Toast James Sicily - Hawthorn captain 2023 - AA 2023!

[Dewyyyyy]

Respectfully disagree, he was awful in the first half. His job is to set the tempo and effort levels, he failed on that front. There was a particular piece of play in the second quarter where he refused to engage and simply just corralled - he then slowly tracked back as his man sprinted into the forward 50. Not good enough - the captain should be ferocious in that circumstance to help lift his energyless side.

DE can be a very misleading stat - can you provide me an example of him kicking long to release us, majority of it was sideways kicking, yet I remember in the third quarter him costing us a goal as he turned he ball over at CHB when he over handballed instead of kicking. This was at a crucial point when we had momentum.

I also distinctly remember Day being out in a big way across CHB in the second quarter and Sicily ignored him - it was a long kick that he would normally take.

My heightened sensitivity with him is because he is now the Captain, and as such he needs to be held to a higher standard. In my view, over the course of the last 2-3 weeks he hasn't been fulfilling his duties both with his leadership on field (namely his energy levels and leading by example) and his Tasmania comments. In fairness, he did improve in the second half, but that should be his non-negotiable standard.

It may be unpopular, but it needed to be said.

Happy to respond and all that later today. It’s a good discussion

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Funnily enough, Sic hasn't lost a 1:1 since the North game.

Yeah, he’s been immense defensively imho.

 

[Argy]

When the team's going well and the average number of games is high, the captaincy is easy. When we are as inexperienced as we are right now, no amount of "captain's efforts", stirring speeches or attitude is going to be enough on game day.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Funnily enough, Sic hasn't lost a 1:1 since the North game.

How many one-on-ones has he been in?

 

[AussieToffee15]

When the team's going well and the average number of games is high, the captaincy is easy. When we are as inexperienced as we are right now, no amount of "captain's efforts", stirring speeches or attitude is going to be enough on game day.

I fundamentally disagree with this.

The captaincy when you're going poorly should be quite basic. Non-negotiable effort and leading by example. It's one of the key tangible things that a young side needs.

I'm not expecting the captain to win us games off his own back, but he is supposed to set the standards, and in the last 2-3 weeks (albeit much improved in the second half this week) Sicily has let himself and the team down.

I am confident it is just a blip, but I think it is well worth identifying.

 

[KermitJagger]

How many one-on-ones has he been in?

He's been in 16 across all games bar north, where he has lost 0. In the north game he was in 6 and lost 3.

 

[Argy]

I fundamentally disagree with this.

The captaincy when you're going poorly should be quite basic. Non-negotiable effort and leading by example. It's one of the key tangible things that a young side needs.

I'm not expecting the captain to win us games off his own back, but he is supposed to set the standards, and in the last 2-3 weeks (albeit much improved in the second half this week) Sicily has let himself and the team down.

I am confident it is just a blip, but I think it is well worth identifying.

The actual role of a captain in an inexperienced side might be better defined in one narrow sense, but it is most certainly not as easy as being a captain in a top eight side that has played together for several years. In a young, inexperienced side, the captain is trying to nurture the young guys, play well himself, and generally has a lot more to do and think about. His personal game risks being victim to all those "distractions".

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I get some of the criticism about his body language (although I think we might be making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill).

But really Sic is still our best player and statistically is having an even better year than last year (24.22 possessions, 9.00 marks a game is bloody good going).

Really our biggest issue is that we are still forcing a guy who is 188cm and 90kg to play on guys 10cm and 10kg heavier than him every week.

He can do this as he is so talented but it must be draining for him to do this role and be captain at the same time. We desperately need one of Blank or DGB to take the next step to take some pressure off him.

 

[SSSSSS]

My biggest problem with Sicily this year is how often he has sold his teammates in to trouble (not alone there). So many shitty little handballs to the feet of a flat footed defender when he has the skillset to pin point the clearing kick is mind boggling. Maybe he just wants to get his teammates more involved in the game? I'm not sure but really wish he would take the responsibility more often.

Too many soft free kicks given away but you are always going to get that with Sis. It's part of playing the game on the edge.

Only other gripe is he can be quite ball hungry (which I don't mind for someone who has his skillset) but FFS go lay a shepherd from time to time instead of looking for the cheapie.

In the air still impervious as always. Thought he looked his best yesterday playing as the spare before Blanck went down.

 

[AussieToffee15]

I get some of the criticism about his body language (although I think we might be making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill).

But really Sic is still our best player and statistically is having an even better year than last year (24.22 possessions, 9.00 marks a game is bloody good going).

Really our biggest issue is that we are still forcing a guy who is 188cm and 90kg to play on guys 10cm and 10kg heavier than him every week.

He can do this as he is so talented but it must be draining for him to do this role and be captain at the same time. We desperately need one of Blank or DGB to take the next step to take some pressure off him.

I agree with the match up point. He would be better suited as the third tall.

I'd really like to give Kosi 3-4 weeks at Box Hill in the full back role. Initially recruited in that position, and his intensity and effort is always there, he just doesn't have the hands to do it in the forward line.

 

[KermitJagger]

I fundamentally disagree with this.

