Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[Mobbs]

I think saying the words:

Israel also killed Israeli children and civilians on that day. With tanks and choppers. We dont know the split of how many each side killed.

shows that Ghost Patrol accepts Hamas killed civilians.

To make it easy to notice I've bolded the bits above where its obvious GP accepts Hamas also killed kids and civilians.

If Israel also killed kids/civilians then someone else (ie Hamas) obviously did otherwise GP wouldn't have used the word also yeah?

Referring to each side killing people kind of implies that GP has accepted Hamas killed people given that each side in this conflict is Hamas and Israel ... yeah? Its not like this is a three sided conflict between Israel, Iceland and Sri Lanka.

I reckon the only reason you missed this is cos you've been programmed to by years of pro Israeli commentary and anti terror bullshit in western media. Cos to me it was obvious GP is talking about both sides (ie the IDF and Hamas) killing Israeli kids and civilians.

Its kind of understandable given how hard this narrative is being pushed: any criticism of what Israel is doing = you are a member of Hamas or want to be.

But its not really fair on that poster.

Reading it as Israel didn't only kill Hamas. They also killed children and civilians on that day. Hence the question.

Btw your use of an argument from incredulity part is a bit "unfair to this poster". That's nicest way to put it. But for every other part of your response, thank you. Will accept that.

And GP liked your post which is very appreciated also, GP as that does, actually both clarify (answer) AND repeat your condemnation of hamas (if hamas were responsible).

 

[PieLebo87]

“Ermagooood how dare you call Hamas freedom fighters? They’re terrorists!”

Whilst this is going -





People that think they’re fighting the good fight around words and semantics etc. need to take a good hard look at themselves.

I can’t even post all the shit I’m seeing of dead babies and children.

Enough is enough. Stop the killing and let them live already.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If they commit terror attacks like that on the music festival, and killing children, they forfeit the right to exist as an organisation. The world doesn't have to tolerate that.

Children are killed all the time in conflicts. Israel just killed thousands of them. Why does the world have to tolerate that?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I know. This situation is like an open wound that won't heal in humanities psyche. Its a bit heart breaking to be honest.

That's a little melodramatic. Why should this conflict be any more damaging to humanity's psyche than others?

An ethnic cleansing just happened in Nagorno-Karabakh. A ongoing genocide is happening to the Rohingya. Women and children are being murdered by the thousand in Sudan. The Kurds remain without their own state and mistreated by surrounding peoples. Does any of that constitute an open wound in humanity's psyche? Absolutely not. The western media happily ignores all of that because none of it involves America's golden child, Israel.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

That's a little melodramatic. Why should this conflict be any more damaging to humanity's psyche than others?

An ethnic cleansing just happened in Nagorno-Karabakh. A ongoing genocide is happening to the Rohingya. Women and children are being murdered by the thousand in Sudan. The Kurds remain without their own state and mistreated by surrounding peoples. Does any of that constitute an open wound in humanity's psyche? Absolutely not. The western media happily ignores all of that because none of it involves America's golden child, Israel.

I'd suggest there's a lot more unedited footage coming out of Gaza. Inversely, there's a lot more propaganda coming out of Israel.

Compared to the other conflicts you mention. As such, it's reasonable to assume it's more damaging to psyche.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I'd suggest there's a lot more unedited footage coming out of Gaza. Inversely, there's a lot more propaganda coming out of Israel.

Compared to the other conflicts you mention. As such, it's reasonable to assume it's more damaging to psyche.

What if there was plenty of footage coming out of all those places but Western media just didn't give a sh*t about it?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

What if there was plenty of footage coming out of all those places but Western media just didn't give a sh*t about it?

Does Australia supply weapons, unequivocal support and tax dollars to a particular side in those other conflicts?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

^ Do those other countries provide expenses paid junkets to lobby a large cohort of our MSM?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Does Australia supply weapons, unequivocal support and tax dollars to a particular side in those other conflicts?

I don't know. Do they?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

^ Do those other countries provide expenses paid junkets to lobby a large cohort of our MSM?

Yes, that's part of the point I'm making. Western media values some conflicts over others depending on who's involved. Not all life is valued equally, and while that's most stark in how they treat Jewish life vs Arab life in Palestine, it's also in how none of the other conflicts even rate a mention. Bribery offered to the media is part of that, and so is the US' never-ending devotion to Israel for political and religious reasons.

