Is not drafting Franklin...

[tigerT]

Phil theres nothing wrong with tambling and deledio, both are going to be very very good players. Tambling has played his 2 best games of his career to date this season, Deledio is the first player tagged in our side. The recruiters didnt "stuff up" anymore than hawthorn and the bulldogs.


One thing Ive been saying on these boards the past few days is, the same ppl bagging our recruiting after the 160 point belting, were praising it for pushing both last seasons grand finalists all the way and being competitive in the previous 5 games..

 

[True Thylacine]

This debate is such crap and such a non-event. Franklin is showing more signs than most right now so big deal. Just goes to show that you cant predict who will come on at what rate and to what extent. People keep rabbiting on about how we took Tambling ahead of him and what idiots we are....remember....Hawthorn took Roughhead ahead of Franklin so it was more good luck than good management from them as well. The draft is at worst a bloody raffle, at best a calculated risk, get over it!

 

[emperor]

^^TT right on the money. I find it funny that Hawk fans think they are so brilliant for drafting Franklin, but they overlooked him with their first selection

Who knows how Franklin would have come along if he was playing for Richmond? For all we know he could have turned out a lot different. The real answer is we don't know, so why lose sleep over the if's but's and maybe's. It's not the monumental blunder some of you make it out to be.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

I am not sure why I am getting cained over this and am not trolling. The main point here is that after you got flogged on the weekend there was a million and 1 threads on here asking for Terry's head and for most players to be dropped. Yes Terry has made some huge mistakes but there wasn't one thread about the possibility of the recruiters getting it wrong - or maybe there was and I just missed it.

Isnt it true that Terry is only as good as his players and his players are only as good as their skills allow them to be? All this time everyone is saying how cr*p Ray Hall, Schulz, Krakouer etc are but they were recruited under the advice from the recruitment staff.

And Waever, I am not comparing Hawthorn's list to Richmonds. Its a useless cause. All I am trying to figure out is where does the buck stop at Richmond to stop a repeat from last week happening.

 

[lids2004roar]

To stop a week like last week happening we need to build unity in the team. Respect is there to be won by teammates this weekend.

Phil, our problems did not occur in the last 3 drafts. They happened between 1996-1999 (Ray Hall and Tivendale only players) and 01-03. 2000 we most likely did better than any other club. In 2001/02 with Danny Frawley the only young player we picked up was Jay Schulz, who is kicking 2-3 goals a game and looking like a quality player. With some late picks in 2003 we snared Tuck, Raines, Jackson and Hartigan which was smart use of later picks but we traded away earlier ones for Browny.

You are implying our recent drafting is a problem. It is shaping to be a very successful period of recruitment imo. Here's a rough rundown:

2004: Deledio, Tambling, Meyer, Patto, Polo, McGuane, Troy Simmonds.
2005: JON, Hughes, Casserly, White, Foley (elevated), Thursfield (elevated), Pat Bowden.
2006: Riewoldt, Edwards, Connors, Peterson, Collins, Polak.

I'm sure you may have seen Jack Riewoldt dominate against Box Hill 2 weeks ago? Dawson did a terrible job on him, Dowler did nothing, Muston nothing etc while Polo is BOG, Meyer near BOG etc.

We can't blame Greg Miller because we are yet to see his choices develop. How can we judge him? Brad Ottens (pick 2) was a superstar after 3 years and Travis Johnstone (pick 1) was nothing. Now who would you rather and who made the right choice?

 

[Captain_Brown_7]

Greg Miller wasn't the one who wanted Riewoldt.

From most reports GM wanted James Sellar, but FJ strongly wanted Riewoldt. Maybe Terry made the final decision, but basically GM wanted Sellar and FJ said "no" and wanted Riewoldt partly for character as well I assume.

You'll have to excuse my tiredness......but who is FJ???

 

[tigerT]

Francis Jackson our new head of recruiting

 

[Dixie Flatline]

The recruiters of the past have been replaced. Francis Jackson has been there 18 months. Miller has had 4-5 drafts depending on who you believe.

Holding Francis Jackson accountable for a decision made while he was at the Kangaroos is bizzare.

You want to play this game? Since 1998 the first player drafted by the Hawks in each draft have been ...

