If you lived in 1914...

[PeteLX]

Would I even have a choice? When did conscription come in?

If I had a choice, I'd say no. Maybe join the merchant navy or something. Bugger the trenches!

 

[Fred]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Concientious objectors were locked up in jail, had their civil rights denied, were vilified and persecuted.

They were treated like traitors and heretics.

Yes, it took balls to enlist, but in 1914 it took even more balls to be a concientious objector.

cheers

So it takes more balls to face taunts than bullets?

 

[Bomber Spirit]

I wouldn't have wanted to, but as BSA mentioned, the pressure placed on someone to join up would have been overwhelming. I think I'd have joined up and "done my duty".

 

[soph_swannie24]

What about now? If World War III broke out next week...would you go?

IMO WWIII is pretty likely to happen eventually, which is completely ridiculous considering how most people would say that War in general is tragic and the loss of life alone is absolutely shocking...yet govenments all over the world still consider declaring and taking part in war even though they know the regrets of past wars and agree that there never really were "winners" as a result of them.

Cheers, soph

 

[Dodongo]

Dodongo would have gone to war.

 

[Pessimistic]

They say young aussies volunteered for the two world wars in droves partly because Australia was really boring at the time.

Think of all the people who Go bungie jumping, base jumping, parachuting, hang gliding these days. They might have gone to war back then for adventure.

Today is very different as the peer pressure is completely different.

But I must say that I was in Britain around the time of the falklands war, which must be in the running for the most pointless war ever.

But the patritism kicked in and many were cheering when argies gor killed. There were enough enlisted military personnel but they did ask for volunteers from the merchant marine. They got those in there droves. I qualified for that but defintely was not interested. I was shocked that a so-called civilised soceity could go 'to war' so quickly.


So the answer is I would pass, if given the chance.

 

[skilts]

Anti-war slogan from the 60s: "Fighting for peace is like ****ing for virginity."

Another quote: "You can be the first one on your block to have your boy come home in a box." - 'Country' Joe McDonald, 'Fixin' to Die Rag'.

Which of your twenty year old friends would you like to be the first one to die, whilst saving Australia?

 

[Portia]

I would have tried to join, with the same fervor with which I barrack for Port. Probably wouldn't have had much show on the front lines though - would depend on how desperate the recruiters were for bodies when I joined.

Just translate "If you're not a member, you're not a supporter" to "If you don't join up, you're not an Australian", and I think you'd see most people here wanting to join up.

 

[vanders]

Being a chick, id have to say no, coz i wouldnt have been allowed to.

I would have been tempted to go as a nurse but i have a very weak stomach

Come to think of it, could i have gone as entertainment

 

[Curly5]

Originally posted by The Hitman
Call me gutless, call me lazy, call me whatever - I could and would never go to war. I'm not strictly a pacifist, but I value my life too much to risk it in such circumstances, especially at my young age.

That said, I have the utmost respect for anyone that does serve, and I am very grateful for the ultimate sacrifice that others have made before me.

The Hitman

If our country was under threat, I suspect you might think differently.

 

[daicos4ever]

Originally posted by The Hitman
By the way, if you want to see the full horrors of war, get the book All Quiet On The Western Front by Erich Maria Remarque. Simply, it's the best book I've ever read (just read it for the second time), and it's written from the perspective of a German soldier in WWI.

It's a book that everyone should read once.

The Hitman

Couldn't agree more. It is that good that I used it in my Year 12 English Oral last year to tie in with my other war text, Fly Away Peter

 

[Bucks]

Originally posted by The Hitman
By the way, if you want to see the full horrors of war, get the book All Quiet On The Western Front by Erich Maria Remarque. Simply, it's the best book I've ever read (just read it for the second time), and it's written from the perspective of a German soldier in WWI.

It's a book that everyone should read once.

The Hitman

i saw the movie All Quite on the Western Front and it does show us the futility of war... but it does show great mateship and thats what pulls us together to fight.

 

[Pessimistic]

Originally posted by Curly5

If our country was under threat, I suspect you might think differently.

Was Australia under threat from the First world war ? I don't know.

In the Second world war the threat came after all the volunteers ahd shipped off to singapore and europe. In the end had to rely on the Yanks for security.

The question supposes that vast numbers of troops are needed for modern warfare(which they aren't) and by fighting in another country eg Afghanistan You are protecting australia from invasion.

In other words a war you might think is Just but does not directly threaten australian soil.

 

[Fred]

Originally posted by Pessimistic


Was Australia under threat from the First world war ? I don't know.

In the Second world war the threat came after all the volunteers ahd shipped off to singapore and europe. In the end had to rely on the Yanks for security.

The question supposes that vast numbers of troops are needed for modern warfare(which they aren't) and by fighting in another country eg Afghanistan You are protecting australia from invasion.

In other words a war you might think is Just but does not directly threaten australian soil.

What a load of rubbish. Why do you think we had troops in New Guinea from 1940?

 

[The Power Guy]

I don't think I could go, simply because I know now what lay ahead of those soldiers. But, back then, they had no idea of the horrors of war, and I think that is the sad part. They went over there to fight, thinking that they would come back soon, and then they found out how bad it was when they got there.

