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Brezsa said:
I never said anything about picks at all & never suggested they should get a heap. So you aren’t reading anything that I posted.

Also mismanagement by Freo, which is clearly a culture issue as it’s continued on for almost 30 years isn’t relevant to the best way to setup a club. Freo, Brisbane (which in its current form is larger due to a merger), Adelaide setup, isn’t relevant to the discussion. They where setup in a different era, the relevant comparison is GWS & GC who both got substantial packages, the GWS package while not giving them a premiership, within 10 years had them competitive to the point of multiple preliminary finals & a GF runner up, so they where there about. I think we can all agree the GC disaster wasn’t because of the AFL supplied assistance, rather their own mismanagement. That’s why if you read my post you will see I didn’t mention draft picks (which you keep saying I did) rather talked out freeing up middle tier players for Tasmanian to have an opportunity to get them, the GWS didn’t have
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Well there you go. We all agree that Freo was badly managed. Not mention a bit of bad luck.

So please tell me about all of freos concession picks.

Oh they were forced to be traded. Matty Lloyd and Scott Lucas were both 16 or 17 years old and went to Essendon for 2 hacks. Lol.

Brisbane in 1987 had stuff all too. Again, they had 35 players like west coast eagles.

At least the eagles had a decent local comp in the WAFL to choose decent talent, even players that went to VFL clubs and returned back to the WAFL.

Most of Brisbanes experienced players from other VFL clubs were either old guys at the end of their carers or rejects from other clubs. To top it off they had 6 pre draft picks from the SANFL, 3 of them didn't bother to go to Brisbane.

Not to mention their pick 1 was Martin Leslie. He didn't rock up there until 1989.
 
tombomb said:
They shouldn’t even be talking about the draft as a way to build the initial team.

It will be GWS and Gold Coast all over again if they go down that path.

The initial concessions to GWS are arguably still impacting the draft, as they trade players out who they either brought in initially, or brought in with picks that they traded out old players for who they got initially.

If they really want Tasmania not to be easy beats and not just a training academy for Victorian clubs, they need to do an expansion draft. It's the fairest way for the rest of the competition and would make Tasmania immediately competitive.
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And how wouldn you do the expansion draft?

Please... Let's hear it.

My biggest fear is Tassie becomes the next gold coast sun's and have a possie of 50 players. 40 of them are kids and most of those kids are Victorian kids.

Tassie is an Aussie rules state. They should prove it by having just a hand full of Vic kids.

Tassie state league can provide them local talent.

As I said, the AFL should pump money into the Tassie leagues from 2024 onwards.

Those 16-18 year Olds in 2024 will be 18-20 year Olds when the 2026 draft comes
 
Freomaniac said:
And how would you do the expansion draft?

Please... Let's hear it.
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Well you would need to know exactly what every player gets paid etc and how lists are currently comprised to be really specific, but this is essentially how it would work off the top of my head.

1) Get the Players Association to agree. I'll put more below on what could be given to relocating players to get the players association to agree. Dangerfield has already flagged today about contracted players being able to move - it isn't that absurd.

2) The expansion draft is held after the trade period, but before the 2027 National Draft. Aside from priority access to Tasmanian kids from next year, Tasmania don't enter the draft until after their first season (2028).

3) Every player over 28 is automatically protected (and can't be drafted by Tasmania). Every player who has been in the league for two seasons or less is automatically protected. Every player who moved club in the last two seasons is protected.

4) This would leave a group of players under 28 who have been in the league for more than 2 seasons, and been at the same club for more than two seasons. Each team could protect a set amount of players, for example 5. It may be that some teams have more players than others that land in this group, so the AFL would probably have to decide how many they can protect based on this.

5) The remaining players, along with all uncontracted players post the 2027 trade period, go into the expansion draft.

6) Tasmania then take 1 player from each club.

7) IF you allowed them to take an additional player from some of the clubs, that team would receive some draft compensation in then 2028 draft. That's if you decide they need more than just the 18 players from the draft. You might let them take an additional 6 players or something like that to give them 24.

8) The players that are picked go to Tasmania on their existing contract with an optional two year contract extension. They have a normal salary cap, with one exception.

9) Relocating players receive an additional $100k per year bonus for the first 3 years of their contract. That's an additional 1.8mil per season that they get above the salary cap.
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So that would given them at least 18 perfectly capable mature AFL players, that they could hand pick. Every team would be impacted the same way. No need for years of compromised drafts or forcing another generation of young players to Tasmania against their will.

They wouldn't just be a few overpaid recruits, a bunch of state league list cloggers, and then 30 teenagers making up their list.

As well as the normal free agency signings, I would give Tasmania priority access to any Tasmanian born draftee from the end of next year. This does potentially mean a player or two might have to spend a couple of years playing VFL when they could be playing AFL, but I think this is a small price to pay for the long term good of the team.

That is just a rough idea. They would have years to work out the exact details so it was fair for all.
 

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tombomb said:
Well you would need to know exactly what every player gets paid etc and how lists are currently comprised to be really specific, but this is essentially how it would work off the top of my head.

1) Get the Players Association to agree. I'll put more below on what could be given to relocating players to get the players association to agree. Dangerfield has already flagged today about contracted players being able to move - it isn't that absurd.

2) The expansion draft is held after the trade period, but before the 2027 National Draft. Aside from priority access to Tasmanian kids from next year, Tasmania don't enter the draft until after their first season (2028).

3) Every player over 28 is automatically protected (and can't be drafted by Tasmania). Every player who has been in the league for two seasons or less is automatically protected. Every player who moved club in the last two seasons is protected.

4) This would leave a group of players under 28 who have been in the league for more than 2 seasons, and been at the same club for more than two seasons. Each team could protect a set amount of players, for example 5. It may be that some teams have more players than others that land in this group, so the AFL would probably have to decide how many they can protect based on this.

5) The remaining players, along with all uncontracted players post the 2027 trade period, go into the expansion draft.

6) Tasmania then take 1 player from each club.

7) IF you allowed them to take an additional player from some of the clubs, that team would receive some draft compensation in then 2028 draft. That's if you decide they need more than just the 18 players from the draft. You might let them take an additional 6 players or something like that to give them 24.

8) The players that are picked go to Tasmania on their existing contract with an optional two year contract extension. They have a normal salary cap, with one exception.

9) Relocating players receive an additional $100k per year bonus for the first 3 years of their contract. That's an additional 1.8mil per season that they get above the salary cap.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So that would given them at least 18 perfectly capable mature AFL players, that they could hand pick. Every team would be impacted the same way. No need for years of compromised drafts or forcing another generation of young players to Tasmania against their will.

They wouldn't just be a few overpaid recruits, a bunch of state league list cloggers, and then 30 teenagers making up their list.

As well as the normal free agency signings, I would give Tasmania priority access to any Tasmanian born draftee from the end of next year. This does potentially mean a player or two might have to spend a couple of years playing VFL when they could be playing AFL, but I think this is a small price to pay for the long term good of the team.

That is just a rough idea. They would have years to work out the exact details so it was fair for all.
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I really hope the VFL team can start loading up with Tassie born players. A bit stiff for those kids that won't get AFL games, but seems necessary.

On Nokia 6.1 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
fargothegreat said:
I think the key is get a mix of senior leaders and talented young kids. Gold Coast failed because they didn't get the leaders right and you could argue that GWS were too talented (too much individual brilliance, but not enough good character role players).

Firstly a couple of provisions designed to get as many Tasmanians on the list as possible:
  • All uncontracted Tasmanians should be free agents for the club the first time they come out of contract after the club's admission into the league.
  • Free access to all Tasmanian draftees for the first three years, with academy bidding rules applied after that.
And to build the list:
  • All uncontracted non-Tasmanian players should be free agents for the first three years with a limit of 2 players taken per club during this period.
  • Free access to all mature-age players without having to draft them in the first two years.
  • Free access to any player not taken in the national draft in the first two years.
  • National draft concessions split over two years, rather than one (in case there is a weak draft year). Not sure exactly what format these should take
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The Tassie team should 1st try to tempt tassie kids back home, Club culture will help keep more tassie academy kids in the state.
More Tassie kids in the team will connect more supporters to become members.
Unlike the suns / plastics that are a major disappointment after all these years.

Through the draft, it will be smart to target kids from the country Vic/S.A/W.A who are not attracted by the bright lights of big cities.
 
Freomaniac said:
Well there you go. We all agree that Freo was badly managed. Not mention a bit of bad luck.

So please tell me about all of freos concession picks.

Oh they were forced to be traded. Matty Lloyd and Scott Lucas were both 16 or 17 years old and went to Essendon for 2 hacks. Lol.

Brisbane in 1987 had stuff all too. Again, they had 35 players like west coast eagles.

At least the eagles had a decent local comp in the WAFL to choose decent talent, even players that went to VFL clubs and returned back to the WAFL.

Most of Brisbanes experienced players from other VFL clubs were either old guys at the end of their carers or rejects from other clubs. To top it off they had 6 pre draft picks from the SANFL, 3 of them didn't bother to go to Brisbane.

