Is John Howard Australias worst PM ever ?

[Bombermania]

I would say no but that is because I consider Abbott, McMahon and Bruce as the worst.

Howard unlike Abbott at least did a few good things such as gun control and the GST however his performance post 2004 was a classic example of someone who stayed way past their used by date, he should have handed the job over to Costello sometime around 2004/2005.

Had he not joined the invasion of Iraq and introduced workchoices then I would think he would be ranked middle of the table of PM's.

 

[Bombermania]

Further edit: It surprises me that it is rarely, if ever, mentioned that Howard suffered from a significant speech defect. He seemed to make peculiar swallowing noises, usually in mid-sentence, for no apparent reason. It was quite disconcerting, to the extent that I found myself waiting for his next pause, followed by that noise. This made the effects his oratory even more impressive, though I'm not even sure if he was aware of it. Dunno whether anyone among his staff or colleagues was ever game to mention it to him either.

I thought that was connected to his moderate hearing loss.

He was eligible to wear a hearing aid but refused, yet he wore glasses but no one ever saw the irony in that.

He wasn't good at small talk, I remember he was out campaigning and he asked a women a question about the project she was working on and as she started answering he turned around and wandered off.

 

[medusala]

I love the way Howard is venerated by Murdoch in this country will Tony Blair is scorned for leading Britain into the same war that Howard led Australia into. A war that his organs enthusiastically supported at the time.

Come on Gough. Huge difference in the two. For starters Australia is far less insecure in the world and thus has far more incentive to follow the US. Secondly Blair and Campbell were involved in the dodgy dossier and all the BS that went with it. Their access to intelligence was far above Australia's.

Its all well and good to tell the Yanks to get stuffed but its hardly in Australias interests to get frozen out the way the Kiwis did. Things like Iraq are the price we pay. Bob Hawke knew that as did Beazley.

I dont think anyone venerates Howard. I think subsequent govts have just made him look good.

He also had some talent in his ministry. How many current ministers would get a gig in his cabinet?

 

[Bomberboyokay]

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Great being an Aussie PM, isn't it?

The blood of 41 of your countrymen is on your hands, likewise that of countless innocent Iraqi and Afghan men, women and children, and you're not even obliged to give an account of yourself when your two decade war is deemed an abject, humiliating failure.

 

[HardcoreGeelongFan]

Pissed away everything Hawke/Keating built and sold all the public assets 20 years ago when they weren't even worth a 1/5th of what they are today. Worst gold sense I've ever seen in my life. Worst investor in general

 

[Hawk Dork]

Pissed away everything Hawke/Keating built and sold all the public assets 20 years ago when they weren't even worth a 1/5th of what they are today. Worst gold sense I've ever seen in my life. Worst investor in general

Lets not mention selling the gold reserves for pittance without a tender

 

[Power Raid]

Pissed away everything Hawke/Keating built and sold all the public assets 20 years ago when they weren't even worth a 1/5th of what they are today. Worst gold sense I've ever seen in my life. Worst investor in general

selling telstra was the right decision

the wrong decision was to keep telstra wholesale and retail together. the opportunity to fix this is when telstra buys the NBN, a condition should be added that the retail arm of telstra is separated. I would also cut up the wholesale side, into three or four for competition.

23 years later telstra is 5% higher not 500% higher. I can't think of an 5 bagger privatised by howard. Can you help with this?



It should be noted CBA was under Hawke/ Keating (Keating being our best ever poli IMO) at $5.40 vs ~$74 today (that's a 15 bagger) but this was still a good decision. Same said for Qantas which if I recall correctly was a $1 IPO.



what people who are anti-privatisation don't appreciate is the government retains a >10% interest on the net of EBITDAandWAGES, a 30% interest on net profits. Selling something and retaining a risk free 40% priority return over creditors and shareholders is pretty good. Further by privatising the government has greater control over business and the economy.

 

[Bombermania]

selling telstra was the right decision

the wrong decision was to keep telstra wholesale and retail together. the opportunity to fix this is when telstra buys the NBN, a condition should be added that the retail arm of telstra is separated. I would also cut up the wholesale side, into three or four for competition.

23 years later telstra is 5% higher not 500% higher. I can't think of an 5 bagger privatised by howard. Can you help with this?



It should be noted CBA was under Hawke/ Keating (Keating being our best ever poli IMO) at $5.40 vs ~$74 today (that's a 15 bagger) but this was still a good decision. Same said for Qantas which if I recall correctly was a $1 IPO.



what people who are anti-privatisation don't appreciate is the government retains a >10% interest on the net of EBITDAandWAGES, a 30% interest on net profits. Selling something and retaining a risk free 40% priority return over creditors and shareholders is pretty good. Further by privatising the government has greater control over business and the economy.

I know Telstra wants the NBN but I don't see it happening because I can see the NBN.co being listed on the ASX as a separate entity.

Telstra had their chance to run the NBN but choose not to.

 

[Power Raid]

I know Telstra wants the NBN but I don't see it happening because I can see the NBN.co being listed on the ASX as a separate entity.

Telstra had their chance to run the NBN but choose not to.

I probably agree

NBN to take out telstra's infrastructure and then list

 

[Firestorm13]

I would say no but that is because I consider Abbott, McMahon and Bruce as the worst.

Howard unlike Abbott at least did a few good things such as gun control and the GST however his performance post 2004 was a classic example of someone who stayed way past their used by date, he should have handed the job over to Costello sometime around 2004/2005.

Had he not joined the invasion of Iraq and introduced workchoices then I would think he would be ranked middle of the table of PM's.

You do realise old Howard’s work choices is pretty much what we still have today! All Gillard did was re writing them was change the name, Reno state the old agreements and let them run out & Howard’s work choices kick in

 

[Nathan32]

Pissed away everything Hawke/Keating built and sold all the public assets 20 years ago when they weren't even worth a 1/5th of what they are today. Worst gold sense I've ever seen in my life. Worst investor in general

Hawk and Keating left the budget in massive debt. Howard paid the debt off, put the budget in surplus and left billions in the bank.

Howard instilled a strong sense of healthy national pride, strengthened the middle class, cut red tape, introduced the GST, weakened backwards trade unions, put Christianity back into schools, implemented gun reforms, successfully reformed the IR system and introduced work for the dole.

Howard one over the middle class and they are still with the coalition.

 

[Sainteric]

You do realise old Howard’s work choices is pretty much what we still have today! All Gillard did was re writing them was change the name, Reno state the old agreements and let them run out & Howard’s work choices kick in

That is total rubbish, we have the left over Krudd Gillard system ATM.

 

[Sainteric]

I know Telstra wants the NBN but I don't see it happening because I can see the NBN.co being listed on the ASX as a separate entity.

Telstra had their chance to run the NBN but choose not to.

For the NBN to list they would have to write off 60/70% of its value because of the way it's set up both parties would have egg on their face if that happened.

 

[Northalives]

Howard took us into an illegal war. He completely disregarded the conventions and protocols that Australia was at the forefront of bringing into being in order to stop countries invading Sovereign States "just because".

He is a war criminal.

 

[JackOutback]

Howard instilled a strong sense of healthy national pride

There was nothing healthy about his racist, nationalist bullchitte.

 

[Power Raid]

For the NBN to list they would have to write off 60/70% of its value because of the way it's set up both parties would have egg on their face if that happened.

the write offs will have to happen any way

that's when we will start to see the full cost

 

[AM]

the write offs will have to happen any way

that's when we will start to see the full cost

Surely no one in there right mind would buy shares in the train wreck.

 

[Doss]

A terrible prime minister. Not the absolute worst, but gun laws aside I find precious little to like about anything he did.

 

[Nathan32]

There was nothing healthy about his racist, nationalist bullchitte.

National pride is something that binds us all together and leads to a free socially cohesive society.

It doesn't matter if your black or white, rich or poor, male or female, left or right etc were all proud Australians.

 

[Nathan32]

Howard took us into an illegal war. He completely disregarded the conventions and protocols that Australia was at the forefront of bringing into being in order to stop countries invading Sovereign States "just because".

He is a war criminal.

Were not having some unelected bureaucratic body in the UN dictate our national security policies.

 

[Nathan32]

A terrible prime minister. Not the absolute worst, but gun laws aside I find precious little to like about anything he did.

The fact he was able to win 4 elections in a row suggests your in the minority.

Balanced budget, cash in the bank, low unemployment, secure borders, GST, work for the dole, IR reform, tax cuts.

 

[JackOutback]

National pride is something that binds us all together and leads to a free socially cohesive society.

It doesn't matter if your black or white, rich or poor, male or female, left or right etc were all proud Australians.

No, it’s the conviction that your country is superior to all others because you were born in it. It’s for simple minded fools that can’t imagine a better society.

 

[Doss]

National pride is something that binds us all together and leads to a free socially cohesive society.

It doesn't matter if your black or white, rich or poor, male or female, left or right etc were all proud Australians.

This is nothing more than meaningless word salad, with little application in the real world. And by real world I mean the real Australia of today.

 

[Nathan32]

No, it’s the conviction that your country is superior to all others because you were born in it. It’s for simple minded fools that can’t imagine a better society.

Mate that's just nonsense that you probably heard from an arts professor.

Just because you love your family does not mean you feel superior to other families or seek to harm them.

To have a great society you need social cohesion and national pride is a key part.