 

[Asgardian]

Fred, it's an interesting point about the troops that Australia initially had available to send to New Guinea, when the threat there first became apparent.
The volunteer troops (AIF) had been sent to Africa, plus there were many 1000's in Singapore. Our troop numbers in Singapore mounted significantly after Dec 7th, 1941.
Shortly after that time the Australian government began to try and get the AIF back from Africa, without initial success. Menzies was then defeated in general election by John Curtin, who then demanded the AIF return to defend home soil. This was eventually agreed to, but logistically was impossible to comply with immediately.
As the Japanese swept through the Malay peninsula, Singapore and Indonesia, finally landing in the northern parts of New Guinea, and then attempting a landing in Milne Bay.
Seeing what was happening, Curtin was able to introduce a limited form of conscription, the limiting factor was that it was illegal for these conscripts to be sent away from Australian soil to fight. Curtin was content with this, until he saw the Japanese advancing so rapidly through the islands to our north. Then when the inital Japanese landings happened in New Guinea, Curtin, knowing the AIF was still many months away from our shores, played on a technicality in the conscription act. He was able to send the "Australian soil only" conscripts to New Guinea, because at that time, it was an Australian protectorate, hence Australian soil.
The Australian conscripts landed in Pt Morseby, and were sent into the Owen Stanley Ranges to take Kakoda with its airstrip before the Japanese could get there. Unfortunately, poorly supplied and poorly armed, they were unable to hold back the advancing Japanese army. The initial fighting happened at Kakoda, and thereafter the Australian conscripts were fighting a delaying action whilst retreating along the Kakoda trail.

The rest is probably very well known, which I can detail if anyone wants me to

BTW, the troops you referred to in New Guinea from 1940 was a small detachment. The Japanese did not make overt moves against English, French or Dutch possessions until after Pearl Harbour, the next day as a matter fact I believe.

 

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by daicos4ever


Couldn't agree more. It is that good that I used it in my Year 12 English Oral last year to tie in with my other war text, Fly Away Peter

I'm thinking about using an issue tied in with the book for my oral, but we'll see.

Curly or Fred, it's personal. You don't need every single person in the country fighting, and personally I would rather go to jail than fight. Why should I risk my life for something that people in suits at the top started. Again, I will use a reference from All Quiet on the Western Front.

"He proposes that a declaration of war should be a kind of popular festival with entrance-tickets and bands, like a bull fight. Then in the arena the ministers and generals of the two countries, dressed in bathing-drawers and armed with clubs, can have it out among themselves. Whoever survives, his country wins. That would be much simpler and more just than this arrangement, where the wrong people do the fighting."

My thoughts exactly...

The Hitman

 

[play on]

Originally posted by The Hitman


personally I would rather go to jail than fight. Why should I risk my life for something that people in suits at the top started.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[hilly]

Originally posted by The Power Guy
I don't think I could go, simply because I know now what lay ahead of those soldiers. But, back then, they had no idea of the horrors of war, and I think that is the sad part. They went over there to fight, thinking that they would come back soon, and then they found out how bad it was when they got there.

I think I read once that some of the young men who left for WW1 thought the war would be akin to a game of rugby

 

[Curly5]

Originally posted by The Hitman


I'm thinking about using an issue tied in with the book for my oral, but we'll see.

Curly or Fred, it's personal. You don't need every single person in the country fighting, and personally I would rather go to jail than fight. Why should I risk my life for something that people in suits at the top started. Again, I will use a reference from All Quiet on the Western Front.
"He proposes that a declaration of war should be a kind of popular festival with entrance-tickets and bands, like a bull fight. Then in the arena the ministers and generals of the two countries, dressed in bathing-drawers and armed with clubs, can have it out among themselves. Whoever survives, his country wins. That would be much simpler and more just than this arrangement, where the wrong people do the fighting."
My thoughts exactly...

The Hitman

Hitman, as one of the "more mature" contributors to this board I probably have a slightly more personal viewpoint on this subject.

My dad was a WWII vet and my hubby was drafted for Vietnam. In WW1 and II, the thinking of the time was that it was our duty to serve. My dad was a clerk at the time, and not a gungho soldier looking for adventure; rather he enlisted because loyalty to the crown was still strong and along with most of the young people of the time (women included) he felt he should contribute. (He had poor eyesight but was still accepted.) At that time there wasn't the benefit of hindsight, except that they felt that the horrors of WW1 were being revived and that they must be stopped. Of course there was nothing like the communications and media coverage and debate that later conflicts have had the benefit of.

Vietnam as we know was a different sort of war and we were there to oil up to the Americans and there was plenty of dissent. My husband refused to go to Vietnam for your very reasons: he disagreed with the war and our motives for being involved.

However we don't know what any future conflicts or threats might involve, and I repeat that if Australia came under direct threat, I have no doubt that our people, of all ages, would not lie down and let us be invaded. I hope that you never have the occasion to test your beliefs.

"All Quiet...." is a magnificent book (and there is a sequel too) but this type of long term face to face warfare is not likely to be repeated in view of the technology now available.