k to be conservative

That’s 8 players taking up 6.25 mil of the cap
Leaving 36 players with the other half
Are the remainder 36 players playing for an average of 170k each to fit in the cap?

I haven’t even brought up hopper himmelberg Haynes Williams yet

 

[The Nostradamus]

[emoji1787]View attachment 795352

Giants players playing for free apparently

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

No salary cap for GilWS??

Let’s be conservative
Let’s be naive and say only cogs is on a mil

Cameron, Whitfield, kelly, Taranto, Greene, Davis, Ward these 7 instead of being closer or on a mil let’s say 750k to be conservative

That’s 8 players taking up 6.25 mil of the cap
Leaving 36 players with the other half
Are the remainder 36 players playing for an average of 170k each to fit in the cap?

I haven’t even brought up hopper himmelberg Haynes Williams yet

The Giants are not a feeder club for the Southern State Clubs and they have never used their cap in a big way to lure stars from other clubs, aside from the Scilly misfire and Ryan Griffin.

They have also lost a lot of good and required players to other clubs.

Time to build a bridge over Josh Kelly rejecting North and get over it.

You do realise that with many of these 5/7 year deals for their gun players, contracts can be front or back loaded, it's partly because of that'kind of cap space flexibility which means the Giants can afford to keep all their gun players.

It's getting embarrassing now, all this paranoia and assumptions that The Giants are cheating/rorting the cap. Richmond have arguably got more A grade players on their list now than GWS, no one is questioning their cap space, especially after adding Tom Lynch as a Free Agent.

 

[The Nostradamus]

The Giants are not a feeder club for the Southern State Clubs and they have never used their cap in a big way to lure stars from other clubs, aside from the Scilly misfire and Ryan Griffin.

They have also lost a lot of good and required players to other clubs.

Time to build a bridge over Josh Kelly rejecting North and get over it.

You do realise that with many of these 5/7 year deals for their gun players, contracts can be front or back loaded, it's partly because of that'kind of cap space flexibility which means the Giants can afford to keep all their gun players.

It's getting embarrassing now, all this paranoia and assumptions that The Giants are cheating/rorting the cap. Richmond have arguably got more A grade players on their list now than GWS, no one is questioning their cap space, especially after adding Tom Lynch as a Free Agent.

Ricmond don’t need to match or come that close to offers for opposing clubs they don’t need to deal with the go home factor that gws have to

They also don’t have the amount of top end talent that giants do on big contracts

 

[Firestarter]

They haven't won anything but sure...

 

[HairyO]

Thread for now should be "almost right".

The amount of talent they have had its insane they only made 1 GF and even then got utterly flogged.

 

[Americanpies]

Thread for now should be "almost right".

The amount of talent they have had its insane they only made 1 GF and even then got utterly flogged.

Money can buy the best players. But It cannot buy a will to win and a desire to bleed for your club. Teams that win grand finals are full of guys that would probably just about die for their club. Are Giants players passionate enough about that club that they would do what Jack Graham did? Why didn't Whitfield rule himself out.. he clearly wasn't right. And then all that energy wasted with Toby Greene's garbage in the weeks leading up. Bunch of selfish money chasing Hollywood clowns.

 

[HairyO]

Money can buy the best players. But It cannot buy a will to win and a desire to bleed for your club. Teams that win grand finals are full of guys that would probably just about die for their club. Are Giants players passionate enough about that club that they would do what Jack Graham did? Why didn't Whitfield rule himself out.. he clearly wasn't right. And then all that energy wasted with Toby Greene's garbage in the weeks leading up. Bunch of selfish money chasing Hollywood clowns.

The irony of turning down big money offers to stay with the team for success, only to be witches hats in the GF.

 

[Scotland]

Thread for now should be "almost right".

The amount of talent they have had its insane they only made 1 GF and even then got utterly flogged.

