Analysis How the state of the game has evolved, is the increased rate of injuries a result of of the evolution

[mxett]

I honestly dont understand how you guys can possibly think that a 50/50 contest wont get help from a teammate 30 odd metres away because he is too tired, or that other team mates wont help the bloke running to help the contest.

No interchanges will force the fittest 18 players on the field regardless. You see players " resting " on the ground anyways, most gun midfielders will have a spell forward . Slower tired players aren't going to speed the game up. You will see the ruck template gone altogether, forward lines will be smaller .

I honestly think the reason for more congestion is with what players can and can't do in a contest whether marking or on the ground. Less body work is allowed, strictness with shepparding, holding, chopping the arms, blocking the run to contests. It is alot harder for defenders to defend solo so setting zone defence, get the ball to ground and best case scenario rebound the ball. Worst case it gets locked up in congestion and stem opposition offence.

Give defenders a fair go and i think it will help free up play. Forwards will become stronger naturally as they can muscle and wrestle a bit more too.

a teammate getting to the contest is fine. It's when the other 17 teammates are also within 50m of the contest, and 12 of them within 5m, that it becomes a farce, and that's happening repeatedly now.

You only have to compare the start of every game to the end. The start is usually very scrappy, very congested, poor skills, lots of pressure and lots of mistakes. This is because players are fressh so they can make it to most contests to congest the play. By the last quarter most players are buggered, defensive pressure drops off, the ball moves more freely, and the scoring increases. Less players within 50m of the ball means there is room for the player with the ball to move and find a teammate. Once that teammate get the ball there are more options further afield because players are more spread out. At the moment when a turnover occurs the player has to stall or pass sideways because there's no one ahead of the ball to kick to

 

[schnoods]

a teammate getting to the contest is fine. It's when the other 17 teammates are also within 50m of the contest, and 12 of them within 5m, that it becomes a farce, and that's happening repeatedly now.

You only have to compare the start of every game to the end. The start is usually very scrappy, very congested, poor skills, lots of pressure and lots of mistakes. This is because players are fressh so they can make it to most contests to congest the play. By the last quarter most players are buggered, defensive pressure drops off, the ball moves more freely, and the scoring increases. Less players within 50m of the ball means there is room for the player with the ball to move and find a teammate. Once that teammate get the ball there are more options further afield because players are more spread out. At the moment when a turnover occurs the player has to stall or pass sideways because there's no one ahead of the ball to kick to

Players will still gut run to compete, interchanges have been capped and reduced to a negative effect. Getting rid of it all together will only evolve the game to more athletes than footballers, kill anything that resembles positions including rucks and forwards, higher injury rates and probably be vetoed by every coach in the game and the AFLPA. The game will end up closer to rugby7s and AFLW and lose spectators.

 

[Fabab]

Skill levels are terrible at the moment,are clubs recruiting athletes and hoping to coach skills or is there too many clubs and lack of enough quality to go around?

 

[VicPark Bitter]

we are in this horrible mess because coaches started to use the interchange to rest players so frequently they had the capacity to run the length of the ground relentlessly. We now effectively have 18 midfielders who crowd the contest within 50m of the ball for every stoppage. If players cant rest on the bench they will need to rest on the ground when the ball is not in their vicinity., rather than following the ball continuously.

remember the days when the "on ballers" rested/rotated out of the forward line.

 

[footyfan1978]

Or perhaps when inevitably there is a stoppage there will only be more repeat stoppages as clearances will be harder, less fend offs and breaking tackles.

I honestly just dont see how knackered players conserving energy will make the game better in the short term.

In the long term the drafting will look to more steeple chase runners, tri athletes or the super athletic builds, ruckman will be athletic 195cm types as a 110kg 200cm+ ruck will be obsolete. Hamstring and ankle injuries will be rediculously high and then they'll call for shorter quarters as the game is exhausting.

You could not get it more wrong. The game is about ball movement and kicking goals. Not about steeple chase runners. Recruiters will look for guys that have football skills first, second and third then.

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

remember the days when the "on ballers" rested/rotated out of the forward line.

Tigers have been doing this a whole lot more during the past 18 months or so. "resting" our lone ruckman too by leaving him in defensive 50 or the centre rather than covering the whole ground. Seems to be helping not only our forward line function, but also our endurance and ability to run out games. We've seen a bit more of it this year too from other teams and I'm expecting a lot more of hit with the high tempo footy being played at the moment.

