India v Pakistan

[Johnny Bananas]

The more interesting thing is which side various countries back, this will determine the propaganda. The whole world has been pretty right wing since the 80's

India was more non aligned during the cold war, bought a lot of soviet arms, more European these days.
Pakistan was historically US backed and they recently had a hand in deposing Imran Khan. Chinese arms, belt and road, and nuclear help though

Everyone obvs calling for de-escalation at this point, very unpredictable

I think Pakistan they made it very clear in Afghanistan that they were telling the US everything they wanted to hear to their faces, while backing the Taliban the whole time. If the US still favour Pakistan after all of that, they are rubes.

Of course, Pakistan fell out with the Taliban almost immediately after the war ended, so that tale hasn't really ended well for anyone except the Taliban.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Just as an aside the leaders were only ever found guilty of genociding Vietnamese people on the border regions, something like 20k people because you can't really genocide your own ethnicity. Pol Pot was never tried even though he lived until 1998(deposed in '78), mainly thanks to US and Chinese diplomatic cover.

I mean you can, just like you can murder your entire family. It's just not really a racist thing.

 

[barreness]

I mean you can, just like you can murder your entire family. It's just not really a racist thing.

Yes I know, more how the crime of genocide is defined in international courts

 

[barreness]

I think Pakistan they made it very clear in Afghanistan that they were telling the US everything they wanted to hear to their faces, while backing the Taliban the whole time. If the US still favour Pakistan after all of that, they are rubes.

Of course, Pakistan fell out with the Taliban almost immediately after the war ended, so that tale hasn't really ended well for anyone except the Taliban.

Yes, it's all very complicated

It appeared the ISI overthrew Imran with US approval, at the least. Does this mean they'll back them like in east pakistan or they've bought into China too much. With Trump, I really don't know how it's going to go

 

[barreness]

Bulletin of atomic scientists did a study on a nuclear conflict between India and Pakistan in 2019.

https://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/IndiaPakistanBullAtomSci.pdf
It is the year 2025, and terrorists attack the Indian
Parliament. In December 2001, a terrorist attack on
the Indian Parliament resulted in the deaths of 12
people, including the 5 terrorists. This time, however,
the attacks kill many more members of the
Indian government. As happened in January 2002,
both sides mobilize and deploy their troops along
the border between the countries and in the disputed
area of Kashmir. Because of the high tensions
on both sides, skirmishes break out, and there are
deaths on both sides. Since the Indian government
has lost so many leaders, the Indian Army decides
to act on its own, crossing the border into Pakistan
with tanks and also the de facto border, known as
the Line of Control, in Kashmir.
Pakistani generals panic and decide that the only way
they can repulse an invasion by the superior Indian forces is
with nuclear weapons. On the first day of the nuclear war,
they use 10 tactical atomic bombs – each with a yield of
5 kilotons, or less than half the power of the bomb dropped
on Hiroshima – inside their own borders, detonating them
at low altitude, as air bursts against the Indian tanks.


Not far off Mr fancy scientists, Modi could be viewed as a lack of leadership

 

[CD Xbow]

India have reportedly struck Pakistan again at multiple site with Israeli made Harrop drones. This was after they said they were trying not to escalate.
https:// www.dawn.com/live/pakistan-india-tension

The infosphere is being flooded with claims and counter claims so it's pretty hard to know what is factual. Many military forums have been flooded with new posters delivering propaganda. Pakistan claims 24 different 'impacts' were reported in the initial strike, hitting six localities and resulting in 31 Pakistani civilians killed and 57 injured. Pakistan claims they shot down 5 IAF planes, including a Rafael, the top of the line French fighter. There seems good evidence of India losing at least 3 planes, including a Rafael. If this is true, it's seems a poor performance by the IAF. One Rafael was shot down 100kms within India, this is suspected to be via a long range PL15, the PRC latest air to air missile. Warzone talks about it some detail here:
https://www.twz.com/air/chinas-pl-1...rs-to-have-been-used-in-combat-for-first-time

Allegedly Chinese defence stocks have risen, I suspect Dassault stocks may have fallen.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-07/china-s-defense-stocks-are-big-winners-in-india-pakistan-clash

 

[1990crow]

1/0 in the first over.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Mofra]

This seems very different to 1999.
Both militaries are led by hawks in this latest round, where previously but sides were keen to de-escalate.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Andre]

This seems very different to 1999.
Both militaries are led by hawks in this latest round, where previously but sides were keen to de-escalate.

