How is Nathan Freeman progressing?

[Kappa]

Great player? At the moment he just runs hard to get into positions to get lots of cheap possessions. I haven't seen any WOW moments that great players provide. Player like De Goey at VFL level have provided some very impressive plays. I'd be more impressed if he either wins his own ball or actually uses his pace to break lines.

Before people start having a hissy fit saying I hate freeman. I don't have a problem with him and he has plenty of time to improve. I have a problem with people making out like he is great based on his draft position and pre season training reports rather than what he actual does on the field.

You have a good point Andy and it goes back to what Knightmare said pre-draft that he was very much a handball-receive player and there was question marks can he go win his own footy? I wouldn't underestimate just how much damage an extremely bad hamstring injury does to a player mentally, it's going to take him time to trust his hammies aren't going to go again when he goes flat out... I expect him to drastically improve over the next few weeks, and he has been good (not great) so far early in his VFL time.

 

[Knightmare]

You have a good point Andy and it goes back to what Knightmare said pre-draft that he was very much a handball-receive player and there was question marks can he go win his own footy? I wouldn't underestimate just how much damage an extremely bad hamstring injury does to a player mentally, it's going to take him time to trust his hammies aren't going to go again when he goes flat out... I expect him to drastically improve over the next few weeks, and he has been good (not great) so far early in his VFL time.

It's interesting that you bring up my evaluation of Freeman when drafted. And without games since, it's hard for his game to evolve without that time on the field.

But the reality for the time being remains the same with Freeman. He is more a receiver, and he doesn't necessarily link up overly well either. So he has his limitations while athletically being incredible both for speed, repeat speed and endurance, but then also being an efficient user of the footy by hand and foot. He wins enough ball to get by, but as a strong body, he needs to elevate that area of his game.

Even with Freeman's limitations, he can be of great usefulness to our team. We need guys who can do everything he can do, and if you have the guys who can get first possession, but Freeman next to them, and he can go pretty well at AFL level, maybe as soon as this season. But he needs to improve as a contested ball winner, become a more threatening mark forward of centre and become a smarter outside runner to find more easy outside ball and linkup better. If he can learn to do those bits and pieces, he can be terrific.

But that next evolution in Freeman's game. I'd love to see him develop that hunger of a Taylor Adams to get his hands dirty at the coal face. If he gets that and eventually thrives on that side of the game. That's when we're looking at a star.

But for now my best guess is he becomes something pretty similar to Luke Shuey, as our roughly Shuey equivalent. And that's still fine. But that's really the expectation, and if he can surpass that level of play, that's when you'll be happy with his achievements.

 

[Kappa]

It's interesting that you bring up my evaluation of Freeman when drafted. And without games since, it's hard for his game to evolve without that time on the field.

But the reality for the time being remains the same with Freeman. He is more a receiver, and he doesn't necessarily link up overly well either. So he has his limitations while athletically being incredible both for speed, repeat speed and endurance, but then also being an efficient user of the footy by hand and foot. He wins enough ball to get by, but as a strong body, he needs to elevate that area of his game.

Even with Freeman's limitations, he can be of great usefulness to our team. We need guys who can do everything he can do, and if you have the guys who can get first possession, but Freeman next to them, and he can go pretty well at AFL level, maybe as soon as this season. But he needs to improve as a contested ball winner, become a more threatening mark forward of centre and become a smarter outside runner to find more easy outside ball and linkup better. If he can learn to do those bits and pieces, he can be terrific.

But that next evolution in Freeman's game. I'd love to see him develop that hunger of a Taylor Adams to get his hands dirty at the coal face. If he gets that and eventually thrives on that side of the game. That's when we're looking at a star.

But for now my best guess is he becomes something pretty similar to Luke Shuey, as our roughly Shuey equivalent. And that's still fine. But that's really the expectation, and if he can surpass that level of play, that's when you'll be happy with his achievements.

Agree, Buckley needs to put him head to head with Taylor Adams and training and put a football between them and say go get it boys. If Freeman can develop that inside ability and starts to use his speed on the outside and to break away from stoppages he suddenly is not too far away from being the next Judd. But of course those are just hypotheticals, not every kid is going to develop perfectly and he has a long way to go.

 

[Bard]

It's interesting that you bring up my evaluation of Freeman when drafted. And without games since, it's hard for his game to evolve without that time on the field.

But the reality for the time being remains the same with Freeman. He is more a receiver, and he doesn't necessarily link up overly well either. So he has his limitations while athletically being incredible both for speed, repeat speed and endurance, but then also being an efficient user of the footy by hand and foot. He wins enough ball to get by, but as a strong body, he needs to elevate that area of his game.

Even with Freeman's limitations, he can be of great usefulness to our team. We need guys who can do everything he can do, and if you have the guys who can get first possession, but Freeman next to them, and he can go pretty well at AFL level, maybe as soon as this season. But he needs to improve as a contested ball winner, become a more threatening mark forward of centre and become a smarter outside runner to find more easy outside ball and linkup better. If he can learn to do those bits and pieces, he can be terrific.

But that next evolution in Freeman's game. I'd love to see him develop that hunger of a Taylor Adams to get his hands dirty at the coal face. If he gets that and eventually thrives on that side of the game. That's when we're looking at a star.

But for now my best guess is he becomes something pretty similar to Luke Shuey, as our roughly Shuey equivalent. And that's still fine. But that's really the expectation, and if he can surpass that level of play, that's when you'll be happy with his achievements.

Sounds similar to Rich to me, perhaps with slightly less penetration in his kicking. Let's hope he can develop his possession game unlike Rich, and I don't see why he can't.

 

[Knightmare]

Sounds similar to Rich to me, perhaps with slightly less penetration in his kicking. Let's hope he can develop his possession game unlike Rich, and I don't see why he can't.

By foot Freeman is more like Sidebottom in the sense that he isn't damaging but he is relatively efficient. But for pace and endurance Freeman is far superior to Rich. So they have different games built around different strengths.

The similarities with both Freeman and Rich for me I see more in the weakness categories. Neither are dominant contested ball winners and need to improve in that area to reach that next level and both really struggle to find easy ball unless guys really intend to feed it to them in which case those non contested possessions will be your "cheap" possessions if you like.

 

[Ketchup]

By foot Freeman is more like Sidebottom in the sense that he isn't damaging but he is relatively efficient. But for pace and endurance Freeman is far superior to Rich. So they have different games built around different strengths.

The similarities with both Freeman and Rich for me I see more in the weakness categories. Neither are dominant contested ball winners and need to improve in that area to reach that next level and both really struggle to find easy ball unless guys really intend to feed it to them in which case those non contested possessions will be your "cheap" possessions if you like.

From the outset, I know you have said that he needs to win his own ball, always just from watching him, and even the small sample size of VFL and NAB that we have from him. I think he just has trouble getting the ball in general. Rich obviously does not have this issue, but I can't see Freeman becoming a regular 20-25 disposal winner despite him being extremely fit based on this pre season. Or do you think these numbers will run up when he can start winning his own pill?

 

[THATSGOLD]

By foot Freeman is more like Sidebottom in the sense that he isn't damaging but he is relatively efficient. But for pace and endurance Freeman is far superior to Rich. So they have different games built around different strengths.

The similarities with both Freeman and Rich for me I see more in the weakness categories. Neither are dominant contested ball winners and need to improve in that area to reach that next level and both really struggle to find easy ball unless guys really intend to feed it to them in which case those non contested possessions will be your "cheap" possessions if you like.

Sidebottom always had a footy brain, knows who to and where to kick it to, Freeman just kicks it more in hope, no poise and lacks balance.
Freeman isn't a thinker. Just a rush it type player.

 

[Knightmare]

From the outset, I know you have said that he needs to win his own ball, always just from watching him, and even the small sample size of VFL and NAB that we have from him. I think he just has trouble getting the ball in general. Rich obviously does not have this issue, but I can't see Freeman becoming a regular 20-25 disposal winner despite him being extremely fit based on this pre season. Or do you think these numbers will run up when he can start winning his own pill?

He'll win some ball. He isn't allergic to winning the contested footy by any means, he can still win some contested ball, but given the size and shape of his body, my observation is he needs to go from able to win some contested ball to a dominant contested ball winner. He can reach the 20-25 disposal mark with regular midfield minutes down the track and that's who he was in the TAC Cup last year, so it's not beyond him. I just don't see him being a 25+ disposal mid, or at least he hasn't convinced me just yet that he will reach those heights and become that elite mid people likely will be hoping given his mix of attributes.

 

[Knightmare]

Sidebottom always had a footy brain, knows who to and where to kick it to, Freeman just kicks it more in hope, no poise.

Freeman was a 60%+ by foot in the TAC Cup and 65%+ by foot through the u18 champs (2013). That's good for a guy who plays primarily as an inside mid.

There is an element of rust with Freeman at this point. That will improve with more time at VFL level and then eventually AFL level. He can slow down, take time to assess options and make the right decision. But probably early season my interpretation has been that he has tried to do too much and is doing his best to impress, and as a result, he isn't taking his usual time to use the ball efficiently and find his target.

When I think of guys kicking it more in hope, Dayne Beams comes to mind. Not lowering his eyes and after winning it from a centre bounce just blasting it forward in hope, not really to anyone.

Freeman is more from the Chris Judd/Patrick Dangerfield school. He is nothing close to either and not that dominant contested ball winner. But like Judd and Danger, he'll look to up and run it if there is space in front of him, or if not he'll go more the Sidebottom mode and do the efficient thing and go the higher percentage option - not looking to do damage but look to find an available short-medium distance target, be it by hand or foot.

 

[Kappa]

From the outset, I know you have said that he needs to win his own ball, always just from watching him, and even the small sample size of VFL and NAB that we have from him. I think he just has trouble getting the ball in general. Rich obviously does not have this issue, but I can't see Freeman becoming a regular 20-25 disposal winner despite him being extremely fit based on this pre season. Or do you think these numbers will run up when he can start winning his own pill?

He got over 20 possessions in the VFL

 

[jackcass]

I want to see him in the seniors pretty soon.

I was strong on him coming into the team instead of Dwyer (for Sinclair) based on his preseason form but then he had a quiet game v Nth Ballarat, and followed up with another less than inspiring game v Essendon so maybe he's not quite ready. Hopefully he starts to impact games more consistently and gets a debut game but I'm happy for him to have to earn it.

 

[Kappa]

I was strong on him coming into the team instead of Dwyer (for Sinclair) based on his preseason form but then he had a quiet game v Nth Ballarat, and followed up with another less than inspiring game v Essendon so maybe he's not quite ready. Hopefully he starts to impact games more consistently and gets a debut game but I'm happy for him to have to earn it.

How many people in the entire AFL are ready to go straight into the AFL coming off a year long injury? Let alone 2nd year kids.. I think most of us are expecting too much from him early because he expect top 10 draft picks to dominate from day 1.

I have full confidence he'll reach the level of Beams/Pendlebury/Swan/Sidebottom

 

[loki04]

He got over 20 possessions in the VFL

Has every VFL game.

Freeman is tracking ok, it is true that he does need to utilise his weapons more as atm he is playing within himself and "safe". Development year beckons and we just have to be patient as much as I want him blitzing from day dot just doesn't always pan out that way with top 10 picks.

 

[loki04]

Sidebottom always had a footy brain, knows who to and where to kick it to, Freeman just kicks it more in hope, no poise and lacks balance.
Freeman isn't a thinker. Just a rush it type player.

Did you watch him vs Ess?

I only watched the 1st half but he hit a target with almost every disposal clean and efficiently. The gripe I had was that on some of those occasions he immediately looked for the safe option instead of using his pace to break the lines or congestion and go more direct kick forward.

He is capable of it as he showed a few times the previous week we just need to develop him into this as a default mode.

 

[Bard]

How many people in the entire AFL are ready to go straight into the AFL coming off a year long injury? Let alone 2nd year kids.. I think most of us are expecting too much from him early because he expect top 10 draft picks to dominate from day 1.

I have full confidence he'll reach the level of Beams/Pendlebury/Swan/Sidebottom

Yep, there's a reason kids like Wines and O'Meara are so highly praised, because they could come in and have a serious impact on games from day one. Their names wouldn't stand out if every top 10 pick could manage this.

 

[HappyRed]

What is his goal kicking accuracy like ? And can the man tag or does he draws free kicks any good ?

 

[Scodog10]

Great player? At the moment he just runs hard to get into positions to get lots of cheap possessions. I haven't seen any WOW moments that great players provide. Player like De Goey at VFL level have provided some very impressive plays. I'd be more impressed if he either wins his own ball or actually uses his pace to break lines.

Before people start having a hissy fit saying I hate freeman. I don't have a problem with him and he has plenty of time to improve. I have a problem with people making out like he is great based on his draft position and pre season training reports rather than what he actual does on the field.

Perhaps it was just poorly worded and the word "potentially" was missed?

From what I have seen of him (limited) he's got the build of an insider and doesn't win any inside ball, but he also has the traits of an outsider and doesn't really use them. If his development stalled right now I would project him to wind up a player much like Tony Armstrong.

What I would advise the club to do is focus on one area (inside or out) and build on it because it would be a monumental task to bring both areas of his game to above average AFL standard. He doesn't have the natural ball hunting instincts of DeGoey, Adams, Greenwood & Ball so I think it would be wiser to focus on developing his outside game because he does know how to find the ball in space relatively well.

The type of player I'm talking is a more rounded version of Matt White it's a type we really lack ATM and though people will offer Seedsman I see him more in the Hartlett/ Hanley mould. A more polished version of Matt White getting it 25 times a game on top of our current mix could prove very handy.

In 2015 if he's not using those traits because of a lack of confidence in his body then I'd imagine we'll see him later in the year. If it's a learning the role issue, much like Reid in 09, I don't think it would be wise to use him at senior level at all other than a token game to give him a taste or if injuries bite hard. I'd also like to see some more defensive run as well. It's not Beams poor, but it ain't good currently.

 

[Scodog10]

What is his goal kicking accuracy like ? And can the man tag or does he draws free kicks any good ?

IMO, neither is particularly relevant.

He isn't a marking option, he isn't a good rover (as mentioned above) and his main strength is finding it in space which is hard to get in the forward 50.

We also aren't using him as a tagger moving forward. That role is going the way of the dodo and anyone we'd send him to would just push into the middle and they'll lose him because he lacks inside instincts.

 

[Apex36]

Did you watch him vs Ess?

Doubt he's actually watched him at all from his description. Freeman is the furthest thing from a kick-it-and-hope player possible.

 

[jackcass]

How many people in the entire AFL are ready to go straight into the AFL coming off a year long injury? Let alone 2nd year kids.. I think most of us are expecting too much from him early because he expect top 10 draft picks to dominate from day 1.

I have full confidence he'll reach the level of Beams/Pendlebury/Swan/Sidebottom

My urge to see him selected ahead of Dwyer wasn't some misplaced expectations, it was based purely on his preseason form. I'm not expecting anything, I'm hoping. And I certainly don't have higher expections of a more immediate impact based on draft position. Again it's a hope that these higher draft picks will have greater impact over their careers than players picked later in the draft, and that higher picks means a greater chance of selecting 100+ gamer or a 200+ gamer.

 

[Soaring Magpie]

Freeman will add something this side really lacks... Linebreakers, to be able to receive the ball from the likes of Adams and be able to break away from the contest at speed. Really looking forward to seeing him in action later this year

 

[tommyv49]

Not every great player comes in and dominates immeadiately. Let's ease up on this bloke. He's come off a LTI there probably inst 100% trust in his body yet. It's practically his first season.
He was rated at number 10 for a reason i'll back our club to develop him to reach his potential. Not what the BF peanut gallery says about him.

 

[pieanitis]

Maybe a defensive role is exactly what he needs at the minute. Clearly he hasn't worked out the balance of when to defend and when to attack and until he learns that basic element of the game its not even worth debating other areas of his game or whether or not he should be in the team. IMO that is what's keeping him out, he improves that area and he jumps a few spots closer to playing his first AFL game.

Degoey, Goodyear, Maynard and even Manteit are more advanced with their defensive attributes at this stage. And although bar Degoey we could argue Freeman is more talented overall than the company i mentioned, these kids will be more beneficial long term to the club than Freeman if he doesn't grasp a team first mentality. Earlier when i mentioned great player, perhaps i should of mentioned the word potential first, however I've seen enough this year to suggest that if he does adopt more of a team focus, improves his contested ability (although i don't share the opinion that this area has been woeful this year) and use his combination of speed an endurance more effectively he could certainly be a special sort of player for us. At the moment he just looks like that u14 gun who wants the ball in his hand all the time (even if he's in the wrong position), needs to kick goals and will only track back into defense if he can get an easy uncontested possy and not to genuinely support the backline.

Really looking forward to watching him closer this week, particularly with all this healthy debate in mind.

 

[swoop42]

Freeman really needs to be treated as a first year player this season with expectations to match.

We've only played 4 rounds so whether it be another month or three at VFL level he'll still have time to make a mark on the senior side this season if his form warrants selection.

It might end up being not such a bad thing if players like him, Kennedy, De Goey, Moore, Marsh and Scharenberg can't break into the side until the second half of the season.

It would provide some renewed spark when other young players need a rest and enable us to manage the workload of senior players if finals are looking possible.

 

[swoop42]

Not every great player comes in and dominates immeadiately. Let's ease up on this bloke. He's come off a LTI there probably inst 100% trust in his body yet. It's practically his first season.
He was rated at number 10 for a reason i'll back our club to develop him to reach his potential. Not what the BF peanut gallery says about him.

It's important to remember that Swanny wasn't Swanny at the beginning.