How the worm turns.

[40yearBLUE]

This quote from an article in the Age piqued my interest and got my blood pressure rising:

"The threat of moving games interstate or to Carlton's Visy Park to force a better deal for clubs was discussed at yesterday's meeting between club presidents and the AFL".

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/afl-clubs-consider-moving-games/2009/03/23/1237656851192.html

Some would argue that part of the reason for our demise over the past decade could be sheeted home to the AFL's lack of support for our ground expansion plans in the late 80's, some clubs included in that. And now having been part of the catalyst for our demise, the clubs and perhaps AFL are now considering whether games can be moved to Princess park to break the monopoly stranglehold some clubs now face.

Perhaps some people are strarting to feel some vindication at this outcome.

Whilst I doubt this thread will go far, it is after all a dead issue, it may make some readers feel as annoyed as I was when first reading it, that with the same forsight that the original proponents of our ground expansion plans, the AFL and the Blues would be in a much much stronger position now, and with a stadium capable of holding games with crowds of 40000 instead of little more than a training facility albeit with an excellent playing field.

The thought of knives, noses, faces and spite come to mind.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

"The threat of moving games interstate or to Carlton's Visy Park to force a better deal for clubs was discussed at yesterday's meeting between club presidents and the AFL".

I feel this is very much an empty threat.

Although the playing surface would be up there with the best, if not the best in the league.

With the re-development taking place and alot of the seating room destroyed, the ground wouldn't be able to host AFL games.

Would it?

 

[Pamam]

i went to Visy Park yesterday and was wondering about playing games here if required in the future.

in all seriousness considering we are building the new facilities, there will be a major lack of seats on the Heatley stand end once its finished....considering this now....what would be the Visy Park's attendance max? no more than 15,000 i would say and that would be pushing it.

it would hard for AFL games to come back with that figure i would say

 

[40yearBLUE]

I feel this is very much an empty threat.

Although the playing surface would be up there with the best, if not the best in the league.

With the re-development taking place and alot of the seating room destroyed, the ground wouldn't be able to host AFL games.

Would it?

Oh very much an empty threat. There isnt a snowballs chance in hell of there ever being a proper AFL game played at Princess park ever again.

Unless the AFL and Carlton decided to re develop the ground as a proper venue, and this would be a dire last resort, one I dont contemplate ever happening.

My point is not that games could be shifted to the ground now, but that all of this ground pain that some clubs are feeling would not have occurred if our ground was properly redeveloped in the first place. If you build monopoly situations, it would be niave in the extreme to expect that those monopolies would not be exploited.

The reason it was not IMO was petty interclub jeolousies.

 

[celtic_pride]

The AFL threatened us with big finanical sanctions and other penalities if we didn't move our home games away from Visy Park, the only problem is from what i lead to believe, most of the board favoured playing most of our home games at the MCG but the AFL wouldn't have a bar of it, and forced us to go to Eithrad Stadium ..

They can be quite dictatorial when they want to be the AFL.

 

[40yearBLUE]

The AFL threatened us with big finanical sanctions and other penalities if we didn't move our home games away from Visy Park, the only problem is from what i lead to believe, most of the board favoured playing most of our home games at the MCG but the AFL wouldn't have a bar of it, and forced us to go to Eithrad Stadium ..

They can be quite dictatorial when they want to be the AFL.

Sort of, we had a watertight contract that allowed us 8 home games at PP a year until 2005 (I think, I may be out on the year but nevertheless it had a number of years left to run) but haggled with us to move them to Docklands not so much by sanctions, which they could not legally do, but with a carrot of financial inducements that may have looked good at the time to a club heamoraging money and deep in debt with a white elephant of a ground (once our contract expired we had no legal basis of insisting we keep PP so it was take it or leave it, bird in the hand kind of inducement) but has turned out not such a good deal for us.

The AFL is a bit like Oceania in George Orwell's 1984, they are either at war with the MCC and allied with Docklands or allied with the MCC and at war with Docklands. At the time IIRC they did want us at Docklands, but I bet they regret that now. In fact I bet they regret us not have a quality 3rd Melbourne ground option, which they would have had if they had of backed us as I state in my OP.

Anyhow, all water under bridges now. I just choked a little on my breakfast when I read that and the incredible short sightedness it pointed to.

IMO some of the clubs that behind closed doors opposed us retaining our own ground run the real risk of being run out of business by the deals they now have with Docklands. They didnt want us to benefit from having our own ground so fought us on it but it may come to pass that it is more at their cost to get their way on that issue than ours. There is no question of our survival but a very real question on some of them.

 

[Orangewhip]

Am I right in thinking that Graham Samual actually backed Ellliot early on but then reneged?

 

[40yearBLUE]

Am I right in thinking that Graham Samual actually backed Ellliot early on but then reneged?

I dont know. Perhaps someone else can jump in. I dont have any special insight, just what I read in the press and membership releases at the time and I admit now my memory is fading.

I should also declare my bias. I started with the cheer squad in the 70's and sat in the Heatley which I loved. As an adult I used to love sitting in the Pratt (then Hawthorn) stand up high. I tried the legends for a few seasons but preferred sitting higher. I also tried the Elliot for a year. But my favorite memories come from the Hawthorn (Pratt) stand. So I was very pro staying at PP.

I never had an issue with public transport, I came by train to Jewel and walked or I parked near Jewel and walked if I drove. I could never understand why we would ever want to move. And was quite bitter when we did.

Now that it is done I dont care so much, I just love seeing the blues play whenever I can live but mostly on TV from NSW.

