if you could make a new team what would it be?

[KillaKanga]

I vote either Melbourne or North Melbourne fold to keep it at 18 teams.

and I vote for Richmond to fold.

But there's no actual ballot is there?

I'm amazed how people can so flippantly call the death of a club with such history. Guess those people are in favour of euthanasia?

I'd go for a Tassie team and have green and brown.

 

[Colonial]

I'm amazed how people can so flippantly call the death of a club with such history. Guess those people are in favour of euthanasia?
.

Agreed until this line, Have a terminal painfull illness then and only then condem people who believe in it.

 

[KillaKanga]

Agreed until this line, Have a terminal painfull illness then and only then condem people who believe in it.

sorry to offend anyone it was more how easily an important call can be made.

I actually believe in it in certain circumstances but I'd agonise over it and not just go 'Sure flip that switch doc'

 

[Colonial]

sorry to offend anyone it was more how easily an important call can be made.

I actually believe in it in certain circumstances but I'd agonise over it and not just go 'Sure flip that switch doc'

Fair nuff. As i said I agree with how it baffles me how people can call for the death of clubs.. Of course until its their own on the chopping block..

 

[madmug]

Fair nuff. As i said I agree with how it baffles me how people can call for the death of clubs.. Of course until its their own on the chopping block..

And I suspect it didnt have to happen if the AFL was set up properly in the first place. Its very hard to fix up an obvious stuff up after the event.
Starting new teams which have affected the WAFL & SANFL was ok. But when it comes to sorting out the mess caused by starting off with too many VFL suburban clubs, some of whom were & are not up to the task of a national level competition, all of a sudden its a problem.
I suspect the VFL/AFL knew it would create problems but didnt have the guts to sort it our in the beginning.
So it continues.

 

[Gibbke]

To call it "guts to sort it out" is silly. That was never their perspective, because the twelve VFL clubs voted to include new sides for the licence fees to prop themselves up (10-2, the clubs opposed being Hawthorn and Collingwood)...never mind the guts, they never had the power...

 

[Gibbke]

I've taught in North QLD and Brisbane and been surprised by the followers up here. A lot of us are ex pats from VIC but on average in the the staff and parents/kids at the 5 schools I've taught at is about 25-30%.

Very surprising. Every school I go to has a tipping comp/footy team and people who where team polo's etc.

I'm in the western corridor going to Ipswich, supposedly Australia's fastest growing region according whichever stat you need to manipulate. Out here it's zero. I've been involved in 20 schools here in S.Brisbane (East and SW), and of these only Victoria Point and Corinda get behind AFL programmes...Corinda had Rod Lester-Smith as coach and an AFL excellence programme, but when he left it died...down came the goalposts and they demolished their shed...moving out here, there is absolutely nothing - Alfie Langer territory...Israel Folau is a cult hero because he was an islander and a junior at Goodna Eagles RL, but none of the kids can name the AFL team he just played for...there are schools which love their footy in this state, but the game just isn't part of the culture...it's an add-on fad...

 

[madmug]

To call it "guts to sort it out" is silly. That was never their perspective, because the twelve VFL clubs voted to include new sides for the licence fees to prop themselves up (10-2, the clubs opposed being Hawthorn and Collingwood)...never mind the guts, they never had the power...

Starting with the VFL was the problem. Having one state then adding on bits to suit themselves in an ad hoc manner has created this mess.
It should have had a separate organisation set up by all the states & then have clubs/consortiums put in bids with proper business cases covering the sort of criteria that need to be addressed.
The VFL wanted to keep power, control & was only interested in itself & its clubs, so it destroyed the existing national body & assumed control of the process.
Its exactley what happenned when the TFL started the state league her in 1985. It was poorly set up & managed even worse.

 

[KillaKanga]

I'm in the western corridor going to Ipswich, supposedly Australia's fastest growing region according whichever stat you need to manipulate. Out here it's zero. I've been involved in 20 schools here in S.Brisbane (East and SW), and of these only Victoria Point and Corinda get behind AFL programmes...Corinda had Rod Lester-Smith as coach and an AFL excellence programme, but when he left it died...down came the goalposts and they demolished their shed...moving out here, there is absolutely nothing - Alfie Langer territory...Israel Folau is a cult hero because he was an islander and a junior at Goodna Eagles RL, but none of the kids can name the AFL team he just played for...there are schools which love their footy in this state, but the game just isn't part of the culture...it's an add-on fad...

