Its Time........

[timbo]

If you combine the responces of the AFLs Ben Buckley and the Brisbane Lions Michael Bowers last week over the mutual merger breech, you get an exact transcript of pages three and four of Ian Collins autobiography" How to stiff Fitzroy people and remain completely blameless". The crowning touch of course was the timing, smoooth.
Fitzroy people,weve been to this party before and once again we got the costume invites to the Governors Black Tie. The time is now right for the marriage of convenience, mainly the AFLs and Brisbanes convenience, to come to an official and amicable end. This is not about only getting five games in Victoria, this is about the AFL and Brisbane Lions deliberately
undermining any agreement designed to protect the history and culture of the Fitzroy Football Club because that what the merger agreement was specifically designed to do, using Melbourne FC as a convenient tool.
If and when an official approach was made to return the name Fitzroy and all
historical items held in both Brisbane and (whats left) in Melbourne to Bill Atherton, Dyson Hore Lacy etc, it would help tremendously in their continuing community work and preservation and promotion of Fitzroy culture.
This, above all else is now the most important issue. The Brisbane Lions and AFL have shown once again they are incapable of satisfying two seperate football cultures under one umbrella. Personally i would still follow the Brisbane Lions if and when there was an official split, because of the last eight years and not the thirty before it. I am sick of this "history' limbo i am forced to live in as a past Fitzroy supporter, if the Lions did not start in 1883,
then how can it be 1987? This is what an official split would achieve, certainty, a full stop in history. If the status quo remains, the future, the immedeate future will see continued watering down of any position Fitzroy has at this club, what happened last week is indefendale on any level.
I am very interested in the thoughts of other ex Fitzroy people particularly
on this issue as it seems to have been brushed over, page one of Collos biog.
Timbo.

 

[Chasing the Dream]

Mate, I hope this has gotten it off your chest and you can move on as we do not need to argue between ourselves.

I am a Queensland based member, and genuinely see your disapointment. The AFL are a vindicive lot, and we have well and truely been shafted for our stance on the Cadbury deal as well as Leigh's snub of Anderson and comments after the final, although I think the stone was set much earlier than that.

One thing I think we must all come to terms with, and I do not know where it starts, whether it be the ALF or the club, is that the Brisbane Lions is made up from two clubs, the Fitzroy Football Club, and the Brisbane Bears Football Club. From Round One, 1997, niether of the two teams existed any more. The Brisbane Lions Football Club was born.

Why do our records start from 1987? It is a joke, and the club should ensure that the records reflect the true results of our football club, those post 1996.

I for one will take this question to the AGM. It has frustrated me since 1997 and we should get the club to make an offical statement on the issue. If the club wants the records to reveal post 1996 results as well, then let them tell us, and we can start on the AFL.

Your point is valid, but do not hang the club for it. Two clubs made one, I also know of a lot of old Bears fans who were not that happy with what happened as well, but that is old news now, and the show must go on.

PS. Pikey is probably not the only person walking around who wanted to headbutt Bowers, saved me from doing it.

 

[timbo]

Mate, good luck with your presentation at the AGM, I have lobbied both the Board of the Lions abd the AFL for EIGHT years on this subject with only the
standard political responces, as were heard after the 2005 Fixture announcment. You say not to hang it on the club, it is the club that has deliberately breached the arrangment, it did so when it extended the agreement with Melbourne FC to play its Home game in Brisbane AFTER being told by the AFL that by doing so it would only get five games in Melbourne.
Everything else is window dressing. Mate did you know that the clubs website
only included a Fitzroy history component last year?
If your sick and tired of this issue how do you think we feel?,you have nothing to lose from things just keepin on but we have everything to lose, our identity. Mate, one last thing, we dont give up.
Timbo.

 

[Chasing the Dream]

How long does it take to have a history?

I was a member of the Brisbane Bears for all but their first year, and there were others. (Really there were!! )

I know that Fitzroy lost more than the Bears fans, as we still have the team playing up here. But just remember that after hardly winning a agme for 8 seasons, the Bears were just turning the corner and earning some respect, 1995 was a breakthrough year, and we were beaten in the finals by the eventual premier. 1996 was a sensational year and again we were knocked out in a prelim by the eventual premier.

The Bears may well have been the laughing stock of the AFL most of their time in the AFL, but they were the team we supported. We lost our jumper, our mascot, and our song.

With respect to the 5 games in Melbourne, I can not agree more that it is a joke. But WHY can the AFL not give us 6 at least? They can organise ANZAC Day to be a mini sponsor of Essendon & Collingwood. They can organise two derby's in SA & WA each year and there are pleny more examples of what they can do. The Lions ask to not travel to Sydney, Adelaide twice and Perth twice all in one year (which is pretty much the only way there can only be 5 Vic games unless they start sending us to Tassie or Darwin which they also tried for 2005) and the answer is sorry, we can't help. When will it be Fremantles turn to play at the GABBA, it will now be three years running that they have avoided the trip.

The AFL is a vindictive bunch. If you do something they do not like, they will wait until they get their moment and then they will make you pay. The fixture is the best way they can do it, and in 2004 they had a beef with the Lions over a sponsorship agreement and the MCC over a contract which the AFL signed, and whamoo, out comes the 2005 fixture, and both the Lions and the MCC have been shafted. Amazing coincidence, I tend to think not.

 

[Chasing the Dream]

If your sick and tired of this issue how do you think we feel?,you have nothing to lose from things just keepin on but we have everything to lose, our identity. Mate, one last thing, we dont give up.
Timbo.

My point is that we did loose something as well, our previous identity is gone, all bar some stats that really do not matter any more anyway.

The team is the Brisbane Lions.

The club song is to the same turn as Fitzroys

The jumper looks very similar to the old Fitzroy jumper.

Do you think that when the merger happened, that everyone up here was happy? A General Meeting of the club was called and more people turned up than generally turned up to some early Bears matches. The feeling there was not one of love.

Both previous clubs have pretty much lost their old identity, I am sorry if you have not realised this earlier, but it has happened. The Brisbane Lions is now what we have, and I hope that the next 10 generations of my family have it to support like I enjoy doing.

 

[lioness]

Why do our records start from 1987? It is a joke, and the club should ensure that the records reflect the true results of our football club, those post 1996.

Absolutely agree on that point. I think that including the Bears' history in with the Brisbane Lions somehow takes a little bit more of the Bears identity away and that isn't fair. And on the Fitzroy side, it's not our history so yeah it's kind of unfair on everyone!

Just on the 5 games in Melbourne issue, I do agree that we shouldn't make it a Bears v Roys supporters issue, god knows we've had enough happen to divide the two groups in the past and it saddens me to see people point fingers and act like we're not one club, which we are. I would like to see the club as a whole stand up and fight for what we're entitled to, that's all. I don't really see it as favouritism towards the Qld based supporters or anything like that because that's nonsense. If I'm angry with anyone it's the AFL, but hey, that's not new for me.

The merger was hard on EVERYONE involved, whether you're a Bears or Fitzroy supporter, we all have scars, and every single one of us has dealt with it in a completely unique way. Fitzroy existed for a lot longer, but in the end we all lost something we loved and put our heart and soul into and that's going to be hard no matter how long or short it was here for. I'll be making the move to Qld in the new year and I'll hopefully make it to the Gabba for a couple of Lions matches and look forward to catching up with some of our Northern friends! I'm sure quite a few of you have a lot you could share with me about the Bears, and vice versa. And that's what it's all about, and celebrating what we do have which is a new team with a short but extremely bright history.

 

[troppo]

It's not in the AFL's interest for the Brisbane Lions to have a growing Victorian based supporter group. The AFL would much rather these people support the remaining Victorian based clubs. This is the real reason behind the declining number of Brisbane Lions games in Melbourne. You don't think the reason the Lions play two games in Western Australia almost every year is coincidence. Sure take your bat and ball and go home,that's just what they want.

 

[Tim the Toolman]

As much as I am cynical of the AFL and its actions, I doubt whether that is entirely true. From a sponsorship / marketing alliance between corporates and the AFL it is important that games are attractive to crowds in order to build the interest hence the impact of having your signage at an event.

If the non Victorian sides had one sided support at a Victorian match, some of the matches would be non-events from a consumer's point of view e.g. Bullies v Fremantle, Hawks v Adelaide. Hell I remember sitting in a coporate box at a Melbourne v Swans match in the early 90's and there were only three of us there (capacity 16) and the Get Smart reruns on the TV were more interesting to watch.

I think the AFL does want Vic support for interstaters but their actions are merely retribution on the Lions and the way they continually push the envelope.

 

[Danni]

Let's get a smidgeon of perspective here.

1) It's nothing short of plain wrong that there is only 5 games in Victoria next year. I doubt anyone from any side of the merger or new to the club since the merger would disagree with that.

2) Recording/Reporting of Records/Statistics. As Shaz can atest to, it is the AFL and NOT the Brisbane Lions who refer to the records in this manner. The Lions themselves only report Brisbane Lions records from Rnd 1 1997 onwards. In their member publications they remember and recognise Fitzroy and Bears milestones and Brisbane Lions records - all seperately, so none is forgotten. The Club the VLSG and others have petitioned that AFL for years to rectify this with no success (and this is after the AFL actually did it for the first year or 2 of the merger, then for no apparent reason started doing it with Brisbane Lions and Brisbane Bears mixed together). If you check out the weekly update on the Lions site during the season where they preface the up-coming game, the head to head records v the opposition are Brisbane Lions only - not the same as the Lions/Bears figures the AFL post on their site and distribute to the media and put in their yearly AFL stats book etc.

3) Fitzroy Memorabilia. Timbo I'm not sure where you get your info about that stuff being up here in Qld but you are wrong. (btw, how are those Fitzroy undies that are older than the day the Bears were born going?). The Fitzroy 'memorabilia' here in Qld is 'new'. It's the honor boards created to recognise publicly to the members the history and achievements of Fitzroy and some framed copies of photographs, that's about it. The actual memorabilia that survived the purging of the merger is in Melbourne. Much of which is on display at the Manningham - some trophies, weg posters etc. And much more has been returned by those or the families of those who purged it to the club and is from what I understand in the hands of the historical society in Victoria. Either on display or being readied for display in Victoria. Just like the Fitzroy replica cups the Club has purchased, which are for display in Victoria. And unlike the Qld Members with no venue to view such items, the Victorian members can go to the Manningham to view what ever is on display at that time.

 

[Tim the Toolman]

And don't kid ourselves. The Manningham has more memorabilia than the Albion Charles ever did. I worked at Fitzroy and I haven't seen half the stuff that was on show at the Manningham before the merger.

The whole merger did give some stability to establishing some sort of supporters base and where were we before hand? Besides the Albion Charles there was nowhere to go and support and spend money for the roys. I reckon we're better off now than we were 10 years ago!

 

[luthor]

Let's get a smidgeon of perspective here.

1) It's nothing short of plain wrong that there is only 5 games in Victoria next year. I doubt anyone from any side of the merger or new to the club since the merger would disagree with that.

2) Recording/Reporting of Records/Statistics. As Shaz can atest to, it is the AFL and NOT the Brisbane Lions who refer to the records in this manner. The Lions themselves only report Brisbane Lions records from Rnd 1 1997 onwards. In their member publications they remember and recognise Fitzroy and Bears milestones and Brisbane Lions records - all seperately, so none is forgotten. The Club the VLSG and others have petitioned that AFL for years to rectify this with no success (and this is after the AFL actually did it for the first year or 2 of the merger, then for no apparent reason started doing it with Brisbane Lions and Brisbane Bears mixed together). If you check out the weekly update on the Lions site during the season where they preface the up-coming game, the head to head records v the opposition are Brisbane Lions only - not the same as the Lions/Bears figures the AFL post on their site and distribute to the media and put in their yearly AFL stats book etc.

3) Fitzroy Memorabilia. Timbo I'm not sure where you get your info about that stuff being up here in Qld but you are wrong. (btw, how are those Fitzroy undies that are older than the day the Bears were born going?). The Fitzroy 'memorabilia' here in Qld is 'new'. It's the honor boards created to recognise publicly to the members the history and achievements of Fitzroy and some framed copies of photographs, that's about it. The actual memorabilia that survived the purging of the merger is in Melbourne. Much of which is on display at the Manningham - some trophies, weg posters etc. And much more has been returned by those or the families of those who purged it to the club and is from what I understand in the hands of the historical society in Victoria. Either on display or being readied for display in Victoria. Just like the Fitzroy replica cups the Club has purchased, which are for display in Victoria. And unlike the Qld Members with no venue to view such items, the Victorian members can go to the Manningham to view what ever is on display at that time.