Winning flags is a tough gig. My team is a financial powerhouse and had 1980s VFL/AFL transition period list concessions and won 2 flags in 11 finals attempts and has 4 today.

I reckon GWS is a success from the point of being at least competitive for the last 5 of their 8 seasons. Hosted a prelim, won an away prelim but were awful in their one GF appearance. Whitfield, Greene, Kelly, Coniglio, Deledio (pasties, but on paper still a star), Ward all played under 20 games this year. Add those guys into most sides and you'd probably beat Richmond.

It's a team that still not a lot of people really care about (they get some 15k crowds boosted by travelling Victorians) that has lost almost an AFL standard 22 from since inception, so the fact they aren't where Gold Coast are right now is a win for AFL HQ. How did they get it right?

1. Purposefully OTT draft concessions. Can't keep all of Treloar, Adams, Coniglio etc. once they are established, but if you start with half as many you can still lose just as many good ones. The mini draft was an ill conceived extra leg up for GWS which netted them in total 6 additional first round picks and no experienced players.

2. Better draft, better drafting. Gold Coast got Dixon and May as zone selections, and Thompson is alright. The rest nothing to write home about. In the 2010 draft they got some good players but only Lynch has proven to be a star you build around. GWS got Treloar, Shiel, Cameron, Wilson as 17 year olds then Coniglio, Greene, Adams, Smith in the draft.

3. Better retention. Both expansion teams lost players, GWS kept a bunch of good ones. Gold Coast have kept Harbrow, Swallow, Day. They also traded with GWS for two of the 4 mini draft picks used, O'Meara (Haw) and Martin (Carl). Gold Coast Exers would comfortably beat the Gold Coast 2019 side.

4. Better leadership. Guy McKenna was a star and as a coach had GC playing good footy but he's no Kevin Sheedy who has been around forever and is all about growing the game in new markets etc. GC brought in Ablett as captain, GWS opted for Phil Davis and Luke Power and since Callan Ward and now Coniglio. Ablett's the best player of the lot by a mile but arguably the worst leader. Davis and Ward are the sort of players who would get KOd rather than shirk a contest. Meanwhile Ablett reportedly wasn't doing his shoulder rehab to the club's satisfaction and went to some Jesus festival instead of attending a game.

5. Better recruitment and trading. GWS opted for McDonald, Brogan, Cornes and Power to start with as old heads, plus Scully, Ward and Davis who were all young. They've since attacted Stevie J, Patfull, Shaw, Mumford, Griffen, Deledio in various trades. Gold Coast added Harbrow who has been great and Bock, Krakouer, Brown, Harmichael etc. who were less then fantastic influences. They signed Hanley who wanted out of Brisbane but players haven't really wanted to go there for years. They had to give up pick 2 to get Lachie Weller who was a local originally. Guys like Barlow, Rosa, Lyons etc. have all come and gone for various reasons.

6. Academy system. Since 2014 Steele, Finlayson, Hopper, Kennedy, Himmelberg, Flynn, Setterfield, Perryman, Cumming, Tiziani, Briggs, Green have all come from academy bidding. And they've still used 8 first round picks in that time. Some of those players have already left, but it's been a huge advantage.

I'm not completely down on GC, though. Brisbane had a stink about them not long ago and look at them now. Fortunes can change with a few good people in place.

 

[Noah Ryan]

They just were lucky they had all those original picks in a superdraft, Gold Coast's draft year was a poor draft.

 

[Hawk_francais]

They just were lucky they had all those original picks in a superdraft, Gold Coast's draft year was a poor draft.

I assume you're talking about 2011, when they had 11 picks in the top 15? Only 3 players from that crop are actually best 22 at GWS (Coniglio, Haynes, Greene). In fact, when you look at their drafting 2011-2014, they've had a pretty woeful success rate given the number of top ten picks they've had.

2011-2014

Pickett
Ahern
Marchbank
Boyd
Kelly
Plowman
O'Rourke
Whitfield
Patton
Coniglio
Tyson
Hoskin-Elliot
Buntine
Haynes
Tomlinson
Sumner

That's 4 best 22 players from 16 top 10 selections. When you look at the highly rated talent that was still on the table at their picks: Docherty, Wines, Stringer, Macrae, Vlastuin, Cripps, Bontempelli, De Goey, Lever...

Drafting is not an exact science and I won't criticise SOS too much, but it's beyond a stretch to say they got 'lucky' with the draft.

 

[Kappa]

No salary cap for GilWS??

Let’s be conservative
Let’s be naive and say only cogs is on a mil

Cameron, Whitfield, kelly, Taranto, Greene, Davis, Ward these 7 instead of being closer or on a mil let’s say 750k to be conservative

That’s 8 players taking up 6.25 mil of the cap
Leaving 36 players with the other half
Are the remainder 36 players playing for an average of 170k each to fit in the cap?

I haven’t even brought up hopper himmelberg Haynes Williams yet

Ward and Davis are both 30 now and love the club, right now they're only worth 500k but could take unders due to be captains and loving the group... Both could easily be on 400k for all you know. Greene could be on 600k, Taranto who knows... 500k? All you have is baseless speculation and hyper-inflated assumptions of AFL players salaries.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Ward and Davis are both 30 now and love the club, right now they're only worth 500k but could take unders due to be captains and loving the group... Both could easily be on 400k for all you know. Greene could be on 600k, Taranto who knows... 500k? All you have is baseless speculation and hyper-inflated assumptions of AFL players salaries.

Ward and Davis are contracted for another few years meaning they signed this when they were at their peak a few years ago as their big money contract

 

[Kappa]

Ward and Davis are contracted for another few years meaning they signed this when they were at their peak a few years ago as their big money contract

How do you know what money they signed for? Maybe they were heavily front ended are on very small salaries now? Maybe they didn't sign for as much money as you think?

 

[The Nostradamus]

How do you know what money they signed for? Maybe they were heavily front ended are on very small salaries now? Maybe they didn't sign for as much money as you think?

Maybe the world ends tomorrow

 

[Kappa]

Maybe the world ends tomorrow

Genius...

 

[The Nostradamus]

Genius...

Thanks

 

[Kappa]

Thanks

What I want to know is what happened to the North Melbourne salary "cap"

You've got Shaun Higgins, AA superstar - 1 mil

Ziebell - Superstar (750+)

Polec - Big recruit from another club (700k)

Goldstein - 800k

Ben Brown - 800k+

Hall - 600k

Pittard - 500k

Cunnington - 600k

That barely leaves any money for the other 35 guys on the list.... Seems a bit suspicious, no?

 

[The Nostradamus]

What I want to know is what happened to the North Melbourne salary "cap"

You've got Shaun Higgins, AA superstar - 1 mil

Ziebell - Superstar (750+)

Polec - Big recruit from another club (700k)

Goldstein - 800k

Ben Brown - 800k+

Hall - 600k

Pittard - 500k

Cunnington - 600k

That barely leaves any money for the other 35 guys on the list.... Seems a bit suspicious, no?

Lol Nice try

If there’s any team who can be in this argument it’s us with us needing to front load just to hit the minimum

A pies fan talking About salary caps is amusing

Good luck trying to keep Grundy on his 7 year 1 mil per year contract plus DeGoey and Moore and pendles and Cox all out of contract

 

[Kappa]

Lol Nice try

If there’s any team who can be in this argument it’s us with us needing to front load just to hit the minimum

A pies fan talking About salary caps is amusing

Good luck trying to keep Grundy on his 7 year 1 mil per year contract plus DeGoey and Moore and pendles and Cox all out of contract

I think I need to simplify this even further for you...

 

[The Nostradamus]

I think I need to simplify this even further for you...

Out of curiosity whose the weird dude with the punchable head in your profile pic?