 

[ferball]

That's a little melodramatic. Why should this conflict be any more damaging to humanity's psyche than others?

An ethnic cleansing just happened in Nagorno-Karabakh. A ongoing genocide is happening to the Rohingya. Women and children are being murdered by the thousand in Sudan. The Kurds remain without their own state and mistreated by surrounding peoples. Does any of that constitute an open wound in humanity's psyche? Absolutely not. The western media happily ignores all of that because none of it involves America's golden child, Israel.

Because the three most influential religions of the last 1000 years have been slaughtering each other in that exact spot for the last 1000 years.

 

[ferball]

I'd suggest there's a lot more unedited footage coming out of Gaza. Inversely, there's a lot more propaganda coming out of Israel.

Compared to the other conflicts you mention. As such, it's reasonable to assume it's more damaging to psyche.

So much division over such a small part of the world... its crazy.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Because the three most influential religions of the last 1000 years have been slaughtering each other in that exact spot for the last 1000 years.

Half of humanity doesn't follow any of those religions. Also I've never read of Ottoman rule in Palestine involving large slaughter between religions.

 

[ferball]

The issue in Australia is there are still far too many people (I don’t mean Saint) who have this concept that this all started in October 7th by Hamas.

Where is the outcry for the 2,781 Palestinians injured in 2020? Or the 15,000 in 2019? Or the 31,000 in 2019?

This has been going on for a long time, not just when Hamas attacked on October 7th 2023.

UN figures of below screenshot


View attachment 1858826

I know, this war has been ongoing for decades and for most of this century in this particular form. That's why October 7 was a war crime not a terrorist act imo. Its an ongoing war. Israel might have declared war on hamas but they haven't stopped waging war there for decades.

Calling Hamas terrorists and that incident terrorism deny legitimacy to Hamas fighting and gives all the legitimacy to Israel's ongoing ethnic cleansing. I dunno about their leadership but ordinary fighters in Hamas would have joined cos its better to die fighting than sitting at home waiting for an Israeli strike or knock on the door.

 

[madmug]

Interesting to see the vision of the 'bunkers' under the hospital which the IDF claim were an Armory & control centre. A few AK47s is all we saw.
Also, Ehud Barak, past Israeli PM said today/yesterday that the 'bunkers' under the hospital were actually built by Israel. They built them so as to be able to fit the hospital on the small area it was given in Gaza.
All along the IDF made it sound like Hamas had built them!

 

[Mobbs]

So this is from an Israeli news website, talking about a prisoner exchange. I have no idea if they are on the level or not. Saw it on TG and chased a rabbit hole of links until ending up there - seems quite recent, last few hours maybe?):

הערב: חמאס יעביר רשימה של 10 חטופים שישוחררו מחר

בשעות הערב צפוי חמאס להעביר רשימה של 10 חטופים ראשונים שישוחררו מחר

www.inn.co.il

Tonight: Hamas will deliver a list of 10 abductees who will be released tomorrow
In the evening, Hamas is expected to deliver a list of the first 10 abductees who will be released tomorrow.

In the evening, Hamas will deliver a list of ten abductees who will be the first to be released from captivity as part of the agreement on the release of the abductees approved by the government.

The ten abductees will be handed over to Israel tomorrow morning (Thursday) through the Red Cross. Later terrorists will be released.

Between the hours of 6:30 and 7:00 in the morning the IDF will stop the fire, according to operational considerations. On the fourth day of the ceasefire, Hamas is expected to release 20 more hostages.

This morning the Ministry of Justice published a list containing the names of 300 prisoners "intended for release" as part of the kidnapping deal.

It's hard to copy paste from the article as it's originally Hebrew and Chrome's translator struggles with the formatting. There's more on the article, mostly the newspaper complaining about the personalities of the prisoners being released etc etc no great surprise there.

 

[ferball]

Half of humanity doesn't follow any of those religions. Also I've never read of Ottoman rule in Palestine involving large slaughter between religions.

Because they were powerfuil enough to control everything and as a result non Muslims were second class citizens. And the slave trade in that part of the world was huge. If Israel had the same power and control of the area the Ottomans did they'd be doing the same thing, they'd probably even reinstate slavery.

Nearly half of humanity does follow these religions. If you have a major wound that covers or even just infects half your body odds are you're dead. Maybe with the best of modern medical treatment you might survive. If you have a major wound in your psyche or soul that is the equivalent size and you let it fester your life will be shithouse and you'll end up dead before your time.

 

[ferball]

Reading it as Israel didn't only kill Hamas. They also killed children and civilians on that day. Hence the question.

Btw your use of an argument from incredulity part is a bit "unfair to this poster". That's nicest way to put it. But for every other part of your response, thank you. Will accept that.

And GP liked your post which is very appreciated also, GP as that does, actually both clarify (answer) AND repeat your condemnation of hamas (if hamas were responsible).

Like i've said, what i consider Hamas did was a war crime. People who commit war crimes should be punished for it up the chain of command as far as is possible to convict them.

IMO Hamas didn't intend to attack the rave and probably not the kibbutzes either. I don't think they expected to get past the first layer of Israeli defenses. Doesn't justify killing civilians once they did get past that layer of defense but I don't think they intended or expected to go that far.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Like i've said, what i consider Hamas did was a war crime. People who commit war crimes should be punished for it up the chain of command as far as is possible to convict them.

IMO Hamas didn't intend to attack the rave and probably not the kibbutzes either. I don't think they expected to get past the first layer of Israeli defenses. Doesn't justify killing civilians once they did get past that layer of defense but I don't think they intended or expected to go that far.

Oh they intended it all right. Had it planned for a long time. And if they get the opportunity they will do it “again and again and again”.

What do you think they intended?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You’re not getting anywhere with this.

Hamas don’t exclusively kill innocent civilians, they fight an occupation. You figure out what that is and define it however way you choose to.

Even then, they’re also terrorists for what they did on October 7th.

They are neither exclusively terrorists or exclusively freedom fighters is my point.

It’s not that hard to comprehend.

Their motivations are political (anti-occupation, call it freedom fighter if you want but I'm not sure how much "freedom" they are fighting for but I get what you're saying) their tactics are terror.

 

[Roby]

So Israel has agreed not to commit Genocide for 6 hours a day, for four days, for some of the hostages realased. Then normal genoicde of Palestinians will commence after.

 

[Mobbs]

Like i've said, what i consider Hamas did was a war crime. People who commit war crimes should be punished for it up the chain of command as far as is possible to convict them.

IMO Hamas didn't intend to attack the rave and probably not the kibbutzes either. I don't think they expected to get past the first layer of Israeli defenses. Doesn't justify killing civilians once they did get past that layer of defense but I don't think they intended or expected to go that far.

I've not doubted you. And I agree IMO Israel are by far the greater wrongdoer, as I've always said since their response was announced (of course not intending to discount the hamas attack which was abominable). I agree they did not expect to go far because they had no supporting resources set up (I've already talked about this). It was a statement, not a land grab (aka liberation, technically).

My comment re an argument from incredulity is based on your assuming I even SEE western media lol. I almost never see any. I have had not had a TV with any channels since about 2007 I had almost zero knowledge of this conflict from any leaning (still don't, really). So i was certainly not indoctrinated - and being accused of it pisses me off.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Because they were powerfuil enough to control everything and as a result non Muslims were second class citizens.

And yet Jews were much better treated under the Ottomans than almost anywhere else in the world at that time. Certainly better than in Europe.

Nearly half of humanity does follow these religions. If you have a major wound that covers or even just infects half your body odds are you're dead. Maybe with the best of modern medical treatment you might survive. If you have a major wound in your psyche or soul that is the equivalent size and you let it fester your life will be shithouse and you'll end up dead before your time.

So that's it then, people are slaves to their religion. Except, you'd think that would mean people have solidarity with others of their own faith. Yet Armenia never got solidarity from Western Christians when fighting against Muslims. Nor the South Sudanese. Nor West African Christians fighting Boko Haram. And likewise, the Rohingya get no solidarity from other Muslims.

What do all these groups have in common? Besides not sitting on vast oil deposits or being needed by religious extremists to fulfil prophecy, they don't look like the dominant ethnicity of their religion. Race remains a massive factor in how we value human life, both within conflicts and between conflicts, even more so than religion.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Oh they intended it all right. Had it planned for a long time. And if they get the opportunity they will do it “again and again and again”.

What do you think they intended?

Whats your commentary on the West Bank land grab and apartheid situation, where Hamas has no presence?

 

[schneebly111]

Saying the quiet part out loud again: