Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[FIGJAM]

How will you ever expand your knowledge without considering opposing views?

Ironically I do actually pay attention to the arguments from both sides, hence why I've formed the point of view that I have in the first place.

It's an inextricably complex situation over there, made worse by the amount of propaganda from both sides. I think there are many out there who've got sucked down the vortex of one side.

 

[Jello_B]

You using the terms genocide and ethnic cleansing are the one twisting things.

Do you or do you not agree with this; if Hamas relinquished power today and released the hostages, Israel would cease the current conflict?

Wow, you honestly believe that if the hostages were given back, and hamas relinquished power, Israel would call a truce and start behaving like a good neighbour. I don’t think dogs would even out this out there.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

You using the terms genocide and ethnic cleansing are the one twisting things.

Do you or do you not agree with this; if Hamas relinquished power today and released the hostages, Israel would cease the current conflict?

Did you still believe the calendar was Hamas intel as well?

 

[Cameron_Jezza]

Doubt it. Russians and Ukrainians share a connected history and there is a lot of cultural crossover. Many families exist across both countries. Sure - Russia may have looked to slaughter the resistance, but I’d expect you’d see a lot less “collateral damage than in Gaza.
Israel and Hamas hate each other. Both parties would be happy if the other didn’t exist, and are happy to facilitate the process.

They need to talk. Perhaps a debate about where the border between Israel and Palestine should be at the UN. The 15 members of the security council should vote on it. A reasonable outcome would prevail.

 

[leon123]

Did you still believe the calendar was Hamas intel as well?

Well i certainly do.

Its a calendar - peoples birthday dates, long weekends etc... good intel

 

[PieLebo87]

Schools

“Tanks on the Playground”

The 71-page report, “Tanks on the Playground,” documents the damage and destruction of schools and kindergartens in four Ukrainian regions during the first months of the fighting. Most of the damage to educational facilities resulted from aerial attacks, artillery shelling, rocket strikes, and...

www.hrw.org

Hospitals

Russian strikes on hospitals during the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Infrastructure

Russian strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure (2022–present) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What’s the funniest thing for me is Kirby’s reaction on the civilian causalities in the two conflicts.

 

[PieLebo87]

You using the terms genocide and ethnic cleansing are the one twisting things.

Do you or do you not agree with this; if Hamas relinquished power today and released the hostages, Israel would cease the current conflict?

Like what’s happening in the West Bank? Is that what you mean?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

“I am are tired, it's enough, I don't have any breath left in me!" one man shouted at our camera inside Gaza.

"What resolution? Just give up and surrender!

"This is the act of idiots! He caused the death of his own people - Sinwar has killed his own people!"

Image:A displaced man in Gaza blames Hamas



For the picky ones. 'Just give up and surrender': Hamas outgunned and outnumbered - and some in Gaza blame leader

 

[PieLebo87]

“I am are tired, it's enough, I don't have any breath left in me!" one man shouted at our camera inside Gaza.

"What resolution? Just give up and surrender!

"This is the act of idiots! He caused the death of his own people - Sinwar has killed his own people!"

Image:A displaced man in Gaza blames Hamas



For the picky ones. 'Just give up and surrender': Hamas outgunned and outnumbered - and some in Gaza blame leader

Imagine supporting a genocidal state that has driven people to absolute despair then sharing this ridiculous propaganda

 

[Ghost Patrol]

“I am are tired, it's enough, I don't have any breath left in me!" one man shouted at our camera inside Gaza.

"What resolution? Just give up and surrender!

"This is the act of idiots! He caused the death of his own people - Sinwar has killed his own people!"

Image:A displaced man in Gaza blames Hamas



For the picky ones. 'Just give up and surrender': Hamas outgunned and outnumbered - and some in Gaza blame leader

Click through and read this thread. This is what you are supporting.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Ironically I do actually pay attention to the arguments from both sides, hence why I've formed the point of view that I have in the first place.

It's an inextricably complex situation over there, made worse by the amount of propaganda from both sides. I think there are many out there who've got sucked down the vortex of one side.

Maybe you should read Glaeken's reply to your question, there was no "one side" in his/their reply, just a reasoned summation of the situation. Rather than "ICBF".

 

[leon123]

“I am are tired, it's enough, I don't have any breath left in me!" one man shouted at our camera inside Gaza.

"What resolution? Just give up and surrender!

"This is the act of idiots! He caused the death of his own people - Sinwar has killed his own people!"

Image:A displaced man in Gaza blames Hamas



For the picky ones. 'Just give up and surrender': Hamas outgunned and outnumbered - and some in Gaza blame leader

You continually post rubbish, you never enter discussion. What is your point, do you have a point, can you clearly articulate your position or views.... lets see

 

[PieLebo87]

Click through and read this thread. This is what you are supporting.

What’s sad and pathetic is there are bound to be a few in there that are descendants of holocaust survivors. You’d think they’d know better. Such a sad state of affairs.

 

[Jello_B]

What’s the funniest thing for me is Kirby’s reaction on the civilian causalities in the two conflicts.

What a ****head

 

[treeebeard]

I'd argue that the intent of the Israeli's were known from early on by the massive amount of Palestinian refugees was clear and evident evidence of ethnic cleansing early on

Leaked: Israeli plan to ethnically cleanse Gaza

The plan advocates the forced transfer of the population of the Gaza Strip to Sinai permanently, and calls for the international community to be leveraged to assist the move

new.thecradle.co

 

[QuietB]

They need to talk. Perhaps a debate about where the border between Israel and Palestine should be at the UN. The 15 members of the security council should vote on it. A reasonable outcome would prevail.

Good luck with that

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Israel definitely would not cease if Hamas said they were surrendering. It's not a war. Israel are trying to kill them all, they're not going to let them surrender.

Do you think even if Israel were convinced every member of Hamas was dead, and they have all the hostages back, that they'll let Gaza live in peace and lift the occupation completely? If not, then they're still a violent occupying force and resistance should be expected.

From a Israel political pov a Ceasefire would be a win for Hamas and a defeat for Israel.

Any result where the war ends with Hamas staying in power in Gaza is just waiting for another inevitable attack.

Its not that different from the Ukraine conflict a Ceasfire where Russia holds occupied or conquered territory is just going to delay the inevitable renewed invasion years down the line.

Terrorists and Dicitators view diplomacy as a weakness, Ceasefire is a waste of time and just prolongs the war continuing.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Click through and read this thread. This is what you are supporting.

I do suspect gallows type humor and dehumanisation of your enemy to be a coping mechanism for those in an army setting
(but then I do have lower expectations of the humanity of those involved)

 

[PieLebo87]

From a Israel political pov a Ceasefire would be a win for Hamas and a defeat for Israel.

Any result where the war ends with Hamas staying in power in Gaza is just waiting for another inevitable attack.

Its not that different from the Ukraine conflict a Ceasfire where Russia holds occupied or conquered territory is just going to delay the inevitable renewed invasion years down the line.

Terrorists and Dicitators view diplomacy as a weakness, Ceasefire is a waste of time and just prolongs the war continuing.

Israel win the territorial battle either way, which is what they’re after.

Whether it’s done through the charades of ‘war’ in Gaza, or through their encroachment in the West Bank, America will make sure Israel gets what it wants.

It really makes no difference, and the true suffering is felt by the Palestinians who will be displaced in both territories.

We can all sit here and argue, share articles and discuss different interpretations, but whether it by methods they are implementing in Gaza or methods they’re implementing in the West Bank, the west will sit silently and allow it to happen.

The next question is where does it stop? What if Zionism decides Lebanon is their chosen land? What if Syria is too? They can instigate/start/play victims to another war and continue expanding. Nothing we can do outside the Arabs standing up and starting WWIII.

 

[PieLebo87]

 

[PieLebo87]

 

[Blue1980]

I am interested in your last paragraph, about saving the ethnic cleansing comments for Nazi Germany and Rwanda.

Isn’t that a bit ironic?

People look back on both these with guilt and embarrassment for refusing to accept what was happening until it was too late.

Your post reads as if you can only deem something to be genocide after the fact, how do you prevent genocide from happening if you/we fail to see it unfolding?

Yes it isn’t like the Nazis were just came out and did a press conference and said “yeah we are now doing a genocide!”, that isn’t the way these things work.

 

[Blue1980]

If you accuse people of not paying attention. Clearly this statement shows you haven't been paying attention to places like Rwanda, Cambodia, Xinjiang the Congo or Latin America between WW2 and now.

It's Ethnic Cleansing for sure. It's possibly genocide. But we see it more regularly than we'd like to accept.

It possibly hasn't been done by a Democracy since the Nazis.

Israel complaining about the Holocaust giving them special rights can officially cease now that they've become the perpetrator of a similar crime. They're now nothing more than another religious ethno-state obsessed with stealing land granted to it by God, not just the survival of the Jewish people. A nonsense position.

(Hamas's position is equally heinous, but they've not pretended to be anything other than a religious ethno-state, even though they've never been a recognised state).

Nazi Germany wasn’t a democracy by the time the Nazis were in power.

Maybe greatest act of genocide/ethnic cleansing by a member of the western world since then would be more accurate.

 

[Blue1980]

If that is the case then you could argue the same for the escalation of the Russo-Ukrainian war in early 2021 given the amount of Ukrainian refugees, yet nobody seems to suggest ethnic cleansing on that front.

Not getting caught in the crossfire is different from being intentionally driven out of a region based on ethnicity.

Russia certainly have tried it on, they just don’t have the backing of the western world like Israel do to pull it off.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

15m ago Guardian live blog
04.10 AEDT
White House 'concerned' by reports Israel military is using white phosphorus
The White House says it is “concerned” over new reports that Israel used US-supplied white phosphorus in a bombing attack in Lebanon that injured civilians and burned down houses.

John Kirby, strategic communications coordinator for the National Security Council, has just been briefing reporters aboard Air Force One, and was asked about the allegations. Israel has previously denied it uses white phosphorus, which critics say put civilians at risk of serious and long-term injury, and is banned from use in civilian areas.

Kirby said the Biden administration would be raising the issue with Israel’s government: