Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Chief]

Continued in Part IV

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack IV - UN Report: Israel is an Apartheid state. Probable Case of Genocide

Continued from Part III https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack-iii.1381570/ Original Post, October 7, 2023: Israel declares state of war In response to the attacks, which appear to have caught the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) by surprise, Israel has...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Saint]

No you can't unwind history. That's the point.

When is it history and when is it still part of the present? Are 1770 and 1948 still part of the present - what about Xis various periods where Han Chinese had control of the land. Putin's Soviet Union dreams? Smotrich's mythical BCE period? And when we're doing the Americas - do we choose the pre-Columbus datre or go back further and decide which of the indigenous Nations are the rightful owners.

The whole world is a product of invasion and colonisation and our ancestry is spread out across the entire planet.

Do we ethnically cleanse Palestine back to 1947? Australia back to 1769? America to whatever date? China to the various dates where the Han Chinese controlled a region. Some period of the Soviet Union for Putin. Some mythical BCE period for Smotrich and friends? And when we're doing it - what do we do with all the people whose ancestry is mixed - as in all of us.

That's why it's a war crime to colonise occupied territory. Because it's essentially creating human shields for illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing. Those who commit war crimes should be punished.

If Israeli terrorists push Palestinians out of their homes, do we just shrug our shoulders because now they're in the homes? No, they should be kicked out.

 

[Saint]

Israel shouldn't have kicked Hamas out of those Kibbutz houses, they were just living there now, they'd killed all the occupants. Is that how it works?

 

[Number37]

I don't understand why you're being so unreasonable about this.

You could easily just say that you misspoke or whatever. Instead you're trying to turn it around on me and attribute aspects to me that I don't hold.

You said this.

And I corrected you on it.
You are now seemingly agreeing with me on that point, but instead of agreeing, you're trying to dismiss it and paint me as a Zionist with arguments I haven't made and that I don't support.




I've provided information, stats and evidence for my positions. You're just ignoring it and trying to imply that Jews didn't have a large population in the Middle East region prior to the 'existence' of Israel.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Did anything happen prior to 1948 that could have impacted the total number of Jews living in Europe???????


https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zb48dp3#zqjsf82
encyclopedia.ushmm.org

In 1933, approximately 9.5 million Jews lived in Europe, comprising 1.7% of the total European population. This number represented more than 60 percent of the world's Jewish population at that time, estimated at 15.3 million.​

​

View attachment 2357868




Again, I don't understand why you're being so unreasonable about this. You're normally very logical and engaging.

None of that addresses the accusations that YOU tried to make, nor does it address what I wrote in response.

Again, the substance of the skin cancer claim ISN'T that they have the 'highest rate of skin cancer in the world", the substance of the claim IS that the rates of skin cancer of non_Arab Israelis is off the charts higher than the skin cancer rates of Arab Israelis.
Basic logic should tell you.... that by itself, that doesn't prove anything other than the difference in rates of skin cancer.

It is indisputable that Israel has an abnormally high incidence of skin cancer.
That they are no longer top of the charts, doesn't in any way alter the FACT that there is a substantial difference in the rates of skin cancer of the different cohorts of the Israeli population.

The rest of your post isn't really worthy of a response because it just repeats the same nonsense that we have been hearing for decades.
Prior to the Balfour Declaration the proportion of Jews living in Palestine was <5% and had been that way for centuries.
Basic logic should tell you that the proportion of Jews living in Palestine was 5%, therefore the proportion of Jews living not in Palestine was 95%.
Jews themselves will tell you that they have been persecuted in Europe for a long time and that they never had a homeland.
ie They didn't have anywhere else to go, so they roamed around Europe.
I read somewhere that Jews had been kicked out of 109 countries in Europe over the hundreds years.
In all of those hundreds of years, they never went to Palestine in large numbers, until the BD.

1/ 95% of Jews didn't live in Palestine
2/ Their own history tells you that they were persecuted in EUROPE.
3/ The Jews in Central/Eastern Europe are Ashkenazi
4/ The non_Aashkenazi claim is unsubstantiated. (Bibi himself is a descendant of Eastern European Jews but claims he is a blood relative of Sephardic jew.)
5/ Sephardic Jews are Jews who were expelled from Spain. Last I checked Spain is in Europe.

 

[Number37]

No you can't unwind history. That's the point.

When is it history and when is it still part of the present? Are 1770 and 1948 still part of the present - what about Xis various periods where Han Chinese had control of the land. Putin's Soviet Union dreams? Smotrich's mythical BCE period? And when we're doing the Americas - do we choose the pre-Columbus datre or go back further and decide which of the indigenous Nations are the rightful owners.

The whole world is a product of invasion and colonisation and our ancestry is spread out across the entire planet.

Do we ethnically cleanse Palestine back to 1947? Australia back to 1769? America to whatever date? China to the various dates where the Han Chinese controlled a region. Some period of the Soviet Union for Putin. Some mythical BCE period for Smotrich and friends? And when we're doing it - what do we do with all the people whose ancestry is mixed - as in all of us.

Regardless of what else happened, when did the Palestinians lose connection to their land?

 

[Roylion]

The Judeans' DNA has never been sequenced simply because there are no Judeans around.

That's not quite correct. In 2023 at Kiryat Ye'arim, west of Jerusalem, DNA was recovered from two individuals - one male and one female - of ancient Judeans living in the First Temple period.

Instead, the DNA boffins have used Palestinian & other Middle Eastern DNA as a proxy for Judean DNA.

A 2010 genetic study led by Dr. Gil Atzmon found that European Jews were most closely related to Middle-Eastern Jews, Palestinians, Druze and and non-Jewish Southern Europeans. In 2013 genetic studies showed that 50-80 percent of Ashkenazi Y chromosome DNA could be traced to the Near East. A 2017 study found an approximately even mixture of Middle Eastern (40%) and European ancestry (60%), This particular study concluded that the Levant was the most likely source of Middle Eastern ancestry in Ashkenazi Jews, and of the 60% European ancestry between 60% and 80% of that was Southern European, with the rest being likely Eastern European.

A 2022 study by Kevin Brook focused on the Mt-DNA of Ashkenazi Jews and used thousands of complete sequences. Brook's study concluded that Ashkenazi Jews have significant roots in both Europe and the Middle East.

A 2025 study by Joseph Livni and Karl Skorecki in a study of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) combined with existing Y-chromosome evidence concluded that there was a Near Eastern origin for Ashkenazi paternal lineages and that both maternal and paternal lineages in the Ashkenazi population likely share a Near Eastern origin.

 

[Number37]

They found 2 Judeans that just happened to be lying around in the 2020's?
How the F did they know they are Judeans?
They didn't. It is an assumption.
Start with the conclusion and make everything fit.
Textbook revisionist history.


They dug up a 10th century Jewish cemetery in Germany in 2022.
DNA analysis showed a linkage to Druze DNA.
Druze are indigenous to the Levant.
Druze are not Jewish.

There is a lot of literature that says European Jews (Ashkenazis) descend from converts to Judaism and therefore are not descendants of Judean Jews.