News I didn't see this Walls article coming...

[celtic_pride]

Rohan Connolloy has just potted Jordan Russell on 3AW, he says he is backing up Wallsy and thinks he has a lesser 'upside' then any of the other players Walls listed in his bottom 6, Clokey included !!!

 

[Gibbs_09]

Rohan Connolloy has just potted Jordan Russell on 3AW, he says he is backing up Wallsy and thinks he has a lesser 'upside' then any of the other players Walls listed in his bottom 6, Clokey included !!!

Ouch... Rohan being a little hard on JR there... not calling Cloke a spud but Russ, undoubtedly, has more potential upside than him.

 

[Premiership Quarter]

It is a fair article and reasonable. It probably shows that our top 12 are as good as any and we have a few matchwinners in that group. But the bottom 6 thing is an easy fix for us. Irrispective of who the worst 6 are we have a great 6 waiting in the wings which will give us the best or second best bottom six by year end hopefully. They are Hadley (wasnt playing when article written) Grigg, Warnock, Walker, Yarran and Robinson....then there is still Austin, Hampson and Garlett. So by year end we will have resolved this problem. They wont all have the experience necessary but they will be the players that will win us a flag. Who the six are that fall out are obviously debateable. Oh I guess I should have an opinion on that. Wiggins, Cloke, O'Hailpin, Bentley, Houlihan, Russell....oh I guess he was right, though Russell I love and as another poster stated if we have Houlihan, Russell and Austin as emergencies we will be looking very ominous for other sides. But if we were all looking at it objectively we know hadley, walker, grigg and warnock are givens and probably top 10 at some point, but we all expect and hope that Yarran and Robinson will be better than russell and Houlihan who are probably the best of the "dud" 6.

 

[Abaddon]

fair article by Walls.
It was a given that after an admirable performance against a weak Western Bulldogs that players like Wiggins, Russell, Houlihan, Cloke, Thornton, etc. would let the club down against a physical opponent. Still a lot of crap sitting on Carltons list that needs to be moved on.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Wouldn't the bottom 6 be the last half dozen on the list?

 

[HeziBarecket]

Best, most accurate 'reality check' article about us this year. Hopefully it gives those players a good kick up the bum to aspire to greater heights or lift their workrate and skills.

And I just get the sneaking suspicion Wallsy read this posting I did nearly a month ago:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=565910

 

[blue gunslinger]

why are people bagging Walls? He is spot on,
Russell is a spud full stop. Cloke is a spud full stop. Wiggins tries hard but is limited as a player.Setanta as much as i like him is a spud. I'm a fan of Houlihan but he heard shadows in that game against Hawthorn, didn't look good( good call to put him in the magoos). Thorton is ok as long as he plays on the third tall, otherwise he is a spud as well.
If Carlton want to be succesful Walls is right we can't carry players that can't perform on the big stage.
Personally i think Cloke and Russell are very lucky to have kept their spots.

So did Fev last week - want to drop him?
You want to get rid of Hoops(one of our most skilled) Cloke (our biggest body) Wiggo (who has been our most reliable 2nd lead up fwd) TBird (who still holds the backline together) and JR who has improved. Who are you replacing them with that offer more? Granted a few I would do so but don't just call players spuds and offer no solutions.

 

[The Coach]

Houlihan - stars against bottom sides, is slow with his hands, is not that good when you compare him to steve johnson and steward Dew

O'hAilpin - Not a ruckman or a key position player, just doesn't have polished skills.

Wiggins - He tries hard but he is not a gifted footballer or athlete. Shocking disposal, lacks speed and agility and polished ball handling. Doesn't have the real solid body to play a good physical game. Is often beaten for contested footy at ground level.

Russell - All athlete, bugger all footballer. Disposal is suspect, struggles to find the footy, is no good 1on1 & winning the contested ball.

Cloke - can not play at all and is a liability for our side as he can't move and chase. Poor all round skills.

Our best players are right up there with any one. Walls is right, except for Thornton. We need to work on developing our younger players and eventually they will replace these blokes and we will be a much much better team. Harsh but true.

You are only as good as your weakest player, we have a few weak links we need patching up still. Luckly I think we have the talent to do it.

Agree with most of this except you are wrong about Wigg's physical game and I am happy with Wallsy's Thornton. Sadly it is not Cloke's fault that he was born 6" too short or 10 yds too slow

Wasn't it only last week we were being told how Wiggins was the third best lead up player in the comp?

If Fev kicked straight, what would the article have been? Somthing to put Freo dow whic is Walls' usual MO.

You are certainly right about this only being written because we lost bb

My ideal 22 if I could pick players who are hard at the ball, accountable and can kick.

B: Joseph Jamison Browne
HB: Bower Waite Thornton
C: Grigg Murphy Simpson
R: Warnock Judd Gibbs
HF: Walker Kreuzer Yarran
F: Betts Fevola Austin

I/C: Robinson O'keeffe* Hadley Hampson

Emerg: Armfield Russell Anderson Garlett

*List assessment: Carlton




Draft a quality key forward or key back and we could be away.

Tiller coming on would be a huge bonus.

I hope you know your stuff TG because there are a heap of unprovens in there and if they are all as good as you think they are then we may be ok.

Gilly will testify that I am all for playing such a line up now but for your injured Warnock and Walker, I will leave in Carrots and Stevo for now (Kreuze will have to stay in ruck and Waite can go forward) and I would be happy to give Army a run for Thornton (I don't believe that he believes he can beat anybody but 3rd tall and that is not good enuf)

The forward line is your most experimental but experiment is what the MC must do with it (I have been educated by Gilly )

 

[celtic_pride]

Question ... Was Walls article that really bad/negative, or are some people over-reacting, even just because it was Robert Walls wrote it ???

The only real journo in the media who has an blatant anti-Carlton agenda IMHO is Fat-Prick Smith (and I'm sure most people would agree he has written far more offensive and dirty articles about our club then Wallsy ..)

 

[Silvagnis]

I hope you know your stuff TG because there are a heap of unprovens in there and if they are all as good as you think they are then we may be ok.

Gilly will testify that I am all for playing such a line up now but for your injured Warnock and Walker, I will leave in Carrots and Stevo for now (Kreuze will have to stay in ruck and Waite can go forward) and I would be happy to give Army a run for Thornton (I don't believe that he believes he can beat anybody but 3rd tall and that is not good enuf)

The forward line is your most experimental but experiment is what the MC must do with it (I have been educated by Gilly )

I said 2011.

There's nothing wrong with having a positive outlook on your team's chances and future.

Just look at Essendon who defeated Hawthorn with a younger and raw team in an against the odds victory.

And there's nothing wrong with having Thornton only playing third tall which is his best position.

Bret is suited to playing on players like Didak, Morton and Murphy.

And definitely not one out against Roughead with little support from his teammates and midfielders pushing back to block his space.

 

[BlueFeaver]

I know I am coming in a bit late, but I agree completely with Walls. Not just in principal, as it is an old adage, but more so about the players. Until we stabilise this bootom 6 with players that can hold their own and bring consistancy we will not be at the very top end of the competiton.

Lets look at the players:

Wiggins: All heart and brings desperation to the team, he also has fantastic hands, good pace and leads all day. But he lets himself and the team down with his kicking at goal..............this effects his confidence, the team and the teams confidence in him to deliver when needed.

Thornton: Good hands, skilled and reasonably committed in a contest, but the mental side of his game is poor. He gives away free kicks, 50's and is prone to having brain fades. Also, he tends to lay blame when things aren't going his way which effects the overall team unity.

Houla: sublime skills are probably up their with the best in the afl, but the defensive side of his game is very poor...........is essence he is a flat track bully and it to much outside the play.

Setanta: fantastic athlete who is committed to doing his best every week, but his best is not at the level we require.

Cloke: again does his best and I think has above average skills, but he is let down by lack of athletism.

Russell: I am not sure I would slip him in here, he tackles very hard and also does a lot of 1%'s, not to mention he is the guy Ratten uses for all different jobs and often this is to sacrifice his own game. I also think Pagan damaged Russells confidence a great deal and it is taking time for the belief to come..............the word is he is a beautifully skilled player on the training track he just needs to translate that to the ground on matchday.

I will go out on a limb here and exchange Russell for another 2 possible players I feel are slipping rather than Russell who is showing improvement.

Stevens: His kicking is quite good but not elite any more and he can find the lose ball, but in a defensive aspect he is very poor and is also very poor in a contested situation...............he gives up!

Simpson: I think Simmo has reached his best and is being over taken by a host of other players in the team..........I am not saying is bad, I am saying he is being over taken by others.

I personnally believe the Bottom 6 will change by the years end and into next year:

Stevens
Simpson
Carrazzo
Hampson
Robinson
Armfield

Next year I think Thornton will really struggle to find a place, as will Wiggins, Cloke and definetily Setanta. Also don't bank on Fischer coming back in either.............watch out for Austin, Hampson, Warnock and even Hartlett to make a charge.....(Hartlett outside chance)

 

[The Coach]

I said 2011.

There's nothing wrong with having a positive outlook on your team's chances and future.

Just look at Essendon who defeated Hawthorn with a younger and raw team in an against the odds victory.

And there's nothing wrong with having Thornton only playing third tall which is his best position.

Bret is suited to playing on players like Didak, Morton and Murphy.

And definitely not one out against Roughead with little support from his teammates and midfielders pushing back to block his space.

I wasn''t being critical - I said I would play your line up apart from Thorn ASAP (still don't see any 2011 mentioned but I want it sooner anyway - get the games into them)

The ref to Gilly was because on another thread I questioned bringing in 3 unknowns this week but and on reflection I realized it was really what I want ie move aside those who will not be in our next finals win

ps Blue Fever never too late for a good read

 

[Murph_The_Smurf]

Sorry if this has already been said , but if Fev had of kicked the goal would we be reading this right now ?

 

[Murphinator]

I wasn't suprised to read this article. He harped on about it during the Carl v Hawks match telecast (wasn't able to go ) and then also brought it up again on One HD's One Week at a time or whatever its called...He doesn't seem to want to give it a rest. thinks he has a good point so is hammering it home.

 

[Alpha1]

I agree with Walls, very true what he says about our bottom 6. And he makes good points about some of them.

 

[gbatman]

Any one like to appologise to Wallsy? He is bloody right... Except on Thornton.

 

[Warsaw]

Yeah he's right but what are we to do. Are they going to get any better? You wouldn't think so. Yet they still play hard and most days give it their all you can't fault their endeavour. Maybe we need to change that bottom 6 but that goes against everything I said in another thread.

But hey that's not my job.

 

[gbatman]

Cloke - Soft
Wiggins - Doesn't play as hard as we make out, in fact he's fairly soft by todays standards, he's actually gone backwards latly.
Simpson - yes, tough as nails.
Thornton - fairly.
O'hAilpin - soft.
Houlihan - fairly soft.

 

[HeziBarecket]

The reality is those guys only play 'well' when the rest of the team are played 'well'.

You can never expect them to get you over the line.

Wallsy's article proved 100% correct tonight, and thats why he get paid a salary as good as those losers, but has been doing so for over 10 years, while those losers will be hassling Visy to give them a job.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Walls loves being negative Blues. Listen to him tonight make cheap shot after cheap shot. Never pro-active or offer alternatives.

 

[The Coach]

Walls loves being negative Blues. Listen to him tonight make cheap shot after cheap shot. Never pro-active or offer alternatives.

Guns - you don't think he is just trying too hard not to be seen as biased toward carlton

 

[blue gunslinger]

Easy - call other games not involving CFC.

 

[Silvagnis]

I rest my case against Stevens and Scotland.

I'll even entertain a trade of Fisher/Thornton and Simpson or Thornton and Houlihan to get us anything in trade week.

Preferably a quick wingman with skill and the nerve to take them on.

No downhill skiers from next year.

Line in the sand time for the Blues.

B: Joseph Jamison Browne
HB: Bower Waite Thornton
C: Grigg Murphy Simpson
R: Warnock Judd Gibbs
HF: Walker Hartlett Yarran
F: Betts Fevola Austin

I/C: Robinson O'keeffe* Hadley Kreuzer

Emerg: Hampson Armfield Anderson Garlett

Our bottom six isn't going to improve if Walker doesn't get back to his best.

 

[The Coach]

I rest my case against Stevens and Scotland.

I'll even entertain a trade of Fisher/Thornton and Simpson or Thornton and Houlihan to get us anything in trade week.

Preferably a quick wingman with skill and the nerve to take them on.

No downhill skiers from next year.

Line in the sand time for the Blues.

B: Joseph Jamison Browne
HB: Bower Waite Thornton
C: Grigg Murphy Simpson
R: Warnock Judd Gibbs
HF: Walker Hartlett Yarran
F: Betts Fevola Austin

I/C: Robinson O'keeffe* Hadley Kreuzer

Emerg: Hampson Armfield Anderson Garlett

Our bottom six isn't going to improve if Walker doesn't get back to his best.

What did Scotty do wrong TG