 

[Jables]

The evolution of the game has been quashed at every turn by the AFL and '80's footy was perfect' proponents at every turn, and now we are seeing the logical conclusion. The more you try to slow the game down and force one on contests, the more I cannot help but say, well of course we were going to get more slogfest games.
Now the rule changes never stopped us directly, but we played a good brand of footy the past 10 years and I'd challenge anyone to deny there were a lot of rule changes targeting our and some other top sides style directly, 3rd man up to clear the ball of congestion to where we wanted, high rotations for a faster paced and more open game allowing a high disposal efficiency and gut busting runs from Buddy, Smith and Hill. It was sublime, but Bartlett hated it so it had to go, Collingwood and us perfected shepherding the man on the mark, why the **** did that have to go?

Coaches were never allowed to develop a true solution to just flooding and surrounding the ball with pressure while limiting options downfield when things aren't going well, precisely because of the exact same alarmists bemoaning the state of the game. Skills are the same as they ever were. You wanna slow the game down and tire players, this is what you get.

 

[afl genius]

media all over it too. I reckon I heard it mentioned in every game so far this round

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

The evolution of the game has been quashed at every turn by the AFL and '80's footy was perfect' proponents at every turn, and now we are seeing the logical conclusion. The more you try to slow the game down and force one on contests, the more I cannot help but say, well of course we were going to get more slogfest games.
Now the rule changes never stopped us directly, but we played a good brand of footy the past 10 years and I'd challenge anyone to deny there were a lot of rule changes targeting our and some other top sides style directly, 3rd man up to clear the ball of congestion to where we wanted, high rotations for a faster paced and more open game allowing a high disposal efficiency and gut busting runs from Buddy, Smith and Hill. It was sublime, but Bartlett hated it so it had to go, Collingwood and us perfected shepherding the man on the mark, why the **** did that have to go?

Coaches were never allowed to develop a true solution to just flooding and surrounding the ball with pressure while limiting options downfield when things aren't going well, precisely because of the exact same alarmists bemoaning the state of the game. Skills are the same as they ever were. You wanna slow the game down and tire players, this is what you get.

Been thinking especially about the 3rd man up rule lately. All the hoo hah about that and it's one of the major contributing factors to the mess we're in now. Commentary were talking about it on Saturday arvo games too. With the nomination rubbish the umpire takes so long to get the ball in the air, there's been about 15-30 seconds for as many players as possible to run towards the ball up.

 

[Macpotata]

Two north players missing snaps on the left foot in the 3rd was horrendous. They're lucky they won that game because they would have been kicking themselves if they blew it. Even in the last they shanked numerous chances.

Lewis Taylor today squaring the ball when he should have snapped it as well as a few more times in the Lions Pies game and Dees game also campaigners chipping it 10-15 metres when they should be shooting for goal. They're too scared to have a shot when it's exactly what they should be doing.


Holding the ball rule? Wtf? That's as bad as it's ever been players getting pinged 3 times in a row and nothing. Between this and poor kicking for goal, too scared to shoot, it's pretty poor.

 

[Ron The Bear]

With the nomination rubbish the umpire takes so long to get the ball in the air, there's been about 15-30 seconds for as many players as possible to run towards the ball up.

Look at old sports videos and it's noticeable how players simply "got on with it", be it footy, cricket, tennis or whatever. Professionalism has resulted in players and officials "setting themselves" at every break in play - whether it's kicking for goal, bouncing the ball, serving a tennis ball or whatever, resulting in time limits being enforced (even if they're rarely observed re 90 overs in six Test hours!). Maybe it's unavoidable.

Mistakes are simply not tolerated like they used to be, one consequence being the messy goal review system. And I'm still seeing more short boundary throw-ins than I ever noticed before.

 

[Cmarsh]

This Bris V Coll game is pretty good.

 

[Macpotata]

Thank **** for that Lions-Pies game. Was awesome. Like the last game of the round last week saved the weekend and resembled AFL football.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Thank **** for that Lions-Pies game. Was awesome. Like the last game of the round last week saved the weekend and resembled AFL football.

And this is where reality and (some of) the public's expectations are at odds. One of the best games in the Hardwick era was a 2012 Friday night shootout at a packed Etihad against St.Kilda, 121-113. Hardwick said after the match, "That's not how we want to play", and a lot of supporters were confused, because that's what we like to watch. I'll bet my bottom dollar that today is not how Buckley wants Collingwood to play.

But yeah, it's great for neutrals when these games come along.

 

[manicmagpie]

I get the feeling that if I was neutral, that Brisbane/Pies game would have been the best of the year. Fast, flowing attacking football. So many goals kicked from centre square clearances. Brisbane's score of 114 is only the 5th time a team has scored that much and lost in the last 5 years.

But as a Collingwood fan I thought our defence was awful and no doubt Bucks and our other coaches are already planning how to prevent a game like this happening again.

 

[NaturalDisaster]

Tbh I think tactics and strategies have much to do with the game being the way it is... Coaches and clubs need to relax and use the K.I.S.S method.

As much as many people hate Robbo, he made a very good point about this:

“Coaches have hijacked the game with strategies over the last 20 years of the game,” AFL 360 co-host Mark Robinson said.

“The strategies are strangling the game. We can still have strategies, but we’ve also got to have the things that make this game great, which are goals and high marks and players running down the ground.”

Kinda agree with this, not to say just let them run free with no method of play, but ease up with the complex tactics and patterns of play and requring players to think like chess players. Just let the bloody players play with flair without having to over think.

Want a better game? simplify it!

 

[Macpotata]

I speak for myself but i and never will be under the disillusion that the Pies-Lions game is what every game should be. I'm making the comment it's a breath of fresh air compared to most games. I knew people's responses would be what they were.


As I said, as was the case in the last game of last round. Freo vs WCE.

That wasn't a high scoring contest. It was a good game.

 

[NoobPie]

I get the feeling that if I was neutral, that Brisbane/Pies game would have been the best of the year. Fast, flowing attacking football. So many goals kicked from centre square clearances. Brisbane's score of 114 is only the 5th time a team has scored that much and lost in the last 5 years.

But as a Collingwood fan I thought our defence was awful and no doubt Bucks and our other coaches are already planning how to prevent a game like this happening again.

Disagree our defence was woeful. Conceded 8 marks inside 50 for the game. Defence lost a lot of ground ball contests but didn't concede much in the air

 

[manicmagpie]

Disagree our defence was woeful. Conceded 8 marks inside 50 for the game. Defence lost a lot of ground ball contests but didn't concede much in the air

We lost our shape, committed too many people to the contest and allowed way too many goals out the back, in my view.

 

[iluvparis]

I only caught the left two minutes of Sydney vs North last night. Close game less than a goal in it. But that last two minutes was absolute poo to watch, what a let down.

I watched the entire second half and it was literally one of the worst games of football in terms of skill level I've seen in recent years.

The kicking for goal was truly horrendous and the field kicking was only marginally better. In fact outside of tackling and PRESSHA!!!!! the only skill on display was Mason Wood's contested marking - which is obviously worth every penny of the $2b TV rights deal

 

[iluvparis]

The 2015 GF was the exact opposite of what people whinge about today - it was a high skilled team picking apart a side playing a hard press.

Personally I find both styles equally unwatchable.

 

[QuietB]

Skill levels are terrible at the moment,are clubs recruiting athletes and hoping to coach skills or is there too many clubs and lack of enough quality to go around?

Past players will tell you that they spent more time training with actual footballs each week than current players. Might have something to do with skills getting worse.

I would also say that I spent a lot more time kicking balls and generally playing sport outside as a kid than current kids do.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

18 teams are too many. As such defensive zones and presseswork as most players can't execute basic skills under pressure.

No changes to the rules.

Go back to the future. No interchange.

6-8 on the bench but subs only.

I’ve been against it but must say I’m leaning back toward substitutions rather than interchange.

The game is just a rolling maul of 36 players.

 

[shaqsuns]

Personally I find both styles equally unwatchable.

Yeah personally I thought the 2015 was a terrible display of football. I remember the talk show host all around Australia talking up the the cowboys vs Broncos granny and saying what a let down the the AFL granny was.


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[JohnnyFontane90]

That’s where I disagree with you, there does seem to be a correlation between increased rotations and stoppages in our game. Geelong was never the team that over used the interchange if you remember it was Collingwood who did it against Geelong in round 8, 2008 which at the time was amazing to watch as it was different. However from that moment it just got ridiculous and the AFL just let it go even though the problem of congestion was identified years ago.


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the first big jump in rotations was from 2006 to 2007. data on rotations made by each team isn't publicly available for the most part (as far as i know) from before 2014 so it's hard to say exactly which team had the most etc. but apparently the world record is 169 by the crows in the showdown in round 3 2013 where there score was 118-109 with 62 scoring shots (more than in any game this year). not sure of the stoppage numbers but if the ball is flowing end to end then i don't see that as a problem.