That and there's an idiot in the White House, who'll do nothing to try and de-escalate it. Europe might have tried, except they've got Russia to worry about. China would love India weakening themselves against Pakistan, given they have a border dispute. That doesn't leave a lot of leverage being applied to either side to step back.

I don't think either side wants to escalate it too far, but both sides also want to be seen as 'getting in the last punch', before it's called off. Hopefully they keep it as, relatively, low level attacks and counter-attacks before egos are soothed.

 

[Total Power]

This seems very different to 1999.
Both militaries are led by hawks in this latest round, where previously but sides were keen to de-escalate.

One is an unelected government with a war criminal like Muneer who publicly voiced his disgust against Hindus and jailed Imran Khan resulting in riots which was brutally crushed.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Total Power]

 

[CD Xbow]

Trump is claiming a ceasefire has commenced mediated by the US

Operation Sindoor Live Updates: India-Pakistan ceasefire came after long night of talks, says Trump

Operation Sindoor news: India launched precision strikes overnight on six key Pakistani airbases - Rafiqui, Murid, Chaklala, Rahim Yar Khan, Sukkur and Chunian - causing heavy damage to military infrastructure and assets, government sources confirmed on Saturday. The operation followed a series...

www.indiatoday.in

 

[CD Xbow]

After a shaky start the ceasefire is in place

India and Pakistan agree to stoppage of hostilities from 5 pm today - CNBC TV18

The DGMO Pakistan called DGMO India at 3 pm. They will talk again on May 12. US President Donald Trump announcing on his Truth Social account that "India and Pakistan have agreed to a full and immediate ceasefire."

www.cnbctv18.com

Let's hope it holds and further de-escalation occurs.

 

[CD Xbow]

CNN reporting the ceasefire is holding. The words the 2 sides are using suggest to me each will claim victory and de-escalate. Every man and his dog taking credit for it.

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/india-pakistan-operation-sindoor-05-10-25

Added - India claiming victory, terrorists eliminated, x number of Pakistan soldiers killed

India Pakistan News Highlights: 35-40 Pak soldiers killed at LoC; IC-814 hijackers, Pulwama attackers eliminated in Op Sindoor, say Armed Forces

India Pakistan Today Latest News LIVE Updates: Air Marshal A K Bharti displayed before and after pictures of the terror targets destroyed by India on May 7.

indianexpress.com

Pakistan claiming victory

Modi facing global humiliation: Fazl | The Express Tribune

JUI-F chief says India's conspiracy to undermine Pakistan after Pahalgam attack failed

tribune.com.pk

 

[barreness]

CNN reporting the ceasefire is holding. The words the 2 sides are using suggest to me each will claim victory and de-escalate. Every man and his dog taking credit for it.

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/india-pakistan-operation-sindoor-05-10-25

Added - India claiming victory, terrorists eliminated, x number of Pakistan soldiers killed

India Pakistan News Highlights: 35-40 Pak soldiers killed at LoC; IC-814 hijackers, Pulwama attackers eliminated in Op Sindoor, say Armed Forces

India Pakistan Today Latest News LIVE Updates: Air Marshal A K Bharti displayed before and after pictures of the terror targets destroyed by India on May 7.

indianexpress.com

Pakistan claiming victory

Modi facing global humiliation: Fazl | The Express Tribune

JUI-F chief says India's conspiracy to undermine Pakistan after Pahalgam attack failed

tribune.com.pk

Hopefully it holds, the water issue still remains and will drive conflict beyond any petty religious/historical thing in the very near future.


https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...ded-despite-ceasefire-sources-say-2025-05-10/
Pakistan denied involvement in the violence and had said it was preparing international legal action over the suspension of the treaty, which ensures water for 80% of its farms.
"Indus Waters Treaty was not really a part of (ceasefire) discussions," said a source from Pakistan's water ministry.
An Indian government source also told Reuters there was "no change in stand" on the treaty.

