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Hypothetically what would we offer to get Sandilands?

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Timmy from Thomastown said:
Yeah yeah yeah I know all that. Doesnt mean we should give up trying though.

Sandilands has played about half a season of good footy. Hardly enough to justify a 700k salary that would require us to make a sacrifice on our list to obtain. I dont mind over the odds, but how much over?
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i dont agree with trading away any of our gun players to pick him up

as players fraser has done much more in his career then sandilands

thomas / pendles could be superstars

sandilands may well blossom into a great ruck, but by no means should we destroy our team by offering gun picks and players for him

throw big $$$ at him, he can walk
 
doppleganger said:
i dont agree with trading away any of our gun players to pick him up

as players fraser has done much more in his career then sandilands

thomas / pendles could be superstars

sandilands may well blossom into a great ruck, but by no means should we destroy our team by offering gun picks and players for him

throw big $$$ at him, he can walk
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Destroy our team? We have finished 13, 15 and 7 and our best players are on the verge of finishing. We need to build a team. Trading a possible gun mid for a probably gun ruck is a million miles from destroying our team let alone the fact we don’t exactly have the Berlin Wall to knock down. That’s not to say I’d be keen on giving up either of Thomas or Pendlebury but the reality it is would take more than either to get Sandilands.

Sometimes I wonder how we aren’t winning premierships by the bootfull the way our supporters rate our players. Freo are a better side than we are and Sandilands is one of their most important players. He would be the best ruckman we have had since Peter Moore.

How would you ever expect to get a quality ruckman without offering a potential gun and/or picks? This mentality is why we didn’t get Everitt and possibly what cost us at least 1 flag. They always want too much. It costs to get what you need. It also cost not to get it.
 
Timmy from Thomastown said:
Sandilands has played about half a season of good footy. Hardly enough to justify a 700k salary that would require us to make a sacrifice on our list to obtain. I dont mind over the odds, but how much over?
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Good question. Hard to say. Depends on your squad I guess. $700k is about 10% of the cap. By the end of the current pay deal it will be about 8.5%. Tarrant would have been on a fair chunk of a similar % I would guess. With retirements and the influx of youth I would think we’d be very well placed to make a big purchase.

We offered Brown more than that if you believe the stories. Sandilands isn’t Brown but he does play a lot more footy. Nick Stevens allegedly went to Carlton for $500k and that was a few years (and salary cap increases) ago. $700k is not to be taken lightly but at a flat rate for a 3 to 5 year period it isn’t as massive as people make it out to be.

One way to lower the cap burden might be advance payments. Say Freo offered something close to $700k (is it an ambit claim anyway?). We might get him for $650k in advance for 4 years. By year 4 we’d be on a good wicket assuming he didn’t get injured and he kept improving. Certainly not risk free but we won’t win premierships without taking some risks.
 
Timmy from Thomastown said:
Think of it in terms of giving up two players of equal salary, which is what you'd have to do in theory to make cap room.

I dont know who at Collingwood is on 350k, but we'd have to lose two of them. That I assume would be the equivalent of losing Didak and Fraser.
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We have already lost Tarrant so maybe it would really mean 1 player of $200k. Wakelin’s retirement? Lockyer? O’Bree? Just guessing at salaries of course.
Timmy from Thomastown said:
Tarrant went last year, he's already been replaced, so thats irrelvant. We'd have to get rid of another player of Tarrant's profile to make room.
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Depends what we did with his cap space. EG did we front load? We have a very young list and a few veterans. I’d find it hard to believe we gave all his salary away along with the 1 vote for turning up.
 

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Timmy from Thomastown said:
The best way to succeed is to develop your own players. The sacrifice to recruit big money players is rarely worth the cost and rarely successful.
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There are no set formulaes and any methodology is rarely successful in reality. Growing your own has hardly proven successful in this era. Maybe WCE are the closest but they still targeted a few – or perhaps were lucky with a few returning home. Sydney certainly recruit heavily. Brisbane did even with the Fitzroy and zone players supplementing their drafting. It’s all about the hit rate not the method. Draft well trade well and you have a chance. You need to get both right though. I think it is almost impossible to have a well balanced list with 1 pick each year in each round of the draft. The average life span of a draftee is less than 4 years and the best last a bit over 10 years.
 
Threads like this make me even more exasperated that we never made enough (if any) attempt to pick up Simmonds or Jolley when they were discarded by their respective clubs.
 
$700,000 pa. I can't seem to get my head around this. Judd and Brown would be on substantially less I'd imagine.

Heres what we could do. Offer him $400,000 of salary (in the cap) and $300,000 worth of ads - Lexus, Maccas, Sony atc.
 
..or we can stop worrying about what other teams may or may not have. And stick to OUR development plans.
Try get our hands on a young 1 in the draft. Or wait until a 2nd ruckman (good 2nd ruckman) wants to be a #1 ruckman somewhere else.
I think that $700k from the salary cap would be better served saved up spread around our list because the likes of Dale Thomas, Pendles, Heater and Dids deserve it just as much over the next decade.
 