The captaincy when you're going poorly should be quite basic. Non-negotiable effort and leading by example. It's one of the key tangible things that a young side needs.

I'm not expecting the captain to win us games off his own back, but he is supposed to set the standards, and in the last 2-3 weeks (albeit much improved in the second half this week) Sicily has let himself and the team down.

I am confident it is just a blip, but I think it is well worth identifying.

Sicily is setting standards.

As a key defender, he is doing an unbelievable amount of work. He is essentially playing as a key defender, spending 94% time on ground, and is also being expected to provide a major option and play as a major attacking option as well. He's in the top echelon of players spending time on ground but is being required to do so much more work than a key defender should do in providing an option, kicking the ball, taking marks. He's almost getting twice the disposals of most other key defenders. It's no wonder he looks out on his feet so often and struggles to get back when we turn it over so often.

Just imagine you're playing as a key defender in a team that turns the ball over in such horrible, damaging positions and you're already doing so much work in trying to get forward then the ball is turned over at the arcs and you're expected to get back just as hard to play a role on a bloke who is taller and heavier than you.

 

[AussieToffee15]

Sicily is setting standards.

As a key defender, he is doing an unbelievable amount of work. He is essentially playing as a key defender, spending 94% time on ground, and is also being expected to provide a major option and play as a major attacking option as well. He's in the top echelon of players spending time on ground but is being required to do so much more work than a key defender should do in providing an option, kicking the ball, taking marks. He's almost getting twice the disposals of most other key defenders. It's no wonder he looks out on his feet so often and struggles to get back when we turn it over so often.

Just imagine you're playing as a key defender in a team that turns the ball over in such horrible, damaging positions and you're already doing so much work in trying to get forward then the ball is turned over at the arcs and you're expected to get back just as hard to play a role on a bloke who is taller and heavier than you.

Is setting standards giving away 50m penalties and attacking contests with limited energy and intensity?

Is setting standards bagging your Club's major sponsor?

I don't think he has had a good 2-3 weeks on the standards front. I anticipate that this will be rectified, and in fairness, I think his second half at the weekend was excellent, but I think it is hard to argue that he has been setting the standards the last couple of weeks.

I love the bloke and think he is a star, but that doesn't make him immune to criticism.

 

[SSSSSS]

I agree with the match up point. He would be better suited as the third tall.

I'd really like to give Kosi 3-4 weeks at Box Hill in the full back role. Initially recruited in that position, and his intensity and effort is always there, he just doesn't have the hands to do it in the forward line.

There is a reason why Kosi was shifted to the forward line.

 

[KermitJagger]

Is setting standards giving away 50m penalties and attacking contests with limited energy and intensity?

Is setting standards bagging your Club's major sponsor?

I don't think he has had a good 2-3 weeks on the standards front. I anticipate that this will be rectified, and in fairness, I think his second half at the weekend was excellent, but I think it is hard to argue that he has been setting the standards the last couple of weeks.

I love the bloke and think he is a star, but that doesn't make him immune to criticism.

It's funny, when things are going poorly for the team then those things that go wrong seem so much worse. I've explained why Sicily might have issues in attacking contests given how much work he's doing, but in terms of the 50m penalties, almost every player does that. You'd prefer that they didn't but I can't imagine anyone would really care if things were going better.

Do we have such short memories? Luke Hodge breaking Murphy's jaw, drink driving, Lewis clotheslining Goldstein, Sam Mitchell doing the jab to Essendon or kneeing players - is that setting the standard? Nope, it isn't at all. Difference is we were a much better team when those things were happening.

Perfectly fair to criticise him, but undue criticism that calls the entire choice of captaincy into question is a potentially a bit far.

 

[SSSSSS]

It's funny, when things are going poorly for the team then those things that go wrong seem so much worse. I've explained why Sicily might have issues in attacking contests given how much work he's doing, but in terms of the 50m penalties, almost every player does that. You'd prefer that they didn't but I can't imagine anyone would really care if things were going better.

Do we have such short memories? Luke Hodge breaking Murphy's jaw, drink driving, Lewis clotheslining Goldstein, Sam Mitchell doing the jab to Essendon or kneeing players - is that setting the standard? Nope, it isn't at all. Difference is we were a much better team when those things were happening.

Perfectly fair to criticise him, but undue criticism that calls the entire choice of captaincy into question is a potentially a bit far.

One of those things is not like the other. Hodge on Murphy was unfortunate but he had eyes only for the ball.

 

[hawkman]

Sicily is setting standards.

As a key defender, he is doing an unbelievable amount of work. He is essentially playing as a key defender, spending 94% time on ground, and is also being expected to provide a major option and play as a major attacking option as well. He's in the top echelon of players spending time on ground but is being required to do so much more work than a key defender should do in providing an option, kicking the ball, taking marks. He's almost getting twice the disposals of most other key defenders. It's no wonder he looks out on his feet so often and struggles to get back when we turn it over so often.

Just imagine you're playing as a key defender in a team that turns the ball over in such horrible, damaging positions and you're already doing so much work in trying to get forward then the ball is turned over at the arcs and you're expected to get back just as hard to play a role on a bloke who is taller and heavier than you.