Interesting I'm in the Mt Ommaney area and at lunchtime it's 50% kicking a soccer ball, 25% AFL and 25%rugby league/rough tackling/fighting and arguing.

Heaps of the staff are AFL fans and wear the mersh etc.

I did my final prac at Blair SS (Alfies old school) and it was gayfl for sure. Most of the AFL support is from ex-pats but lets be honest there's a hell of a lot of us.

 

[blaze036]

Starting with the VFL was the problem. Having one state then adding on bits to suit themselves in an ad hoc manner has created this mess.
It should have had a separate organisation set up by all the states & then have clubs/consortiums put in bids with proper business cases covering the sort of criteria that need to be addressed.
The VFL wanted to keep power, control & was only interested in itself & its clubs, so it destroyed the existing national body & assumed control of the process.
Its exactley what happenned when the TFL started the state league her in 1985. It was poorly set up & managed even worse.

Hate to disappoint you... but their really isn't a "mess" as much as tasmanian fans would love to think their is... the current 18 team system is doing very well, and gets some of the highest crowds in the world

 

[madmug]

Hate to disappoint you... but their really isn't a "mess" as much as tasmanian fans would love to think their is... the current 18 team system is doing very well, and gets some of the highest crowds in the world

Thats funny! You should try reading the BF boards. Lots of people discussing club problems. Some clubs cant make money even with good size crowds. I wonder why that is?
The current 18 team system is not doing too well according to many people. Some clubs appear downright rooted.
Also I dont 'wish' to think their is a problem. I would like fewer problems than supporters are discussing.
The real 'problems' have arisen because of how the AFL was set up in the first place. Unless of course you want to close your ears & eyes & go 'no no no no no no no, yah ya yah yah, no no no no' like many seem to.

 

[blaze036]

Thats funny! You should try reading the BF boards. Lots of people discussing club problems. Some clubs cant make money even with good size crowds. I wonder why that is?
The current 18 team system is not doing too well according to many people. Some clubs appear downright rooted.
Also I dont 'wish' to think their is a problem. I would like fewer problems than supporters are discussing.
The real 'problems' have arisen because of how the AFL was set up in the first place. Unless of course you want to close your ears & eyes & go 'no no no no no no no, yah ya yah yah, no no no no' like many seem to.

hawthorn appeared "downright rooted" in the 80's, and collingwood not that long after... look at them now...
All clubs are financially viable, and their crowds/membership will only continue to grow in the future as Victoria's population grows. The 18 team system is doing fine for everyone apart from AFL-house hating cynics and tasmanian's filled with envy that victoria has 10 teams and they have none

 

[madmug]

hawthorn appeared "downright rooted" in the 80's, and collingwood not that long after... look at them now...
All clubs are financially viable, and their crowds/membership will only continue to grow in the future as Victoria's population grows. The 18 team system is doing fine for everyone apart from AFL-house hating cynics and tasmanian's filled with envy that victoria has 10 teams and they have none

You really do live in your own little world. Just answer all comments with tiny minded little barbs. Its about your standard.
Just keep going 'no no no yah yah yah' all will be good.

 

[blaze036]

You really do live in your own little world. Just answer all comments with tiny minded little barbs. Its about your standard.
Just keep going 'no no no yah yah yah' all will be good.

nice retort.

 

[Gibbke]

Starting with the VFL was the problem. Having one state then adding on bits to suit themselves in an ad hoc manner has created this mess.
It should have had a separate organisation set up by all the states & then have clubs/consortiums put in bids with proper business cases covering the sort of criteria that need to be addressed.
The VFL wanted to keep power, control & was only interested in itself & its clubs, so it destroyed the existing national body & assumed control of the process.
Its exactley what happenned when the TFL started the state league her in 1985. It was poorly set up & managed even worse.

So would it have worked...?

I think not. Without Victorian support, no Australian Football naional comp can work. Expecting Collingwood and Carlton fans or any of the other teams supporters to jump ship and go for the new Vic teams is absolutely unrealistic...they'll follow their old teams down into the VFA, and you could bet any of those teams would do what they could to stay as top shelf as possible anyway...any attempt to take the cream of the good players would be met with serious opposition, no matter how much VFL admin support went imto the new venture...

And would anyone barrack for the new teams at all? They might, but you'd be looking at numbers no better than a Saturday afternoon at the MCG between Melbourne and Port...bugger all. And bugger all is a subjective term - 20000 is a poor crowd at the G in 2012, but in the mid 1980's it was par for the course, or even a good day. They wouldn't have gotten this number to such matches back then, and all the leagues were in financial difficulty - if the bills didn't get paid quickly, a new league would fall over...

Draft, salary cap, equalisation, tv rights...? All years away...the existing clubs would have put up a brick wall, and the fans wouldn't have turned up...the existing VFL was the only vehicle that could have ever given us an AFL...

 

[Gibbke]

[quote="blaze036, post: 26409962, member: ]tasmanian's filled with envy that victoria has 10 teams and they have none[/quote]Have no fear, dude - we might not agree on the landscape, but Madmug and myself are hellbent on seeing a dark green two headed monster invading the AFL and smashing the f### out of mainlanders on a weekly basis...a trip to Tasmania being the equivalent of an away game to Kardinia, 20000 feral Tasmanians making Collingwood supporters want their mums, and a premiership cup wrapped in Dark Green...works for me...would make better tv than the latest empty house at Skoda, too...

 

[madmug]

My view on how the AFL should have developed is just that, my view. Seeing how many Victorian clubs sell games & how many BF posters are happy to 'execute' other clubs shows that many people see their is a problem in the balance of the AFL. I think my opinion is quite valid.
However I do recognise the reality. We Have what we have! The question is, how do we improve it. That is the basis of my comments.
I dont want clubs destroyed. I think the AFL can acheive a better balance by using the current state based competitions. ie send some Victorian clubs back to the VFL where they will survive & prosper. Bring in a 3rd WA, Tassie , and backing GWS & GC, Monitoring Brisbane (who are very important IMO). I think (hope) Port will be fine when the new Adelaide Oval is complete.
Thats it in a nut shell.

 

[blaze036]

My view on how the AFL should have developed is just that, my view. Seeing how many Victorian clubs sell games & how many BF posters are happy to 'execute' other clubs shows that many people see their is a problem in the balance of the AFL. I think my opinion is quite valid.
However I do recognise the reality. We Have what we have! The question is, how do we improve it. That is the basis of my comments.
I dont want clubs destroyed. I think the AFL can acheive a better balance by using the current state based competitions. ie send some Victorian clubs back to the VFL where they will survive & prosper. Bring in a 3rd WA, Tassie , and backing GWS & GC, Monitoring Brisbane (who are very important IMO). I think (hope) Port will be fine when the new Adelaide Oval is complete.
Thats it in a nut shell.

Sending a club to the VFL or below is destroying it...

BF posters are "happy to execute other clubs" only in BF, not real life.

Agree with 3rd WA next / Tasmania being next... but both of them would be expensive and don't really add much to the competition. They just take existing supporters and change them to a new team, and spread the talent even thinner. With WA's population boom there would definitely be room in 10-20 years, but it still wouldn't be adding much, just taking freo/wce supporters and changing their colors.

Until Tasmania's population starts to improve, putting a team there is a very expensive way to take supporters away from clubs like north melbourne and put them in another small team.

 

[Kwality]

Sending a club to the VFL or below is destroying it...

BF posters are "happy to execute other clubs" only in BF, not real life.

Agree with 3rd WA next / Tasmania being next... but both of them would be expensive and don't really add much to the competition. They just take existing supporters and change them to a new team, and spread the talent even thinner. With WA's population boom there would definitely be room in 10-20 years, but it still wouldn't be adding much, just taking freo/wce supporters and changing their colors.

Until Tasmania's population starts to improve, putting a team there is a very expensive way to take supporters away from clubs like north melbourne and put them in another small team.

WA fans are committed, like the Pies, the Eagles will remain a powerhouse with 60% of footy fans following them, not looking for a new side so beloved of those east of the rabbit proof fence ... a 3rd team will simply produce another side on AFL support, unable to put bums on seats etc. Imagine the chagrin of some when the Eagles grow much faster than the pies, albeit without taking pensioners to the cleaners via the pokies (the Pies have lots, the Eagles have none).

Yep, I was a Subi supporter (& still am), but now I'm an Eagles fan .. why do Victorians think their footy clubs are special, just elitist nonsense, the world owes me a living, no wonder Victorians keep membership of the AFL Commission to the in crowd .. numnut yes men & women will receive mindless support but any free thinkers will be cast aside.

North are trumpetting their effort pick pocketting the Tassie taxpayer, just like the other mob on the east of Melbourne, trumpetting their ability to bludge on the weakest financially of the Aus States . The self proclaimed heartland of the game bludging on a nursery of the game, beat your chest you self interested spin merchants, backed by a press corps reliant on back groundings, leaks & a free beer, a tea or cofee & a scone.

Taking the tough decisions is not for those who profess the right to rule, but you cant let opposing opinions be expressed a la McGuire & Elliot. Imagine this duo ever acting in the best interests of the game, ..

36, there are too many teams in Melbourne, a team in Tas is an investment OUR game should make, albeit at the expense of teams in Melbourne.

 

[blaze036]

WA fans are committed, like the Pies, the Eagles will remain a powerhouse with 60% of footy fans following them, not looking for a new side so beloved of those east of the rabbit proof fence ... a 3rd team will simply produce another side on AFL support, unable to put bums on seats etc. Imagine the chagrin of some when the Eagles grow much faster than the pies, albeit without taking pensioners to the cleaners via the pokies (the Pies have lots, the Eagles have none).

Yep, I was a Subi supporter (& still am), but now I'm an Eagles fan .. why do Victorians think their footy clubs are special, just elitist nonsense, the world owes me a living, no wonder Victorians keep membership of the AFL Commission to the in crowd .. numnut yes men & women will receive mindless support but any free thinkers will be cast aside.

North are trumpetting their effort pick pocketting the Tassie taxpayer, just like the other mob on the east of Melbourne, trumpetting their ability to bludge on the weakest financially of the Aus States . The self proclaimed heartland of the game bludging on a nursery of the game, beat your chest you self interested spin merchants, backed by a press corps reliant on back groundings, leaks & a free beer, a tea or cofee & a scone.

Taking the tough decisions is not for those who profess the right to rule, but you cant let opposing opinions be expressed a la McGuire & Elliot. Imagine this duo ever acting in the best interests of the game, ..

36, there are too many teams in Melbourne, a team in Tas is an investment OUR game should make, albeit at the expense of teams in Melbourne.

A team in tasmania is an investment HOW?

North are pick pocketing the tasmanian government? lol are you serious dude.

The tasmania government chose to spend that money as an investment to bring more money to the state... a team in tasmania is not at investment at all where are you getting these ideas from

nonsense laughable points due to your irrational and sad hate of victoria.

 

[Gibbke]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/151212/default.aspx

 

[Kwality]

A team in tasmania is an investment HOW?

North are pick pocketing the tasmanian government? lol are you serious dude.

The tasmania government chose to spend that money as an investment to bring more money to the state... a team in tasmania is not at investment at all where are you getting these ideas from

nonsense laughable points due to your irrational and sad hate of victoria.

Sure you are not able to consider a counter view 36, particularly & very specifically an elitist self serving view of the game we all love, not just you !!

Criticism of the status quo dominated by one postcode prefix is not hate by any measure ... hate is sad, sad36, step up & address your problem cos I live in Vic by choice ... what, it doesnt suit your self serving mightier than thou, view of the world .. there are too many teams in Melbourne, these clubs have about the same claim to elitism as Kennett or McGuire or Elliot (all paragons of virtue), & anyone can take the ostriches view of reality ...

Now Tassie: strip Victoria of Tassie taxpayer funds, add Mars sponsorship money (yep, it was diverted to yet another Melbourne club **) , & a Tassie side gets 11 home games (unless it is stripped of a game to pump up a side from ... yep, pump up a Melbourne side like the Pies. The winner: Tassie, the loser: the Melbourne clubs ... shock, horror eh 36. you & your elitist mates are expected to pull your weight OR do you believe you are entitled to a leg up ...

** Bluebaggers eh, so thats 3 Melbourne clubs benefitting from denying one of footys nurserys a team, to keep the self proclaimed footy heartland living beyond its means.

A team in Tas is an investment for Tas, not Vic, fair dinkum ... dont bludge on those weaker than yourself, help them. Is our game your priority or is it your backyard, you & your mates, not our great game ??

 

[blaze036]

Sure you are not able to consider a counter view 36, particularly & very specifically an elitist self serving view of the game we all love, not just you !!