But I am sure one day many will realize what a mistake it was not to properly develop PP into a modern stadium. And whilst many clubs could argue that about their own ground, the reality is that we are the only club that tried to.

 

[inyourcool]

Wasn't the redevelopment contingent on the ground no longer hosting league games? This would be a breach of the conditions of government funding so very much a hollow threat.

 

[HBF]

It's a little disappointing that the State Government feel that they don't want to get involved with these discussions, and will leave it up the clubs and the grounds to sort it out for themselves.

I knew the clubs were being stiffed at Etihad Stadium, but I didn't think it was so bad "over the road" at the MCG. You can only hope that they get this sorted out - pretty unfair what the MCG is doing to them.

 

[blues4flag]

PP will only hold 22k once completed. Empty threats, I feel. While I understand where the presidents are coming from, it just doesn't make sense to play any games away from the Etihad/MCG unless it's the Roos/Dogs/Demons against the poorer drawing interstate clubs. You'd have 15-20k fans locked out of the stadium, members entitled to entry amongst them, if you were to move games to smaller venues.

That said, something must happen to give the clubs a fairer deal. Disgraceful at the moment.

 

[40yearBLUE]

PP will only hold 22k once completed. Empty threats, I feel. While I understand where the presidents are coming from, it just doesn't make sense to play any games away from the Etihad/MCG unless it's the Roos/Dogs/Demons against the poorer drawing interstate clubs. You'd have 15-20k fans locked out of the stadium, members entitled to entry amongst them, if you were to move games to smaller venues.

That said, something must happen to give the clubs a fairer deal. Disgraceful at the moment.

This is my point. None of this debate would be happening if the AFL and some of the clubs that opposed us, got behind us to get the plans and finance we needed to build the 40000 plus seat completely enclosed stadium with underground parking we had sought all along. (The Legends stand was our pitifully defiant finger to them that failed dismally).

We would be that third stadium and a monopoly breaker. But some clubs did not like the idea of our club being the landlord. Well they now have to deal with the monster that grew out of that petty jealousy.

 

[GPW1]

wouldn't it be awesome if back in the 70's, the afl (vfl) had bought up some cheap land, maybe somewhere in the sth-east growth corridor, built a stadium that could hold 70-80k and owned it wholly and solely and returned the profits to the clubs.

wait a minute....

 

[mickelboy182]

Oh very much an empty threat. There isnt a snowballs chance in hell of there ever being a proper AFL game played at Princess park ever again.

Swear jar.

 

[Murph_The_Smurf]

i went to Visy Park yesterday and was wondering about playing games here if required in the future.

in all seriousness considering we are building the new facilities, there will be a major lack of seats on the Heatley stand end once its finished....considering this now....what would be the Visy Park's attendance max? no more than 15,000 i would say and that would be pushing it.

it would hard for AFL games to come back with that figure i would say

North v melb

 

[Alpha1]

The worm might turn, but in the end it always gets eaten.

 

[thylacine60]

Swear jar.

30's a recidivist. I'd pick him up more often but his posts can be so earnest I'd hate to be seen as trivial. Me, trivial? FMD.

 

[Salaryman]

 

[40yearBLUE]

Swear jar.

Sprung!!!

Not even close to an appropriate penalty. I can’t believe the shame that a single s can cause. The sad thing is I actually say princess park too not just type it. I think it is my arks. I should have just stuck to Visy Park!!

What is the penance? I have one I know I won’t like. I think I should be limited to 100 word answers for my next 10 posts, how does that sound?

And to put that into perspective, this post is 89 words.

 

[pansies]

Reading this just makes me angry. I loved going to watch the footy at PP/OO/VP. Some of my earliest and best memories are from there, not just the footy but also walking around seeing the same faces week-in week-out.

I don't think there was ever much chance of developing the ground to the level that would have been worth it. Mainly because local residents wouldn't allow making it bigger.

The thing that I have never really understood was that how was it such a dead weight financially for us yet Skilled stadium is such a bonus for Geelong? Legends stand aside that is.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Geography mostly. Cat fans might not travel 80k up the highway, but Blues fans will travel 3km up Royal Pde around the markets and down Dudley st.

And the ground was there before any of the residents.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Reading this just makes me angry. I loved going to watch the footy at PP/OO/VP. Some of my earliest and best memories are from there, not just the footy but also walking around seeing the same faces week-in week-out.

I don't think there was ever much chance of developing the ground to the level that would have been worth it. Mainly because local residents wouldn't allow making it bigger.

The thing that I have never really understood was that how was it such a dead weight financially for us yet Skilled stadium is such a bonus for Geelong? Legends stand aside that is.

Remember the old Peanut guy? I think his son took over in the last few years.

He would throw a bag up an aisle to you and you would pass your money down. I love that memory.

 

[thylacine60]

"'eanuts!"

And he was a pretty good throw. Beans seagulls with steel washers at Tullamarine nowadays for meals. Odd.

 

[40yearBLUE]

"'eanuts!"

And he was a pretty good throw. Beans seagulls with steel washers at Tullamarine nowadays for meals. Odd.

I once had a debate that lasted all of half time with my cousin (unresolved to this day!!) about whether a peanut in its shell is shelled or a peanut out of its shell is shelled. We had everyone around us joining in on it with the result about 50:50. Glory Days at PP: thumbsu:

 

[thylacine60]

I've spent as much time in that ****ing beer queue at the right scoreboard pocket. Back then you could miss 7 goals just getting a drink and a pie - particularly in the 3rd quarter!