My problem is that the standard he set early was poor. The 2nd behind of the game that Chandler marked was one that Sicily just jogged back to cover space. If he makes a full effort he covers that easily. Hardwick from the behind decides to hit a bullet pass that goes straight to Petracca. Knew it was going to a long game when senior players are doing that early

 

[KermitJagger]

One of those things is not like the other. Hodge on Murphy was unfortunate but he had eyes only for the ball.

I didn't want to double up on Goldstein

 

[hawkman]

I didn't want to double up on Goldstein

Could have used Hodge's forearm on Swallow in the same match as one of Lewis' clockings of Goldstein

 

[AussieToffee15]

It's funny, when things are going poorly for the team then those things that go wrong seem so much worse. I've explained why Sicily might have issues in attacking contests given how much work he's doing, but in terms of the 50m penalties, almost every player does that. You'd prefer that they didn't but I can't imagine anyone would really care if things were going better.

Do we have such short memories? Luke Hodge breaking Murphy's jaw, drink driving, Lewis clotheslining Goldstein, Sam Mitchell doing the jab to Essendon or kneeing players - is that setting the standard? Nope, it isn't at all. Difference is we were a much better team when those things were happening.

Perfectly fair to criticise him, but undue criticism that calls the entire choice of captaincy into question is a potentially a bit far.

Don’t take me out of context, I’ve never question the decision for him to be captain.

He just should be doing better.

 

[Jables]

Sicily probably has the single toughest job in the AFL, hardest side to captain and the hardest side to play in as a KPD. I am profoundly uninterested in discussion about his body language look bad in such and such replay, or whether he should be screaming more at a bunch of kids considering a 3 peat player in Shiels got a lot of flak for doing that last year, Hodge was an excellent captain that got gift wrapped a dynasty capable team but don't tell me with a straight face that he would be smelling like roses right now.

Fact of the matter is he's setting a higher standard on the field that few players are coming close to, and off the field none of us have a clue. He is doing a good job.

 

[SSSSSS]

Sicily probably has the single toughest job in the AFL, hardest side to captain and the hardest side to play in as a KPD. I am profoundly uninterested in discussion about his body language look bad in such and such replay, or whether he should be screaming more at a bunch of kids considering a 3 peat player in Shiels got a lot of flak for doing that last year, Hodge was an excellent captain that got gift wrapped a dynasty capable team but don't tell me with a straight face that he would be smelling like roses right now.

Fact of the matter is he's setting a higher standard on the field that few players are coming close to, and off the field none of us have a clue. He is doing a good job.

We've been spoilt for choice with Mitchell, Hodge, Roughy and BigBoy. Comfortably better than Stratts as a captain. Gee that was a bit of a left field choice.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Snagged coaches votes.

 

[MrPremiership]

The young players are tight and the club is holding up well against a lot of external issues (Racism investigation, tanking allegations, being 1-8).
I would say a lot of credit would need to go to Sicily and what he's doing off-field

 

[Dipper]

Funnily enough, Sic hasn't lost a 1:1 since the North game.

In the game at the weekend Dunstall on the commentary made a big thing of Fritsch out marking Sicily and saying that it was the first marking contest Sicily had had a mark taken on him all year, which is obviously very impressive.

Doesn't that now show up as losing a 1:1?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Respectfully disagree, he was awful in the first half. His job is to set the tempo and effort levels, he failed on that front. There was a particular piece of play in the second quarter where he refused to engage and simply just corralled - he then slowly tracked back as his man sprinted into the forward 50. Not good enough - the captain should be ferocious in that circumstance to help lift his energyless side.

DE can be a very misleading stat - can you provide me an example of him kicking long to release us, majority of it was sideways kicking, yet I remember in the third quarter him costing us a goal as he turned he ball over at CHB when he over handballed instead of kicking. This was at a crucial point when we had momentum.

I also distinctly remember Day being out in a big way across CHB in the second quarter and Sicily ignored him - it was a long kick that he would normally take.

My heightened sensitivity with him is because he is now the Captain, and as such he needs to be held to a higher standard. In my view, over the course of the last 2-3 weeks he hasn't been fulfilling his duties both with his leadership on field (namely his energy levels and leading by example) and his Tasmania comments. In fairness, he did improve in the second half, but that should be his non-negotiable standard.

It may be unpopular, but it needed to be said.

Think your first point has been answered by a fellow poster quite well already.

I do remember that play, he took the inboard kick and nailed it, he then followed up and got the hands and wasn’t really in the best position to kick. His handball wasn’t great either, but his attacking kick started it and it was mentioned often throughout the broadcast.

There’s a few kicks and one I have saved but can’t post due to being on my phone and the internet/file size.

Don’t remember that in particular so can’t comment.

His Tasmania comments have been well documented, and myself I don’t see the issue with it, never really thought it was badgering the club sponsor or in a rude way at all or in a down way.

And in terms of effort and all that it’s been pretty well answered by another poster who did an awesome job of explaining it.

It’s unpopular and in mine and others opinion wrong.