Sums it up perfectly.

Why blame the BRISBANE LIONS for the ridiculous attitudes of the AFL towards "recognition" (or otherwise) of certain statistical data???

Fitzroy people who are unhappy with the way the AFL treats Fitzroy heritage have their beef with the AFL, NOT the club itself.

From what I have seen, the club has done anything and everything possible to pay due respect to the Fitzroy side of the family and I applaud them for that.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

Sums it up perfectly.

Why blame the BRISBANE LIONS for the ridiculous attitudes of the AFL towards "recognition" (or otherwise) of certain statistical data???

Fitzroy people who are unhappy with the way the AFL treats Fitzroy heritage have their beef with the AFL, NOT the club itself.

From what I have seen, the club has done anything and everything possible to pay due respect to the Fitzroy side of the family and I applaud them for that.

I agree that the club has done an excellent job by providing for the Fitzroy history.

The main problem being that there will be only 5 games in Melbourne next year is seem by some as a slap in the face.

This is hightened when Mr Bowers (finally makes an announcement, surely due to public pressure - how long did it take?) that basically states that the purchased Melbourne game has cost a game in Victoria. The club entered into this contract knowing the possible consequences, but still proceeded.

Can anyone please inform me do we really need this extra revenue from the extra home game??

Please don't come back with with the other flimbsy reasons eg. travel, etc, as per the statement provided by the club. The decision was made on the basis of the almighty $$, with little thought given to 'alienation' of some supporters.

As I have previously stated it doesn't really worry me 5/6 games, but I am merely echoing the thoughts of some Lions people.

It's easy to cop out on the AFL be it the club or even some supporters. It was the club that made the decision knowing the consequences that may prevail. This is where the real issue lies.

Simply put Loyalty vs. $$$$$$$$$$.

Go Lions

 

[BrisGirl]

Please don't come back with with the other flimbsy reasons eg. travel, etc, as per the statement provided by the club.

I would have rather Brisbane play their Preliminary Final in Brisbane, as it would have benefitted us in the end playing at home that week then travelling to Melbourne for the Grand Final, we would have had more 'legs'.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

I would have rather Brisbane play their Preliminary Final in Brisbane, as it would have benefitted us in the end playing at home that week then travelling to Melbourne for the Grand Final, we would have had more 'legs'.

I would have too, but I can't see the relevance that this has to taking a Home & Away game out of Melbourne.

My point is that 'travel' was used as part of the reason to buy Melbournes game. We have played 6 games in Melbourne during each premiership season. Unfortunately this 'smokescreen' has obviously worked with some.

The whole decision is based aound MONEY, something I thought that we have plenty of already.

 

[BrisGirl]

I would have too, but I can't see the relevance that this has to taking a Home & Away game out of Melbourne.

My point is that 'travel' was used as part of the reason to buy Melbournes game. We have played 6 games in Melbourne during each premiership season. Unfortunately this 'smokescreen' has obviously worked with some.

The whole decision is based aound MONEY, something I thought that we have plenty of already.

I do not think it is based around money, for Melbourne certainly, but not for Brisbane.

If Melbourne did not come here, Brisbane would be the only Club in the Competition that would have to leave their State 11 times during the home and away season and I am pretty sure the players appreciate the rest.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

I do not think it is based around money, for Melbourne certainly, but not for Brisbane.

If Melbourne did not come here, Brisbane would be the only Club in the Competition that would have to leave their State 11 times during the home and away season and I am pretty sure the players appreciate the rest.

If you read the statement produced the underlying principle was the bottom line was money. Im sure we are the club won't be doing this at a loss.

Granted your point re: 11 times travel is valid.

They took the gamble to buy another home game hoping that it wouldn't affect Vic games, but it has. This does hurt some supporters that have been promised otherwise.

PS. thanks for your honest opinion. These things do need to be talked about at times, to present both sides.

 

[adey115]

the dosh must play a factor. i thought Melbourne benefited financially, as did the Lions from extra $$ paid by members for a 12 game membership instead of an 11 game membership.