Not to mention their pick 1 was Martin Leslie. He didn't rock up there until 1989.
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I think that’s something for the Freo board. This is about Tassie, Freo are irrelevant
 
Brezsa said:
I think that’s something for the Freo board. This is about Tassie, Freo are irrelevant
Click to expand...
Well that's true....

But as Tassie is a non Victorian side. I want them to have some success.

But on the other hand, they don't need massive amount of 1st rounders to start with.

Again, Tassie is an Aussie rules state. And they should prove that by having most of their players as Tassie players, not Victorians
 
I think a great, recent example of a solid club build for a team having retention issues is Brisbane.

2013 trade period saw them lose: Sam Docherty, Elliot Yoe, Jaraed Polec, Billy Longer and Patrick Karnezis. The club was accused of having a "culture issue" but I feel in fact they just drafted highly fancied flight risks. Not long after there was Jack Crisp, Josh Schache, Jack Redden and James Aish. Moral must have been rock bottom.

In 2016 Fagan came to the club and completely changed the drafting focus, bringing in top rated country kids in Huge McCluggage and Jarrod Berry, with the added connection factor of being best friends. Next big win was Zac Bailey, ex NT and SA, Brandon Starcevich (whose uncle coached the AFLW side). The interpersonal network grew further with the inclusion of Tom Berry, brother of Jarrod, Lachie Neale and Lincon McCarthy (best friends) same with Deven Robertson and Jaxon Prior.

There are many more examples of how Fagan, Swan and Noble went about creating a comforting environment which encouraged engagement, a club that has aspects of home. There is hardly a player out there who will admit to putting personal glory above team success, and when that team includes old friends and family it just brings the group together that bit tighter.

I'm not saying this should be more important than strategic needs but it cannot be ignored if you want to build a club instead of a team. And let's face it Brisbane's turn around has been nothing short of remarkable, going from revolving door to destination club.
 
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The advantage we have over GWS and GC is players, and existing culture. So take advantage of that. I think you grow the team, and the loyalty towards the team, by having as many Tasmanians in the team as possible.

1. I'd get not 1, but 2 Tassie teams in the VFL ASAP; I'd have them both supported by U18 teams.

2. Tassie get 5 first rounders 18 months before they enter that must be traded for a future Tasmanian player or for future draft picks. Or potentially they can use one of them on a Tasmanian, and they get to stash one more kid between picks 10-15 in the VFL for a year as well, and the other 3 are traded. It spreads out the pain. Does create an awkward situation where a player plays a whole season with their old club before moving, but I think we're mature enough to deal with an extraordinary situation - it also creates a fascinating situation, cos what are clubs going to be prepared to give up to Tasmania the year before at least one super compromised draft? (I want to create a situation where you get more value if you proactively give up a good player, rather than the player having to break hearts.)

3. Every AFL player who has ever played school or club footy in Tassie is on the table, contracted or not, if the player wants to move/can be talked into moving (so obviously you can tamper with contracted Tasmanians). You could use draft points + club B&Fs as a mechanism to assess value and Tassie gives up the requisite draft points without the player's previous club getting a say - they just get the draft pick equivalent to the points. (You potentially also create a mechanism where you get the first player at a particular club real cheap, but the 2nd player costs closer to their "real" value - and maybe you max out at 2. Not that there are 2 Tasmanians at many clubs anyway.)

4. In the draft 6 months before entry you have to give them at least 10-12 of the top 25 picks, maybe make them trade half of them (not necessarily Tasmanians, you could trade for anyone who wants to come in). You probably need to give half a dozen 2nd rounders too.

5. Give an additional salary cap allowance to sign FAs across the first 2 seasons. Those first few non-Tasmanian FAs are going to be expensive.

6. Dibs on all Tasmanian players across the first 3-5 seasons - you do it using the same zone/father-son mechanism that we currently have, but for the first 3-5 seasons Tassie gets a discount.

7. Further draft concessions after year 1, but nowhere near as severe.

I think that 1) getting all the Tasmanians back that you want, with salary cap and draft points being a minor issue, 2) giving salary cap concessions to sign FAs and 3) giving them 6 first rounders across each of their first two seasons is enough to be competitive.
 
Allowing Tassie the equivalent of priority picks over a longer period than the last expansion teams makes more sense

So spread out the picks equivalent to what Gold Coast or gws got over a longer period,


Gws actually manipulated and traded to achieve this, but the list became a revolving door, with players used like cattle
 

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