 

[Sydneyfan]

Just watched a couple of interesting videos: India’s Plan to Checkmate Pakistan & China & China’s Plan as iPhone production moves to India that look at this recent India-Pakistan conflict from the wider lens of a broader China-India Cold War with its most recent flashpoint via China’s proxy Pakistan. An angle I hadn’t considered until now but one that definitely makes sense seeing as China and India are competing powers, share a fraught history and share multiple territorial and historical grievances against each other and competing aims for the future.

 

[Mofra]

Just watched a couple of interesting videos: India’s Plan to Checkmate Pakistan & China & China’s Plan as iPhone production moves to India that look at this recent India-Pakistan conflict from the wider lens of a broader China-India Cold War with its most recent flashpoint via China’s proxy Pakistan. An angle I hadn’t considered until now but one that definitely makes sense seeing as China and India are competing powers, share a fraught history and share multiple territorial and historical grievances against each other and competing aims for the future.

China and India have had many of their own territorial disputes as well (e.g. Sikkim)

 

[CD Xbow]

Hopefully it holds, the water issue still remains and will drive conflict beyond any petty religious/historical thing in the very near future.


https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...ded-despite-ceasefire-sources-say-2025-05-10/
Pakistan denied involvement in the violence and had said it was preparing international legal action over the suspension of the treaty, which ensures water for 80% of its farms.
"Indus Waters Treaty was not really a part of (ceasefire) discussions," said a source from Pakistan's water ministry.
An Indian government source also told Reuters there was "no change in stand" on the treaty.

Yes, there are many issues that need to be addressed, but at least they are not shooting at each other. 'Water wars' have been predicted to become a feature of the 21C, perhaps this will be considered the first.

TWZ have an article about the conflict including the historic air battle. For combat aircraft the score was a victory for the PAF, 3 nil or less likely 5 nil.

Claims Swirl As India And Pakistan Assess Results Of Latest Conflict

Both sides are proclaiming the successes of their respective militaries as the dust settles on a brief but intense conflict. Both sides are proclaiming the successes of their respective militaries as the dust settles on a brief but intense conflict.

www.twz.com

Grim reapers reproduce the battle with their sim software. The PAF briefing starts at 2.29, the sim at about 11 minutes

 

[barreness]

Yes, there are many issues that need to be addressed, but at least they are not shooting at each other. 'Water wars' have been predicted to become a feature of the 21C, perhaps this will be considered the first.

TWZ have an article about the conflict including the historic air battle. For combat aircraft the score was a victory for the PAF, 3 nil or less likely 5 nil.

Claims Swirl As India And Pakistan Assess Results Of Latest Conflict

Both sides are proclaiming the successes of their respective militaries as the dust settles on a brief but intense conflict. Both sides are proclaiming the successes of their respective militaries as the dust settles on a brief but intense conflict.

www.twz.com

Grim reapers reproduce the battle with their sim software. The PAF briefing starts at 2.29, the sim at about 11 minutes

Yeh it's interesting, seems like a few Rafales were shot down, by Chinese air launched missiles.

The counter I've heard is that the Chinese AA failed to intercept Indian missiles in the first strike, and also in the airfield strike after both sides opened up. India running Russian s300/400, Pakistan running Chinese AA(mostly, there's a mix on both sides)

I'm not too sure tbh, but I'm coming around to India won this as far as posturing for future conflict

 

[CD Xbow]

Yeh it's interesting, seems like a few Rafales were shot down, by Chinese air launched missiles.

The counter I've heard is that the Chinese AA failed to intercept Indian missiles in the first strike, and also in the airfield strike after both sides opened up. India running Russian s300/400, Pakistan running Chinese AA(mostly, there's a mix on both sides)

I'm not too sure tbh, but I'm coming around to India won this as far as posturing for future conflict

It's hard to know how successful the Indian strikes were. If cratering a few runways was all they did then it wasn't very successful, though there are rumours they got an AWACs on the ground. It appears a number of PRC air defence systems were overcome but again we need more detail to evaluate each sides performance. PAF on the other hand bagged 3-5 IAF jets 100kms within India, that is a real achievement. I'm giving bragging rights to Pakistan on what little we know. Certainly a battle for the history books. Been to many of them in recent years.

 

[Total Power]

Wondering if India actually hit Pak's nuclear base? India denied it, but there's been reports and US declined to comment on this.