What a stupid thread. Hypothetically I would give him a packet of tim tams that never runs out.
 
Dazman said:
$700,000 pa. I can't seem to get my head around this. Judd and Brown would be on substantially less I'd imagine.
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I wouldn’t bet on that but you can bet on the fact they’d get $1m to move from someone. Buckley would be on $700k and possibly more although he is on the vets list. I don't actually think Sandilands is worth $700k right now but that isn't really the test when recruiting to fill a hole you are incapable of otherwise filling with someone potentially very good. The issues are what you give up v what that would have achieved for you and what his salary will do in the medium to long term to your TPP's.

It's about flags not blind love and affection.

Just to put it into context, add today’s Sandilands to the 2002 squad and we probably have a flag and then who knows what else in 2003. We don’t have the 2002 squad though so it may be irrelevant but a flag for a $700k player is a bargain. The whole purpose of managing the cap is to build a flag squad.
 

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Get the shotgun it's MarkT season. :S

My opinions:

1. Sandilands is overrated atm.

2. Freo would want an arm and a leg when we hardly have a body. I.e. our younger players we need to hang on to. We are no position to get rid of him.

3. We have no trade bait in the senior ranks, O'Bree, Lockyer, Lonie may get some 2nd round picks at best in the open market or land some handy players but they never land you key players like Sandilands.
 
1. Maybe. He’s rated largely on body type and potential. How over rated are the players no one would swap for him though if that is the case?

2. Probably. So we do what we’ve always done and get what we’ve always got?

3. True. Maybe in a package but you’d still have to give up quality players/picks. That’s why we don’t get anyone – Clement aside which the stats say was blind luck.
 
If Richards has a good year i would not bother chasing sandilands, but if GUY does not i would offer 600k!
 
Give freo no players.If it's money do the deal.Best to wait to see if he is out of contract then negotiate.I would no way swap clement and fraser for that big lug.If we could do cash only deal consider it but no players.
 
Do you realise Clement will be 31 watching the 2007 grand final from the stands? He may suit Freo’s premiership clock but he is in another time zone to ours. Fraser will never ever be the ruckman Sandilands will be. There is not a hope in hell of that. He may well be a good forward come roaming utility but at 2m is he a KPP? I rate Josh as a footballer but he doesn’t fill a key role. He’s a flanker/utility and MM doesn’t use his uniqueness uniquely at all. What is he worth to us v what does he get paid and what we could get for him? Anyone who wouldn’t consider ever trading Fraser is crazy. Two years ago people said Tarrant was an untouchable. Fact is, production not potential is what matters.
 
Freo reckon they're in with a run at the flag, and good luck to them. They're stocking the larder with "now" players to augment a good list, and trading draft picks and spare parts. Sandilands is not spare parts, he's core, and they'd only part with him for a better ruckman. If we had a better ruckman why would we be trading for him?

The specific case aside, trading for ruckmen is fraught because its a glamorous position. Big men command an inflated price based as much on their rarity as their ability.

We saw a similar thing with Tarrant: he's a tall quick forward. It doesn't matter that he's too light for a KP, rather injured and has had some off-field issues, Freo paid up a top 10 draft pick and a first 22 player (albeit of a type they have plenty of) on the barrel head. Glamorous player, glamorous position, glamorous price. Halfback flankers and goalsneaks aren't half as sexy: we got Clemo and Holland for a song.

Sandilands is a very unbalanced footballer. For all the hype he is still an immobile dinsoaur. Aside from his very high asking price value, I don't think he'd give us a balanced ruck division: in fact he'd do less the Fraser can. Yes I know he can get a tap, but for a good ruckman he's a crap footballer.

Mark's point about no-one being untradeable is very true. Clement is an old Freo boy, and widely recognised as a crack defender. Even though his position isn't glamorous, his ability has been recognised publicly (thanks Dermott). Its the sort of deal Freo have shoot themselves in the foot over before: rings a Bell doesn't it?

If we were trading with Freo then Clemo would be an attractive player for them, but he'd be a drop in the ocean they'd want for Sandilands. Given Freo's self perception of Premiership readiness, there's almost no-one in the league we could offer them for Sandilands. His price in trade value and salary puts him out of the market for me.
 

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Let's just wait and see if we can't get leuemberger in 2 years when he's had enough at Brisbane and and out of contract ,forget sandilands or even better in 2 years time Monkhurst has 4 sons i believe who will donne the collingwood jumper in a few years surely out of the 4 there's a ruckman amongst them.In fact they all could be ruckmen.Has anyone got any info on the Monkhurst kids ?
 
Now that sounds like a plan. Not for winning premierships but a plan. We can wait and see if we get Gibbs too. How about just waiting ti see if we can Judd and Cox from WCE and leave it at that. We can wait all decade. What’s another decade without a flag?
 

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Hypothetically what would we offer to get Sandilands?

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