Criticism of the status quo dominated by one postcode prefix is not hate by any measure ... hate is sad, sad36, step up & address your problem cos I live in Vic by choice ... what, it doesnt suit your self serving mightier than thou, view of the world .. there are too many teams in Melbourne, these clubs have about the same claim to elitism as Kennett or McGuire or Elliot (all paragons of virtue), & anyone can take the ostriches view of reality ...

Now Tassie: strip Victoria of Tassie taxpayer funds, add Mars sponsorship money (yep, it was diverted to yet another Melbourne club **) , & a Tassie side gets 11 home games (unless it is stripped of a game to pump up a side from ... yep, pump up a Melbourne side like the Pies. The winner: Tassie, the loser: the Melbourne clubs ... shock, horror eh 36. you & your elitist mates are expected to pull your weight OR do you believe you are entitled to a leg up ...

** Bluebaggers eh, so thats 3 Melbourne clubs benefitting from denying one of footys nurserys a team, to keep the self proclaimed footy heartland living beyond its means.

A team in Tas is an investment for Tas, not Vic, fair dinkum ... dont bludge on those weaker than yourself, help them. Is our game your priority or is it your backyard, you & your mates, not our great game ??

You failed to answer both of my queries.. how is an tasmanian team an investment for the AFL, and how is the tasmanian government being pick pocketed, when they agree to the terms to increase the wealth of their economy????

 

[Kwality]

You failed to answer both of my queries.. how is an tasmanian team an investment for the AFL, and how is the tasmanian government being pick pocketed, when they agree to the terms to increase the wealth of their economy????

Its an investment for Tas in the local economy thru 11 games, not 6 for the same money. For the AFL, its about developing our nursery, that became a raping ground in the VFL days, happy to take the likes of Ian Stewart, Roy Sart, the Doc, Tassie Johnson, Verdun Howell, Huddo, Max Walker etc, & Tas footy will benefit from renewal so AFL footy will benefit from the investment.

How are Taswegian taxpayers being pick pocketted, try 6 games, not the 11 they should receive for the money kicked in.. Now 36, you need to stand up here, how many of the games played in Tas would make a profit in Melbourne, is it that nil, NO, how about zero, zilch, squatt ...
The AFL stand over Tas, pay up or get no games, to benefit Melbourne clubs unable to make a game in Melbourne make a profit.

How about addressing the number of games played in Melbourne that dont break even, WHY ??:
IF its not too many teams in Melbourne, is it too many games in Melbourne so the faithful dont put their bum in a seat.

 

[blaze036]

Its an investment for Tas in the local economy thru 11 games, not 6 for the same money. For the AFL, its about developing our nursery, that became a raping ground in the VFL days, happy to take the likes of Ian Stewart, Roy Sart, the Doc, Tassie Johnson, Verdun Howell, Huddo, Max Walker etc, & Tas footy will benefit from renewal so AFL footy will benefit from the investment.

How are Taswegian taxpayers being pick pocketted, try 6 games, not the 11 they should receive for the money kicked in.. Now 36, you need to stand up here, how many of the games played in Tas would make a profit in Melbourne, is it that nil, NO, how about zero, zilch, squatt ...
The AFL stand over Tas, pay up or get no games, to benefit Melbourne clubs unable to make a game in Melbourne make a profit.

How about addressing the number of games played in Melbourne that dont break even, WHY ??:
IF its not too many teams in Melbourne, is it too many games in Melbourne so the faithful dont put their bum in a seat.

I am not denying it might be an investment for Tasmania, but the question was how is it an investment for the AFL, and all you could answer was "developing our nursery" (where only a very small portion of players are picked from, and will continue to decrease in the future). You can say "raping ground" (even though i think it is against BF rules), but it is a feeder comp and did what feeder comps are suppose to do, give the best players to the better leagues where the standard and pay is higher.

The Tasmanian government only made this agreement with the clubs as an INVESTMENT to make MORE money for the state (tourism ect), they did NOT make the arrangement to lose a lot of money and cost tasmanian tax payers.

Does every game played need to break even? is that even possible? some teams will always struggle to break even when playing small drawing opponents (something a tassy team wouldn't help), this happens right around the world and is just a part of footy, its not an issue.

AFL has the 3rd highest attendance in the world despite having a relatively tiny population compared to other sport loving countries, we have NO trouble getting bums on seats.