It's time to seriously consider Craig's future

[TheLeftFist8]

I kind of agree with this, but I also think if you rely to much on "emotion" it can become a falsity. We've seen teams come out all huff and puff and it lasts for about five minutes before they get blown away.

Certainly you can go over the top of the 'arousal curve' and detract from performance but history says the real people/teams with complex emotions and motivations have the ability to 'step up' from their usual performance level when the special occasion demands it.

 

[birdmanptr]

Certainly you can go over the top of the 'arousal curve' and detract from performance but history says the real people/teams with complex emotions and motivations have the ability to 'step up' from their usual performance level when the special occasion demands it.

That's why never have never will beat Collingwood in a final

In finals Malthouse>>>>Craig

 

[afc1991]

Why is it surprising though? Lose close games and games vs top 4 in the H&A, its bound to happen in finals.

Craig this Craig that

Here's the thing: IT WAS EXACTLY THE SAME WITH THE COACH BEFORE CRAIG we just weren't as good in the H&A.

What is the constant?: THE SENIOR PLAYERS

What happened this year?: WE HAD A BETTER RECORD VS THE TOP 4 AND ACTUALLY WON A CLOSE GAME

And that was mostly on the back of the 'new breed'. The new breed were not the ones that let us down in the final last year either. It's a better spread of talent than what we've had before, when they mature we will be a force.

Im not trying to bag our past players, champions of our club, and even the game. However you have to look at the post premiership era, the goodwin edwards mcleod era- theres a theme with results in finals/close games. Craig should have a chance with the squad that hes drafted.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Why is it surprising though? Lose close games and games vs top 4 in the H&A, its bound to happen in finals.

Craig this Craig that

Here's the thing: IT WAS EXACTLY THE SAME WITH THE COACH BEFORE CRAIG we just weren't as good in the H&A.

What is the constant?: THE SENIOR PLAYERS

What happened this year?: WE HAD A BETTER RECORD VS THE TOP 4 AND ACTUALLY WON A CLOSE GAME

And that was mostly on the back of the 'new breed'. The new breed were not the ones that let us down in the final last year either. It's a better spread of talent than what we've had before, when they mature we will be a force.

Im not trying to bag our past players, champions of our club, and even the game. However you have to look at the post premiership era, the goodwin edwards mcleod era- theres a theme with results in finals/close games. Craig should have a chance with the squad that hes drafted.

I'm not sure I agree with that. In the 2005 and 2006 finals series, it certainly wasn't the senior players that let us down.

The 2006 prelim especially, was a glaring example of how too much was left to the senior players (McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards, Burton....all played magnificently). Our second and third tiers let us down badly that day.

 

[afc1991]

I'm not sure I agree with that. In the 2005 and 2006 finals series, it certainly wasn't the senior players that let us down.

The 2006 prelim especially, was a glaring example of how too much was left to the senior players (McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards, Burton....all played magnificently). Our second and third tiers let us down badly that day.

They were at the helm though.

Point is they werent enough as the top tier, which was proven over a period of time, producing similar results for two different coaches.

I believe we have a better list coming through- not sure anyone will get legend status that mcleod has- but more potential match winners and I like the fact that the talent isnt limited to midfield/half back positions.

 

[Huntercrow]

which is irrelevant to the assessment of Craigy's performance over his tenure at the club...

My mistake!
Yes Craigy should be sacked because it is the populist view on BF that someone must be blamed for everything that is wrong with the state of SA!

 

[SurfingTheVoid]

Totally agree with this. If you actually look at every finals series under Craig in isolation, you could argue bad luck has played a major role in his record. A key injury here, a free kick there, a goal near the siren there. We've lost 4 finals by a combined margin of about 20 points. Even St Kilda winning by a thousand points in Round 22 of 2008 which cost us a double chance. We've been cursed.

When do you get to the point where it's no longer bad luck though? The buck has to stop somewhere. I for one am sick of losing close finals.

On the contrary - good teams overcome difficulties and rise to the occasion during finals.

Our problem was not bad luck - it was choking. A distinctly South Australian phenomenon (maybe a Collingwood one too).

 

[footy4ever]

On the contrary - good teams overcome difficulties and rise to the occasion during finals.

Our problem was not bad luck - it was choking. A distinctly South Australian phenomenon (maybe a Collingwood one too).

Yeah nah. Power are the only SA chokers. But what else could you expect from a gutless club like that?

 

[Allefgib]

My mistake!
Yes Craigy should be sacked because it is the populist view on BF that someone must be blamed for everything that is wrong with the state of SA!

What a load of sooky sooky la-la tripe.

Next year will be tough - no doubt about that. Has a chance of being alot better than this year - also has a slight chance of being worse.

The point is when we talk about Craigy's future is you have to examine the performance over time. Not just say if he has a young, inexperienced team next year than he should be forgiven a poor return.

The list situation he has to live with next year is pretty much one of his own creation. He's made his bed and is now going to lie in it.

I hope he proves me, and others that suspect he's just not good enough, wrong!

 

[Slippery Pete]

On the contrary - good teams overcome difficulties and rise to the occasion during finals.

Our problem was not bad luck - it was choking. A distinctly South Australian phenomenon (maybe a Collingwood one too).

Only a handful of clubs have a better finals record than Adelaide.

Adelaide has a better finals record than West Coast, Sydney, Fremantle and most Victorian clubs - some who haven't won flags for 40+ years, and some who've barely made a finals series for 30.

Care to elaborate on your statement?

 

[Cap]

I ****ing hate this bullshit term choking

every moron and their dog have started using it and the media have started sprouting it every opportunity they get

the fact is in sport 1 team wins and another loses, I have only ever seen a handful of teams who you could legitimately say they didn't know how to win and lost themselves the game, considering two of those "teams" are Pakistan kinda sums it up for me.

otherwise its just another team playing better on the day which our final system rewards rather then a best of 2 or 3 which other sports have (i'm not saying its better or worse)

 

[SurfingTheVoid]

Only a handful of clubs have a better finals record than Adelaide.

Adelaide has a better finals record than West Coast, Sydney, Fremantle and most Victorian clubs - some who haven't won flags for 40+ years, and some who've barely made a finals series for 30.

Care to elaborate on your statement?

We're talking about our finals record since Craig took over. Which you knew.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I ****ing hate this bullshit term choking

I agree, its no turned into a turn of phrase associated to any team that losses a game.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

On the contrary - good teams overcome difficulties and rise to the occasion during finals.

Our problem was not bad luck - it was choking. A distinctly South Australian phenomenon (maybe a Collingwood one too).

Can you please explain to us your concept of choking?

 

[SurfingTheVoid]

Can you please explain to us your concept of choking?

Consistently losing games where you either a. should win because of clearly superior talent or b. have a considerable advantage during the game and let it slip.

Where it happens occasionally, it's not choking. When it becomes a pattern, it is.

 

[Cap]

Consistently losing games where you either a. should win because of clearly superior talent or b. have a considerable advantage during the game and let it slip.

Where it happens occasionally, it's not choking. When it becomes a pattern, it is.

nothing too specific then

 

[jenny61_99]

Every year teams beat teams they aren't supposed to and lose to those they are supposed to beat.

Happened a LOT this year:

Round 1: Fremantle v Adelaide (a flogging no less, certainly not expected)
Round 2: Adelaide v Sydney (sydney hadn't beaten us for years)
Round 2: Essendon v Fremantle (Freo hadn't won outside of Perth.... like, ever!)
Round 3: Melbourne v Adelaide (same as Sydney)
Round 3: Fremantle v Geelong
Round 5: Melbourne v Brisbane
Round 5: Port Adelaide v St Kilda
Round 5: Carlton v Geelong
Round 6: Essendon v Hawthorn
Round 6: West Coast v Fremantle
Round 7: West Coast v Hawthorn
Round 7: Brisbane v Fremantle (another win away!)
Round 7: St Kilda v Carlton
Round 8: Melbourne v West Coast (an unusual win away)
Round 8: North v Adelaide
Round 8: St Kilda v Essendon

etc. etc.etc.

 

[Allefgib]

and the consistently bit Jenny? What's your evidence for that?

 

[relapse]

nothing too specific then

Well you might not define it as choking, but there is a pattern under Craig where we seem to build a semi reasonable lead and then have no ability to be able to withstand a lift in intensity in the 2nd half from our opponents.

22 points lead against the eagles at home in 2006
31 points lead against Hawthorn in 2007
almost 6 goal lead against Collingwood in 2009

The fact that we couldnt hold out to win even just one of those games shows that we seem to lack the mental edge in September to be able to hold on, you can't blame people for defining that as choking.

 

[Huntercrow]

What a load of sooky sooky la-la tripe.

Next year will be tough - no doubt about that. Has a chance of being alot better than this year - also has a slight chance of being worse.

The point is when we talk about Craigy's future is you have to examine the performance over time. Not just say if he has a young, inexperienced team next year than he should be forgiven a poor return.

The list situation he has to live with next year is pretty much one of his own creation. He's made his bed and is now going to lie in it.

I hope he proves me, and others that suspect he's just not good enough, wrong!

This is the umpteenth thread on the same subject and it does get a bit tiresome and predictable.
If you seriously believe Neil Craig is our biggest problem then good luck to you, however I believe we have more pressing issues coming up.

The new TV deal for one and how the spoils will be shared!
Who will benefit the most and who will have to make sacrifices for the good of the AFL.

The problem for us is if you don't live on the East Coast you seem to be out of favor with Vlad.
You only have to look at the concessions to GC and GWS, they are ridiculous in their generosity and look like they will produce powerful teams for the next 10 - 15 years just from their starting lists.
The Melbourne teams will always be looked after so the teams that will take the brunt of the player drain will be from SA & WA.
Reasons being...
Unfortunately for us and WA our combined ratings share is small, so as far as TV rights go we will end up with the scraps after the East Coast has taken the lions share of the "prime time" games
We will get More saturday night/ sunday twilight games and less Collingwood or the stronger Melbourne teams.
The drawer will favor larger crowds in Melbourne to suit the networks, they will be paying the big bucks so they will want their moneys worth and the AFL will bend over backwards to show their gratitude.
At the moment 3 of the 4 "SA/WA" teams are basket cases, if it wasn't for Freo the season may as well have ended in July, so the immediate future doesn't look too rosy for us or our mates in Perth.

 

[Allefgib]

What on earth does that have to do with Craigy's future?

Except that if we managed to put up some exciting football, with elite talent on display and push deep into the finals with a real chance to win the flag... we might actually turn that situation around.

It boggles my mind that we have people who post here who believe umpires cheat and that the AFL wants us to fail..... but won't dare question the only thing the AFC really does have in its own control.. our ability to improve ourselves from within by changing our current direction in the football department.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Consistently losing games where you either a. should win because of clearly superior talent or b. have a considerable advantage during the game and let it slip.

Where it happens occasionally, it's not choking. When it becomes a pattern, it is.

Can you be specific and identify some games where this has occurred before we start this discussion?

 

[SurfingTheVoid]

Every year teams beat teams they aren't supposed to and lose to those they are supposed to beat.

Happened a LOT this year:

Round 1: Fremantle v Adelaide (a flogging no less, certainly not expected)
Round 2: Adelaide v Sydney (sydney hadn't beaten us for years)
Round 2: Essendon v Fremantle (Freo hadn't won outside of Perth.... like, ever!)
Round 3: Melbourne v Adelaide (same as Sydney)
Round 3: Fremantle v Geelong
Round 5: Melbourne v Brisbane
Round 5: Port Adelaide v St Kilda
Round 5: Carlton v Geelong
Round 6: Essendon v Hawthorn
Round 6: West Coast v Fremantle
Round 7: West Coast v Hawthorn
Round 7: Brisbane v Fremantle (another win away!)
Round 7: St Kilda v Carlton
Round 8: Melbourne v West Coast (an unusual win away)
Round 8: North v Adelaide
Round 8: St Kilda v Essendon

etc. etc.etc.

What a ridiculous list. You're hyping up teams that are having a good season beating a team having a bad season. That's not upsets, or choking. That's just good teams beating crap teams.

Can you be specific and identify some games where this has occurred before we start this discussion?

See Cap's post.

 

[Huntercrow]

What on earth does that have to do with Craigy's future?

Except that if we managed to put up some exciting football, with elite talent on display and push deep into the finals with a real chance to win the flag... we might actually turn that situation around.

It boggles my mind that we have people who post here who believe umpires cheat and that the AFL wants us to fail..... but won't dare question the only thing the AFC really does have in its own control.. our ability to improve ourselves from within by changing our current direction in the football department.

Did you read my post? I answered your question in the first paragraph!
Maybe you should "Unboggle" your mind before replying.

 

[jenny61_99]

What a ridiculous list. You're hyping up teams that are having a good season beating a team having a bad season. That's not upsets, or choking. That's just good teams beating crap teams.

But Freo weren't good - and we weren't crap. And then you get your Essendon's beating St Kilda... etc.etc. There's plenty in that list to prove a point - AND, I stopped at round 8. Teams that were expected to win, lost. Teams that were expected to lose, won. Happens every year... many, many times. Is it choking? I don't think so. It's just the nature of the game. If every team that was supposed to win, always won, and every team that was supposed to lose, always lost, there'd be no need for ladders, no need for premiership points, no need for passion and no need for supporters. Boring and predictable.... and this season has been anything but that!