1995 - Brendan Krummel - serviceable player, never the same after Pickett bumped him into the next century
1996 - Craig Treleven - yeah, not a great pick in hindsight
1997 - Trent Croad - All-Australian 2005, led the goalkicking at Freo when he was over there. Bleeds brown & gold.
1998 - Michael Collica - again, not a great pick in hindsight
1999 - Luke McPharlin - mummy's boy, but has shown at Freo that he has talent. Wasn't our choice that he went back to Perth.
2000 - Nick Ries - gutsy inside mid who has his limitations. Probably would still be on the list but for the emergence of the likes of Mitchell and Lewis.
2001 - Luke Hodge - do I need to say anything.
2002 - Luke Brennan - another mistake, but a shallow draft. Should have taken McIntosh, and we overestimated Luke's development as a footballer. Probably will be cut by the Swans at the end of this year.
2003 - Harry Miller - disingenuous. Pick 25 in the draft overall after we traded pick 10 to Freo to get Croad back to the club. Let's not forget that in the same draft Richmond took Tom Roach father/son. Ouch.
2004 - Jarryd Roughead - jury is still out.
2005 - Xavier Ellis - jury is still out. Played just 4 games of AFL footy.
2006 - Mitch Thorp - has been injured so far this season.

By my count that is 1 player in your team this weekend from your first 12 picks over more than a decade. And Croad you have to trade for to get back and Hodge came at the expense of Judd.

You want to talk acountability start at Glenferrie.

I've read the highlighted bit several times and it still doesn't make sense. Those that played against Essendon were: Croad, Hodge and Roughead as our first picks from the drafts. Ellis was dropped to make way for Vandenberg.

 

[lids2004roar]

I've read the highlighted bit several times and it still doesn't make sense. Those that played against Essendon were: Croad, Hodge and Roughead as our first picks from the drafts. Ellis was dropped to make way for Vandenberg.

He meant you traded Croad and then needed to pay more to get him back, and that Hodge was at the expense of Judd.

That leaves Roughead.

Or that's how I read it.

 

[dipper86]

I'm sure you may have seen Jack Riewoldt dominate against Box Hill 2 weeks ago? Dawson did a terrible job on him, Dowler did nothing, Muston nothing etc while Polo is BOG, Meyer near BOG etc.

Ease up.

Box Hill Hawks had Thorpe Ellis out (2 of our top 6 picks from 2005 and 2006 ) Bailey Muston and Murphy (3 players in the top 22 in the 2004 and 2005 drafts) Travis Tuck F/S plus 2 rookies in Collins and Suckling.

 

[lids2004roar]

Ease up.

Box Hill Hawks had Thorpe Ellis out (2 of our top 6 picks from 2005 and 2006 ) Bailey Muston and Murphy (3 players in the top 22 in the 2004 and 2005 drafts) Travis Tuck F/S plus 2 rookies in Collins and Suckling.

Point was, you should know we haven't made many mistakes in the last couple of years! We shouldn't have to question recent recruiting.

 

[krustyman]

Ease up.

Box Hill Hawks had Thorpe Ellis out (2 of our top 6 picks from 2005 and 2006 ) Bailey Muston and Murphy (3 players in the top 22 in the 2004 and 2005 drafts) Travis Tuck F/S plus 2 rookies in Collins and Suckling.

hawks may be in big troubble if they get a series of injuries.

 

[dipper86]

hawks may be in big troubble if they get a series of injuries.

Thank you captain obvious, Most teams will be introuble when they get a series of injuries.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Thank you captain obvious, Most teams will be introuble when they get a series of injuries.

LOL @ Hawks will be in serious trouble if they get a few injuries. Especially after losing by over 150 with pretty close to a full list.

 

[lids2004roar]

LOL @ Hawks will be in serious trouble if they get a few injuries. Especially after losing by over 150 with pretty close to a full list.

Full list? We had injured Troy Simmonds, Nathan Brown, Mark Coughlan, Kane Johsnon playing broken hand, Jay Schulz, Richard Tambling, Kingsley, Hall (backup ruck), Knobel (backup ruck), ETC!

Take out Hawthorn's star ruckman (oh... hang on...), their superstar forward (Franklin still not close to Brown yet), their best midfielder (say Hodge), injure their 2nd best midfielder (say Crawford), Take out their best young tall KPP (say Roughead/Boyle?), their best young midfielder (say Lewis), their best 3rd forward (say Williams), ALL backup ruckmen (forcing their KPPs to play ruck) and then we'll talk.

Otherwise, yeah. No injuries

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Full list? We had injured Troy Simmonds, Nathan Brown, Mark Coughlan, Kane Johsnon playing broken hand, Jay Schulz, Richard Tambling, Kingsley, Hall (backup ruck), Knobel (backup ruck), ETC!

Take out Hawthorn's star ruckman (oh... hang on...), their superstar forward (Franklin still not close to Brown yet), their best midfielder (say Hodge), injure their 2nd best midfielder (say Crawford), Take out their best young tall KPP (say Roughead/Boyle?), their best young midfielder (say Lewis), their best 3rd forward (say Williams), ALL backup ruckmen (forcing their KPPs to play ruck) and then we'll talk.

Otherwise, yeah. No injuries

Yes and with those players in you may have broken the 100 point barrier

 

[tigerT]

Yes and with those players in you may have broken the 100 point barrier

NO Im not trolling...

fool

 

[lids2004roar]

Yes and with those players in you may have broken the 100 point barrier

Take out Hodge, Franklin, Crawford, Lewis, Williams, Boyle/Roughead AND all of your ruckmen and we'll see if you are still winning many games

 

[Frankston Rover]

Maybe you shouldn't recruit injured plagued players then.

Or 30yo hacks.

And you are massively over rating Brown. When was the last time he kicked 9goals in a game?

 

[dipper86]

Full list? We had injured Troy Simmonds, Nathan Brown, Mark Coughlan, Kane Johsnon playing broken hand, Jay Schulz, Richard Tambling, Kingsley, Hall (backup ruck), Knobel (backup ruck), ETC!

Take out Hawthorn's star ruckman (oh... hang on...), their superstar forward (Franklin still not close to Brown yet), their best midfielder (say Hodge), injure their 2nd best midfielder (say Crawford), Take out their best young tall KPP (say Roughead/Boyle?), their best young midfielder (say Lewis), their best 3rd forward (say Williams), ALL backup ruckmen (forcing their KPPs to play ruck) and then we'll talk.

Otherwise, yeah. No injuries

Stop being a b*tch, every club has injuries, and we have already had quite a few already through the season and mainly to our senior guys, Croad and Jacobs have been in and out of the side, M Williams which is the equiverlant of Nathan Brown for us, Richard Vandenberg our captain, Chance Bateman Tim Clarke, Joel Smith, Our second ruckman in Bailey also injured, Not to mention other players that are also playing injured but not being bought up as an excuse because we are winning matches, like Robert Campbell ( number 1 Ruckman) who is hobbling around on one leg etc.

 

[lids2004roar]

Maybe you shouldn't recruit injured plagued players then.

Or 30yo hacks.

And you are massively over rating Brown. When was the last time he kicked 9goals in a game?

You guys are the ones drafting players with major injury concerns

And Nathan Brown was about the best player in the comp at one stage, it is a joke to mention him in the same breath as Buddy.

 

[dipper86]

Stop being a b*tch benny, every club has injuries, and we have already had quite a few already through the season and mainly to our senior guys, Croad and Jacobs have been in and out of the side, M Williams which is the equiverlant of Nathan Brown for us, Richard Vandenberg our captain, Chance Bateman Tim Clarke, Joel Smith, Our second ruckman in Bailey also injured, Not to mention other players that are also playing injured but not being bought up as an excuse because we are winning matches, like Robert Campbell ( number 1 Ruckman) who is hobbling around on one leg etc.

 

[lids2004roar]

Dipper, was it not you who said "most teams would be in trouble if they get a series of injuries"?

We've got a series of key injuries right now, we're not the only club but we don't have the depth to cover them. Especially considering all of our injuries are to older/prime-aged players who we don't have many of to start with.

Hence the kids must take their spots.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

You guys are the ones drafting players with major injury concerns

And Nathan Brown was about the best player in the comp at one stage, it is a joke to mention him in the same breath as Buddy.

LOL Benny. You have really outdone yourself havent you? Nathan Brown v Lance Franklin. Now it doesnt take a Rhode Scholar to figure that one out. You are obsessed with Tambling being better than Franklin and your threads prove that your insecure about it. Sad really because most of the Tiger supporters on here couldnt give a rats on who is better.

FWIW, not drafting Franklin (as the title of the thread states) is the least of your worries. Saying you have injuries to key players is all good and well but every team has them. Melbourne have been crippled and they were more competitive than the Tiges on the weekend.

There is always an excuse though so keep up the good work. After all, you have Tambling and everything will be fine

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Dipper, was it not you who said "most teams would be in trouble if they get a series of injuries"?

We've got a series of key injuries right now, we're not the only club but we don't have the depth to cover them. Especially considering all of our injuries are to older/prime-aged players who we don't have many of to start with.

Hence the kids must take their spots.

Hawks have the youngest list in the AFL Benny. And we have had some injuries to key players as well and yes the kids have had to take their spots. So I guess we could make an excuse for being 0-6 but instead our "kids" got us to 4-2. Pretty simple really.